CHA-LEE Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Rant mode on….. I have been to a lot of major matches as well as ROed a fair share myself. One thing that drives me crazy while attending a major match is when an RO is validating that the targets are taped and stage is reset, they see an untapped target and simply stand next to it pointing at the target then proceed to yell at the squad to come and tape the target. I understand that it’s the squads responsibility to reset the stage and tape all of the targets, but it’s pretty wasteful to stop the whole show so a shooter can run down range and tape a target that the RO is standing only a few feet from. Don’t get me wrong, when this happens I am usually the first guy to run down range and tape the target to get it taken care of. But I also ask the RO why they don’t have some pasters in their pocket to tape the random missed target in order to keep the stage running as efficiently as possible. You can always verbally reprimand the squad for missing targets to tape as you are walking back up range. But when I ask them about this and offer the suggestion this usually results in some kind of indignant or bitter response from the RO, which I think is uncalled for. I don’t understand the RO’s resistance in simply taping a missed target here or there when it happens verses wasting more time in badgering the squad and waiting for someone else to tape it. When I RO or CRO at a major match I always keep some pasters in my pocket and tell my fellow stage RO’s to do the same. That way we can keep the stage running as smoothly and quickly as possible. I don’t have a problem cracking the whip on the squad if they start getting lazy in taping or resetting, but that can always be done in conjunction with the normal resetting process of the stage. There is no need to make it a show stopping drama event that wastes time for everyone. Rant mode off….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 sounds a little uppity to me. din't ask your help to clean the toilet till they see you will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent1k1 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I do the same thing as Cha-Lee. Keep a couple extra in my pocket for ERRANT missed targets and bitch at the squad on my way back. The 2nd time I have to do that for the same squad, I bitch louder at them. The 3rd time they miss the same target, I stand there and wait. I'm a jerk though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I more or less agree with you, but I don't care enough to rant about it. For sure my mom never cleaned up my mess while telling me I should clean up my mess. What would I learn from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 The way I see it, when I am an RO/CRO for a major match, one of my primary duties is to push the squads through my stage as effective and efficiently as possible. Standing next to an untaped target, whining about it to the squad and waiting 2+ minutes for someone else to tape it is a waste of time that I am not willing to do. I can easily tape the missed target immediately and keep the squad churning through the stage on schedule. Is it really going out of your way to tape the target when you are standing right next to it pointing at it? I think not. But then again I am usually the guy who is taping targets for other squads when my squad log jams up behind the one in front of us, or taping targets / resetting steel for the RO's while they are shooting the match while I am there checking out the stages the day before the match. So I guess I am setting the standard of being an uppity prick....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I don't carry pasters.....why? Because I'm not shooting. The people shooting paste and reset steel. Also paint the steel. Question, if you carry pasters, do you paint or reset steel also? Or a drop Turner or clam shell? The squad know what's expected, it's up to them to do it. Sorry, but I see a door opening to being taken advantage of if it's known that I'll just clean up the mess for them. Just my opinion and what I do. But I do paste and help other squads when doing walkthroughs or for RO shoot day. Just not when I have the timer. Edited March 12, 2015 by whitedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I have noticed that there are more than a few power hungry individuals that like to hold the timer. They managed to break off a piece of the world where they can boss people around and they push that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 In the scenario described by cha Lee where there are rotating squads I think his way is ok as u won't be dealing with the when they are gone. At a club match I would not tape or set if I was the RO. The squad should be doing it unless its a real small squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 As an RO, I do try to keep a few pasters in my pocket for such eventualities. If missed targets become a habit for the squad, or if I am out of pasters, I have no qualms about calling someone over to help. Not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Wow, I'm sort of shocked at some of the responses here. I agree with Charlie and I do the same things. Like he said, your job is not to just hold a timer or scorepad, it's also to keep the match flow going. What is it hurting you to put a paster on here or there? If you volunteer to work a stage, then work it. One thing RM/MDs worry about the most is match flow at major matches. If you are not assisting with this, you are part of the problem. You probably won't be invited back and it causes several other downstream issues. Come on guys, just help keep things going and then remind the squad that you need more help. That's one thing you won't have to worry about at most SC Sectional matches, we have enough good volunteers to reset the stage and shooters are only requested to help on rare occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages I suspect this would cost more than "a little" more. Consider a major match: 3 day match 12 hour days 14 stages 5 resetters per stage $10/hour + match shirt + 3 x lunches Figure on adding $25-30K to the cost of running the match. With,say, 250 paying shooters (excluding staff and sponsored shooters), this would add another ~$100 to your match fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMXRACER Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I tape,reset.pick up targets,fix crap--whatever it takes to make stuff happen. Just part of the game shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages I've always wondered why we don't have the Boy Scouts come out on match day for a fund raiser. Everyone chip in $5 and they could walk out of there with at least $250 for their club for 4 hours work.At least at my local matches. And the ranges are in different counties so the local Troop would only have to do it once a month. But I'm lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I always have a bit of tape on me, even as a CRO. I'll even sometimes tape the last few targets I score (after the shooter has reviewed them) and/or set steel to hurry things along. Personally if you refuse to tape a target because "that's the squad's responsibility," you're just being a pompous ass. No offense, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 As a CRO or RO carry a few pasters. In case a person pasting runs out or misses a target, go help out. Enjoy the day and the shooters. Part of why we enjoy doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages I've always wondered why we don't have the Boy Scouts come out on match day for a fund raiser. Everyone chip in $5 and they could walk out of there with at least $250 for their club for 4 hours work.At least at my local matches. And the ranges are in different counties so the local Troop would only have to do it once a month. But I'm lazy. I have seen Boy Scouts used for taping and resetting before at major matches. Unfortunately I also seen a record number of reshoots due to prematurely taped targets at these matches. The Boy Scouts mean well but without really knowing the process or flow of how a stage should run it has a lot higher probability of getting screwed up. Plus that is a pretty boring thing for these young men to do all day long. I would rather pay extra to NOT have someone screw up my stage run by prematurely taping targets and it flushes my run down the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Rant mode on….. I have been to a lot of major matches as well as ROed a fair share myself. One thing that drives me crazy while attending a major match is when an RO is validating that the targets are taped and stage is reset, they see an untapped target and simply stand next to it pointing at the target then proceed to yell at the squad to come and tape the target. I understand that it’s the squads responsibility to reset the stage and tape all of the targets, but it’s pretty wasteful to stop the whole show so a shooter can run down range and tape a target that the RO is standing only a few feet from. Don’t get me wrong, when this happens I am usually the first guy to run down range and tape the target to get it taken care of. But I also ask the RO why they don’t have some pasters in their pocket to tape the random missed target in order to keep the stage running as efficiently as possible. You can always verbally reprimand the squad for missing targets to tape as you are walking back up range. But when I ask them about this and offer the suggestion this usually results in some kind of indignant or bitter response from the RO, which I think is uncalled for. I don’t understand the RO’s resistance in simply taping a missed target here or there when it happens verses wasting more time in badgering the squad and waiting for someone else to tape it. When I RO or CRO at a major match I always keep some pasters in my pocket and tell my fellow stage RO’s to do the same. That way we can keep the stage running as smoothly and quickly as possible. I don’t have a problem cracking the whip on the squad if they start getting lazy in taping or resetting, but that can always be done in conjunction with the normal resetting process of the stage. There is no need to make it a show stopping drama event that wastes time for everyone. Rant mode off….. You really need to shoot the Mass Classic. http://monsonactionshooters.com/ Bring your chair, ROs do all the taping and resetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 WOW! I guess I'm an uppity bastard but i don't carry pasters. The match moves along just fine. No, I'm not power hungry in my little part of the world but there are generally 15 or so shooters and only one of me. Give an inch......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages I've always wondered why we don't have the Boy Scouts come out on match day for a fund raiser. Everyone chip in $5 and they could walk out of there with at least $250 for their club for 4 hours work.At least at my local matches. And the ranges are in different counties so the local Troop would only have to do it once a month. But I'm lazy. I have seen Boy Scouts used for taping and resetting before at major matches. Unfortunately I also seen a record number of reshoots due to prematurely taped targets at these matches. The Boy Scouts mean well but without really knowing the process or flow of how a stage should run it has a lot higher probability of getting screwed up. Plus that is a pretty boring thing for these young men to do all day long. I would rather pay extra to NOT have someone screw up my stage run by prematurely taping targets and it flushes my run down the toilet. We tried to get boy scouts involved at our sectional and they were basically a bunch of lazy money grubbers. They could sell the hell out of some drinks, but work?. No. Besides, there leadership didn't want them exposed to lead so they actually stayed away from the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Some squads are just plain lazy. The majority are great though. I carry pasters and set and paint steel and only yell for tape if I've run out. We had one squad where a lady that appeared to be in her sixties set the steel all but when she was on deck or shooting. The young guns just walked by it and let her do it so I helped her as I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I agree with CHA-LEE, but there are bad apple ROs and shooters alike. We "mostly" do this for fun and if you let the idiots get in your head, they win. I just today sent a PM to a friend and told him he needed to shoot every match i am running this year because he has such a great attitude. After dealing with a "bleep" head, I go find him chat about his match and in about 3 minutes, my head is back on straight and the smile returns to my face. If it was not for all the great people, I would have long ago stopped working matches. I don't do it for the bad ones, but for the vast majority of the good people in these sports. As for volunteers, I tired a church youth group, a 4H group and a scout group, all were failures. I made one last attempt last year at Noveske and it was a smashing success. We have new shooters, happy competitors and a baseball team that raised enough money to pay for almost all of their Tournaments for the year. If you want re-set help for a match, find a competitive sports team in your area and see if they will work out. I might just have gotten lucky too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 If you want re-set help for a match, find a competitive sports team in your area and see if they will work out. Excellent idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) and this is why I would be happy to pay a little more to have a crew of people paste and reset stages I've always wondered why we don't have the Boy Scouts come out on match day for a fund raiser. Everyone chip in $5 and they could walk out of there with at least $250 for their club for 4 hours work.At least at my local matches. And the ranges are in different counties so the local Troop would only have to do it once a month. But I'm lazy. I have seen Boy Scouts used for taping and resetting before at major matches. Unfortunately I also seen a record number of reshoots due to prematurely taped targets at these matches. The Boy Scouts mean well but without really knowing the process or flow of how a stage should run it has a lot higher probability of getting screwed up. Plus that is a pretty boring thing for these young men to do all day long. I would rather pay extra to NOT have someone screw up my stage run by prematurely taping targets and it flushes my run down the toilet. I tend to agree. It's tough for someone who doesn't know how to shoot to pick up how to reset a stage efficiently, so it can be somewhat of a liability. Partially related, if you're going to get a squad done in a multigun match, the RO(s) simply cannot try to use making a squaddie hoof it downrange and back to tape up an errant target as a punitive measure. Crack the whip, sure, but keep some tape on the handle at all times. Edited March 13, 2015 by thermobollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I never carry tape, rarely paint or set steel when ROing at a major. If a target doesn't get tape I simply say, "hey can someone get that target real quick." I'm not a dick about, but generally have plenty to do without adding pasting targets to the list. When I've RO'ed majors we generally run 3 minutes a shooter because we keep thing moving, precisely because I don't tape, paint, ect. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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