MarkCO Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 "You will never soar with Eagles if you enjoy strutting with Turkeys" Sir, I must ask you what you mean by this quote, whom it was directed, and specifically the post it was pertaining to. Remember that not many people are as clever as you are, certainly not me. This smacks of something that would be at the bottom of a pithy motivational poster in a break room somewhere. Possibly with a picture of majestic eagle soaring over a mountain lake. Or a Butterball fresh from the oven. Not directed at anyone specifically, but was a saying an older, long since passed friend of mine used. He used it to mean setting your goals high, follow examples of integrity and honor. OTOH, if you are content to wallow around trying to look better than the next guy, you won't amount to much. It really is about what you focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thank you for the clarification. I will again refrain from commenting further, sorry for the interruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanniek71 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 "You will never soar with Eagles if you enjoy strutting with Turkeys" Sir, I must ask you what you mean by this quote, whom it was directed, and specifically the post it was pertaining to. Remember that not many people are as clever as you are, certainly not me. This smacks of something that would be at the bottom of a pithy motivational poster in a break room somewhere. Possibly with a picture of majestic eagle soaring over a mountain lake. Or a Butterball fresh from the oven. Not directed at anyone specifically, but was a saying an older, long since passed friend of mine used. He used it to mean setting your goals high, follow examples of integrity and honor. OTOH, if you are content to wallow around trying to look better than the next guy, you won't amount to much. It really is about what you focus on. In layman's terms its an old saying that has the gist of if you hang out with a**holes you inevitably become one, if you hang out with people that have higher standards you will inevitably become one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I just read all of these posts again. Pretty solid primary case. I don't think Chuck Anderson is the guy who should be doing this. The issue bothering a lot of people is the beneficiaries and co-conspirators, if there are any. That information is normally gotten by shoe leather work, interviewing all these people and testing their veracity and story. That would take a team of at least two, some travel money, and a few weeks. I'm not saying Chuck can't do it, it is that I think he is still working full time at his normal job and would not have the time or resources to devote to this. This is a very significant issue for USPSA, not just Area 6, and if the truth is not uncovered now, it will be at some future time, when it could come back to haunt this sport. I am appalled at the shooting of the messenger posturing by some of those in positions of authority. That creates an immediate reaction against all authority and a tendency to then mistrust anything the President of USPSA might or might not do. I would like to commend the Doodie Project for their role in bringing this to light. I am not understanding why John Amidon did not take ownership of this immediately, it clearly falls under the bailiwick of NROI. There are enough retired investigators familiar enough with IPSC shooting, in our ranks and without, that could do this investigation properly. Yes, it would cost money. But without the truth, this sport will be tainted for a long time, without relief. Our credibility is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I just read all of these posts again. Pretty solid primary case. I don't think Chuck Anderson is the guy who should be doing this. The issue bothering a lot of people is the beneficiaries and co-conspirators, if there are any. That information is normally gotten by shoe leather work, interviewing all these people and testing their veracity and story. That would take a team of at least two, some travel money, and a few weeks. I'm not saying Chuck can't do it, it is that I think he is still working full time at his normal job and would not have the time or resources to devote to this. This is a very significant issue for USPSA, not just Area 6, and if the truth is not uncovered now, it will be at some future time, when it could come back to haunt this sport. I am appalled at the shooting of the messenger posturing by some of those in positions of authority. That creates an immediate reaction against all authority and a tendency to then mistrust anything the President of USPSA might or might not do. I would like to commend the Doodie Project for their role in bringing this to light. I am not understanding why John Amidon did not take ownership of this immediately, it clearly falls under the bailiwick of NROI. There are enough retired investigators familiar enough with IPSC shooting, in our ranks and without, that could do this investigation properly. Yes, it would cost money. But without the truth, this sport will be tainted for a long time, without relief. Our credibility is on the line. +10 on amidon. where has he been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 RammerJammer I am from Area 6 go back and read my posts. I have certainly voiced my opinion as an Area 6 member as to what should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I am a fan of civility in civil company. I try to avoid snide comments like "comprehension is key" so i dont look like an arrogant jerk. However, there are those who deserve no civility. There are acts that require condemnation. Loud condemnation. This is not someone who flipped and caught a round at ulsc. I would suggest that you can condemn while remaining civil...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Since the events being questioned were those of a RO, acting in the capacity of an RO at a sanctioned match any and all review should fall under the responsibility of NROI. Once a determination has been made they should be forwarded to the President who in turn should present them to the BOD along with his recommendation for resolution. The BOD makes a decision and the prescribed actions, if any, are put into effect by the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 IIRC, Chuck is a TRAINED investigator. Is John A? Chuck is also well outside Area 6, so there is VERY little chance anyone could claim a conflict of interest. Unless someone wants to claim since he is/was in the LEO field he would sympathize with PVH, a former LEO. I also believe if the BoD hadn't quickly gotten an investigation underway, USPSA members, especially from A6, would have been screaming even louder (if that is possible) about a coverup, BoD failure, etc. I think the BoD did good by appointing Chuck, even though he volunteered for the assignment. I don't know him well, only being on an arb committee with him once. But he was no-nonsense then and I have no doubt will be no-nonsense now. I REALLY hope the BoD makes his report public once they act on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I just read all of these posts again. Pretty solid primary case. I don't think Chuck Anderson is the guy who should be doing this. The issue bothering a lot of people is the beneficiaries and co-conspirators, if there are any. That information is normally gotten by shoe leather work, interviewing all these people and testing their veracity and story. That would take a team of at least two, some travel money, and a few weeks. I'm not saying Chuck can't do it, it is that I think he is still working full time at his normal job and would not have the time or resources to devote to this. This is a very significant issue for USPSA, not just Area 6, and if the truth is not uncovered now, it will be at some future time, when it could come back to haunt this sport. I am appalled at the shooting of the messenger posturing by some of those in positions of authority. That creates an immediate reaction against all authority and a tendency to then mistrust anything the President of USPSA might or might not do. I would like to commend the Doodie Project for their role in bringing this to light. I am not understanding why John Amidon did not take ownership of this immediately, it clearly falls under the bailiwick of NROI. There are enough retired investigators familiar enough with IPSC shooting, in our ranks and without, that could do this investigation properly. Yes, it would cost money. But without the truth, this sport will be tainted for a long time, without relief. Our credibility is on the line. +10 on amidon. where has he been? I was informed that Mr Amidon may not be around much longer and his non-involvement in the investigation may be due to waining "mental faculties". This is not to disparage Mr Amidon, but bring to light a reason that he may not be as involved as he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I just read all of these posts again. Pretty solid primary case. I don't think Chuck Anderson is the guy who should be doing this. The issue bothering a lot of people is the beneficiaries and co-conspirators, if there are any. That information is normally gotten by shoe leather work, interviewing all these people and testing their veracity and story. That would take a team of at least two, some travel money, and a few weeks. I'm not saying Chuck can't do it, it is that I think he is still working full time at his normal job and would not have the time or resources to devote to this. This is a very significant issue for USPSA, not just Area 6, and if the truth is not uncovered now, it will be at some future time, when it could come back to haunt this sport. I am appalled at the shooting of the messenger posturing by some of those in positions of authority. That creates an immediate reaction against all authority and a tendency to then mistrust anything the President of USPSA might or might not do. I would like to commend the Doodie Project for their role in bringing this to light. I am not understanding why John Amidon did not take ownership of this immediately, it clearly falls under the bailiwick of NROI. There are enough retired investigators familiar enough with IPSC shooting, in our ranks and without, that could do this investigation properly. Yes, it would cost money. But without the truth, this sport will be tainted for a long time, without relief. Our credibility is on the line. +10 on amidon. where has he been? I was informed that Mr Amidon may not be around much longer and his non-involvement in the investigation may be due to waining "mental faculties". This is not to disparage Mr Amidon, but bring to light a reason that he may not be as involved as he should. Don't know about all of that but I did hear he may be retiring this fall? Couple that with the number of impending BOD member changes and we just might be looking at a significant difference in the way some things get handled in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCringleberry Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 IIRC, Chuck is a TRAINED investigator. Is John A? Chuck is also well outside Area 6, so there is VERY little chance anyone could claim a conflict of interest. Unless someone wants to claim since he is/was in the LEO field he would sympathize with PVH, a former LEO. I also believe if the BoD hadn't quickly gotten an investigation underway, USPSA members, especially from A6, would have been screaming even louder (if that is possible) about a coverup, BoD failure, etc. I think the BoD did good by appointing Chuck, even though he volunteered for the assignment. I don't know him well, only being on an arb committee with him once. But he was no-nonsense then and I have no doubt will be no-nonsense now. I REALLY hope the BoD makes his report public once they act on it. +1...very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everyone is screaming about how "slow" the investigation seemed to have gotten started. But I know that after several days of internet chatter, I was still seeing posts that said no formal complaint had been made and giving links to the proper place to do so. Seems like we may all have to bear some blame in a "slow" start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everyone is screaming about how "slow" the investigation seemed to have gotten started. But I know that after several days of internet chatter, I was still seeing posts that said no formal complaint had been made and giving links to the proper place to do so. Seems like we may all have to bear some blame in a "slow" start. i think people just want instant gratification. Investigations aren't like playing video games. They take time. I'm pretty impressed with how fast this has all been handled so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I also believe if the BoD hadn't quickly gotten an investigation underway, USPSA members, especially from A6, would have been screaming even louder (if that is possible) about a coverup, BoD failure, etc. Based solely on the posts from Area 6 FB page the vocal majority there have been from people outside of area 6 to include discussion started by non-USPSA members. Chuck has been on the Area 6 page asking for information and providing status updates as he is able. I think the investigation report needs to be made public as well. Numerous shooters have been named as receiving +2 or -2 treatment and if the report finds no wrong doing on their part or if it does find wrong doing then we, as members of the organization, should be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) This is an investigation that will require questioning and likely re-questioning of a variety of individuals. This will all take some time. Not everything can be resolved to provide near instant gratification. Look how long the powers that be have been trying to find the missing IRS emails. Give Chuck the respect, assistance if you can and time that he is due. Edited June 26, 2014 by XD Niner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everyone is screaming about how "slow" the investigation seemed to have gotten started. But I know that after several days of internet chatter, I was still seeing posts that said no formal complaint had been made and giving links to the proper place to do so. Seems like we may all have to bear some blame in a "slow" start. From what I can tell, Troy said the BOD and HQ knew about the allegations a couple of days before it hit Doodie/The Web. If this is true, did they ask for investigation volunteers from the beginning, or only after it came out on the web? Furthermore, did they aske for a volunteer to investigate or did Chuck speak up and say he would look into it? I do not have FB, so I can't see whats on A6 or the other pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203936956645639&set=gm.10152287438429315&type=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaycwebb Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Not entirely unexpected; The lifetime ban is appropriate, suspicions that others knew about it, are easy to voice but much harder to prove and we should always give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Hopefully the punishment here will act as a deterrent should anyone else get the idea that cheating is an acceptable practice. Perhaps now we can move forward and put this mess behind us, I'm sure there are many of us that are saddened by the whole experience but we are a little wiser too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Perhaps now we can move forward and put this mess behind us, Not quite yet. Where is the original letter? I don't see it on uspsa.org and I didn't get an email. Is this going to be mailed to the membership? Published in frontsight? Did the AD's get it to forward to their areas? Written yesterday so it should be posted somewhere more official than area 6 FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, I am not liking how the means of communications have been on FB and Doodie. Not official in the least. Borderline "close our eyes and hope it goes away". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, I am not liking how the means of communications have been on FB and Doodie. Not official in the least. Borderline "close our eyes and hope it goes away". Borderline, haha, funny.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 IBFNTT (In Before Flex Nukes This Thread) You can't discuss real USPSA issues here. Go to The Doodie Project. Bwaaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/06/27/letter-from-uspsa-president-phil-strader-on-the-paul-hendrix-cheating-scandal/ Edited June 27, 2014 by Solvability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now