Classifiers and 6/8 shot

[Flexmoney]

Good grief.

As Area 5 Director...and a guy with a vote on whether we got 8-minor or not.... I never heard from Jerry, nor heard anything 2nd hand from Jerry. I never heard any of the other BOD members say that "Jerry said..."

Lets get off Jerry. He has been a great champion and representative for all of shooting sports. He doesn't deserve to be rumor milled.

This thread is about classifiers and 8-shot.

[PatJones]

Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway.

I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options.

If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.

If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?

[wheelie]

Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway.

I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options.

If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.

If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?

It'd be much like Production:

"maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine"

So even though your box-stock Master Blaster XTQ holds 15 or 17 or 19, you can only load 10 to compete in Production division. Its an artificial restriction to level the playing field so everyone who shoots has an equal chance at least as far as the number of rounds.

But for revolvers, its only for the Classifiers.

The 8 shooter revolvers still get to load 8 for the other stages.

Or only fire 6. Either way.

Classifiers -- revolvers load 6.

Then nothing that is happening now has to change.

Every other person who plays this game can continue doing so without interruption.

We don't have to discard any Classfiers.

Its easy.

Edited January 18, 2014 by wheelie

[PatJones]

Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway.

I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options.

If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.

If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?

It'd much like Production:

"maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine"

So even though your box-stock Master Blaster XTQ holds 15 or 17 or 19, you can only load 10 to compete in Production division. Its an artificial restriction to level the playing field so everyone who shoots has an equal chance at least as far as the number of rounds.

But for revolvers, its only for the Classifiers.

The 8 shooter revolvers still get to load 8 for the other stages.

Or only fire 6. Either way.

Classifiers -- revolvers load 6.

Then nothing that is happening now has to change.

Every other person who plays this game can continue doing so without interruption.

We don't have to discard any Classfiers.

Its easy.

I think expecting someone to click through 2 empty chambers after the reload is a bit unreasonable.

[ChrisC]

I can shoot open with my ICORE revolver. Doesn't mean its a great idea but I can

[ZackJones]

If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.

If we delete I'm sure there will eventually be new ones to replace the deleted ones.

[PatJones]

Flexmoney, when would the BOD make their decision on the classifiers.

[ChrisC]

According to the minutes they have till the end of the month.

[Forrest Halley]

Load only six? Everyone take cover...blue barrels and fishing vests are sure to rain from the sky....

In seriousness, the HHF will have to be set by the GMs with 8 shots and then everyone else just measure off of that. What would be really nice is if they preserved the HHF six after creating HHF eight. This way you could still measure up no matter what you were shooting. Sounds like the easiest way no to ruffle too many feathers and create too much of an equipment race. Why not also put an 8 or 6 after your name on the score sheet at the local levels? It's all in good fun there and then you can measure up better.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Forrest Halley

[Racinready300ex]

When will this be decided? The end of the month is 10 days away. And where will it be posted as to what is decided?

I plan to shoot a classifier match on the 9th with a 8 shot gun. I bet the club has already picked out what stages they will do.

[Carmoney]

My recommendation: Just shoot the classifier stages like you would shoot stages in any other match, and don't worry about it.

Focus on improving to the point where you are a contender to win the division at every match you attend. That is what matters.

[Poppa Bear]

Modify the revolver rules for classifiers so that they are reload as needed. That way the 8 and 8 classifiers are 6 reload 6 reload 4 for the 6 shot and 8 reload 8 for the 8 shot. The major and minor scoring will pretty well balance out the extra reload required by the 6 shooters.

[Tom E]

Modify the revolver rules for classifiers so that they are reload as needed.

+1

See post #86.

[D.carden]

I've been off the grid for a few years, and just getting a glimpse of the division change here and the so called 'issues' between the 6 vs 8..... At this point I'd say leave the classifiers alone and let it ride for a while to see what happens... But, i can tell you this, i'd pull out the 8 shot everyday of the week if i were going against 6 shooters. Mostly because of 'certain' classifiers (matches could be different).... My highest Major Match Classifier score was Area 5 in 2006 shooting 03-03 (Take em Down).. With no points down i got 94.28%... Shooting it again with an 8 shot without doing a standing reload at the rear barricade would have been a higher HF... Another that comes to mind is 03-05 Paper Poppers (comstock). Again, 8 shot advantage. If you miss a steel, it's a quick make-up shot, not so with a 6 shooter.... I'll take the added .18 split over a 2sec reload anyday.... It'll be interesting either way to see where this goes..!!!

Edited January 21, 2014 by D.carden

[Racinready300ex]

So I just found out the classifier coming up I signed up for and plan to shoot with a 8 shot gun. 4 of the 6 stages are in the 8 shot advantage list. So if everything stays the same, I may get classified above my ability, awesome.

[seanc]

So I just found out the classifier coming up I signed up for and plan to shoot with a 8 shot gun. 4 of the 6 stages are in the 8 shot advantage list. So if everything stays the same, I may get classified above my ability, awesome.

Its a bad expirement, but you should ask the MD if you can shoot them with both guns. second for no score, for science...

[mwx40x40]

I am assuming this, so , well all know what happens when you assume. My guess is that there are more six shot revolvers out there than eight shot. So I am curious to see if this change we have made in the sport will help revolver division or hurt it. I guess time will tell the tale.

[Racinready300ex]

I am assuming this, so , well all know what happens when you assume. My guess is that there are more six shot revolvers out there than eight shot. So I am curious to see if this change we have made in the sport will help revolver division or hurt it. I guess time will tell the tale.

I think it will help, or a least I hope it does. But they need to work out the kinks

[pskys2]

So I just found out the classifier coming up I signed up for and plan to shoot with a 8 shot gun. 4 of the 6 stages are in the 8 shot advantage list. So if everything stays the same, I may get classified above my ability, awesome.

Is it after Feb 1? Can only shoot 6 until then. My guess if it's after Feb 1 and they use 8 shot classifiers they may find it for naught if the BOD removes them.

[Racinready300ex]

So I just found out the classifier coming up I signed up for and plan to shoot with a 8 shot gun. 4 of the 6 stages are in the 8 shot advantage list. So if everything stays the same, I may get classified above my ability, awesome.

Is it after Feb 1? Can only shoot 6 until then. My guess if it's after Feb 1 and they use 8 shot classifiers they may find it for naught if the BOD removes them.

Yeah, the shoot isn't until the 23

[Carmoney]

So I just found out the classifier coming up I signed up for and plan to shoot with a 8 shot gun. 4 of the 6 stages are in the 8 shot advantage list. So if everything stays the same, I may get classified above my ability, awesome.

Trust me, there are plenty of people who are classified above their ability in Revolver Division, so you'll fit right in. The HHFs they have put in place for Revo vary widely across the different generations of classifers. It really doesn't matter for Revo Division what your class is--at least not until we have enough people playing to actually have real competition at the different class levels--but it can certainly affect your competitive opportunities in the other divisions if you grandbag in Revo (whether intentionally or otherwise).

If you're seriously concerned, reload every six shots.

[pskys2]

I've been told that many of the older classifiers had the Revolver HHF set as a percentage of some other Division. Seems there was also a series that were set a bit low.

But your Class can actually mean something at say the 2014 Revo Nationals!!!

I've known a few shooters in other Divisions who picked out certain Classifiers to get up to GM/M. Known some who would deliberately tank them also.

I don't know of anyone in Revolver who has done it, but it could have been, human nature being what it is.

Have you tried contacting the club and mentioning that the BOD is considering removing 8 shot classifiers, would be bad for everyone, not just Revolver Division, if that happens and your club members thought they were getting classified and in fact wouldn't be.

[MWP]

Trust me, there are plenty of people who are classified above their ability in Revolver Division, so you'll fit right in. The HHFs they have put in place for Revo vary widely across the different generations of classifers. It really doesn't matter for Revo Division what your class is--at least not until we have enough people playing to actually have real competition at the different class levels--but it can certainly affect your competitive opportunities in the other divisions if you grandbag in Revo (whether intentionally or otherwise).

Mike, how do you mean classified higher? As in they selected classifiers to their strong suits or the HHF for older classifiers are off? Or do we just not have enough top level guys to get accurate HHFs?

[PatJones]

So we haven't heard anything with 3 days left before the rules change. Does this mean we're just gonna go with the classifiers the way they are?

[alecmc]

Who knows....

I'm surprised they are waiting till the very last moment to come out with something