SinistralRifleman Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Shot the match with the ROs the past couple days, here's my match videos for those of you that can't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: We have had an unusually high number of DQs on Stage 5 because folks did not follow the normal abandonment rules for the stage machinegun. The CRO is doing his best to make the requirements crystal clear, and we even have a poster citing the relevant rule right inside the abandonment barrel (see photo below). Leaving aside the question of whether abandonment rules should or should not evolve, or of how stage guns should be used, PLEASE pay attention when you come to shoot this stage... we take no pleasure from sending shooters home early for something this silly. Edited March 30, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Interim scores are hereI am checking to see if I can get results by individual stage. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: We have had an unusually high number of DQs on Stage 5 because folks did not follow the normal abandonment rules for the stage machinegun. The CRO is doing his best to make the requirements crystal clear, and we even have a poster citing the relevant rule right inside the abandonment barrel (see photo below). Leaving aside the question of whether abandonment rules should or should not evolve, or of how stage guns should be used, PLEASE pay attention when you come to shoot this stage... we take no pleasure from sending shooters home early for something this silly. If you are accustomed to shooting an AR15 this gun does pose a challenge in that you have to rotate the safety 2 clicks to get it on safe. One click just puts it in semi auto mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunther Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I don't think the CRO has made it clear at all, he just yells AS PER RULE 2.5 after 2 or 3 people were DQ'ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think the CRO has made it clear at all, he just yells AS PER RULE 2.5 after 2 or 3 people were DQ'ed I went and watched a briefing this afternoon. In addition to highlighting the abandonment requirements (which are the same as for every other gun in the match), the RO running the machinegun is carefully explaining to every shooter exactly how the selector can be set to SAFE prior to abandonment. He is doing this right before each competitor shoots. Hopefully this approach, along with competitors' familiarity with the AR platform, will help put a stop to the abandonment violations and consequent DQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunther Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) I don't think the CRO has made it clear at all, he just yells AS PER RULE 2.5 after 2 or 3 people were DQ'ed he would just yell that AS PER RULE 2.5 and some shooters would reply "which is what?" Then it would start all over again. Edited March 30, 2014 by gunther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 It also looks like stage 6 is almost a guarantee for penalties. What's that "gotcha"? Looks like a fun match again. Hey, watching two days of ice skating pre-teens in Kansas City is .... Well it sucks in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Stage 6 has lot of arial clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Updated interim results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLucky Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The "abandonment rule" ridiculousness sounds comical.. Unless you traveled all the way to Mesa to get DQed for something as so stupid as saying a gun with no ammunition in it isn't safe unless the safety selector switch is on safe. That is just comical (unless you are one of the people who got DQed for it, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterlingSomeone Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The event looked awesome. I left about an hour ago after watching the team match. The prize table was filled to the brim! I'm shooting it next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Any scores? Results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterlingSomeone Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) https://m.facebook.com/bj.norris/photos/a.396338553731936.102155.320174064681719/804343656264755/?type=1&source=46 Bj took a picture of the TA division. Edited March 31, 2014 by SterlingSomeone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWHaz Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 13 DQ's ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Results are up on Practiscore. Rule 2.5 even reared up and bit somebody at the team event with a 1911!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Results are up on Practiscore. I wonder what happend to the Heavy Metal scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 13 DQ's ???????Try 28 dq's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleaay78 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't think the CRO has made it clear at all, he just yells AS PER RULE 2.5 after 2 or 3 people were DQ'ed he would just yell that AS PER RULE 2.5 and some shooters would reply "which is what?" Then it would start all over again. This. It took several minutes of questioning the RO during our walk through to get a clear answer. He wouldn't just come out and say you have to drop the empty mag if the selector wasn't on safe. He just kept referring to the sign in the barrel. Granted this is in the rule book, but it's different from SMM3G rules last year, and different from every other match I've ever shot. A guy on our squad DQ'd for a 2011 locked back on an empty mag not being on safe. Totally messed up rule IMO. Any major variation from past rules should be highlighted IN PLAIN ENGLISH during the match. The high number of DQ's on this stage should be evidence enough that something is wonky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 For some reason the Heavy Metal results are not showing on the Practiscore website. I have all the scores here.Sorry it took a bit to get everything converted to pdf's and uploaded but it should all be there now. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Any scores? Results? We really going to do this again? You want me to get you John Bent's email? You didn't shoot this one either! Results happen when they happen, lighten up and enjoy the wait.....it builds character! ....... you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLucky Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 13 DQ's ???????Try 28 dq's! I wonder how many of them were on the prop gun and for abandoning a gun with no bullets that "wasn't safe" in a dump barrel??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) ...Granted this is in the rule book, but it's different from SMM3G rules last year, and different from every other match I've ever shot. A guy on our squad DQ'd for a 2011 locked back on an empty mag not being on safe. Totally messed up rule IMO. Any major variation from past rules should be highlighted IN PLAIN ENGLISH during the match. The high number of DQ's on this stage should be evidence enough that something is wonky. NOT TRUE!!!! This rule remains completely UNCHANGED since I got involved with IMA-SMM3G rules (2010), and probably has its origins in SOF rules (the Granddaddy of all 3-Gun matches). If you contact me by IM/EM I will gladly send you a copy of the 2010 rules. The way we handled the stage gun on Stage 5 was completely consistent with the way all other guns had to be abandoned - I DQ'd someone for the exact same infraction on Stage 8. Each year we do indeed highlight changes from the previous year. If you bothered to download and read our current IMA-SMM3G rules, you would have seen that the changes are color coded in a red font, as they have been every year since 2010. We also highlighted the applicable rule on a poster right inside the abandonment barrel, with the salient points underlined for emphasis. I have to say, I am completely comfortable the Stage 5 RO crew did their due diligence. I cannot speak to the rules for other matches you shoot, but many do use copy-paste versions of IMA-SMM3G rules, so I am sure many others have the same rule, whether enforced or not. As I said in my post above, the question of whether gun abandonment rules should evolve is a separate issue - I discussed this matter with other 3-Gun thought leaders over the weekend and we are largely aligned. However, whatever the rules are, it does not change the fact that the COMPETITOR is solely responsible for knowing the match safety rules and for complying with the rules as written on the day of the match - not what they may have been in the past, what they are at other matches, what they might be or what they should be in the competitors opinion. This is a central tenet of all the practical shooting sports. I get it that competitors who spend hundreds of dollars traveling to a match can get angry when they get DQ'd for a "silly" safety violation, but they should be angry at themselves for not knowing and complying with a rule clearly published in plain English, not the poor guy who volunteered to stand out in 90 degree heat for 3 days to run 300 shooters through a match. Edited March 31, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) We started on Stage 5 on Friday....First shooter, first day,...DQ'ed. I really felt bad for him. And before we finished the stage we lost another on the prop gun. Edited March 31, 2014 by THM7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Sorry I couldn't stay for the after party. It's 7am and we are rolling into Colorado Springs. I've got just enough time to do shit, shave and shower and head to work. Gonna be a long day.The match was awesome! Thankyou to all of the staff for working so hard to put on a world class event. It took a small army of people a year to get everything ready. All of the stages were excellent technical challenges, each with it's own twist. I was on the best squad and made some new friends. I had a great time battling with Kelly Neal and watching him throw down some jaw dropping performances. Sterling White is about the nicest guy you will ever meet and Kurt and Eric are party central! Thank you squad 7 for making it a really fun match.I'm starting to notice the trend that a match is rarely remembered for the 30 things they do awesome, but rather for the one thing which didn't go well. It is important to remember that the SMM3G rents the Rio Salado range for the match. As a rented venue the match is subject to range rules and does not have the luxury of dictating 3 gun common rules to the gun club. Rio Salado is a very well established and professional organization which works in harmony with it's local community. With development creeping closer to the range every year, safety rules must be constantly reviewed and modified so that the range can survive. The new abandonment rule was very clearly printed on line, at every stage and was printed in bold type right in front of the shooter's start position. The abandonment procedure was also universally applied for all detachable magazine fed weapons. It's true that it is an unusual rule for our specific type of competition, but the new rule was as clearly communicated as all of the other rules for this year's match. I would also encourage anyone who didn't attend this match or work it to tread lightly when making negative comments about an event they had no part in.I give my first SMM3G experience 5 stars. Edited March 31, 2014 by co-exprs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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