New shooter attendance enigma

[Jim Norman]

OK, So, you line in anarea that only holds one USPSA match a month. So? Yes it MAY take you 4 months to get classified, this is true, HOWEVER, most new shooters and that includes most people that have carried a gun for years are not likely to be contenders for their first couple matches. If you really are that good, then as a U you can still win overall in your division. USPSA is not only about the shooting, it is also about deciphering the COF, it is also about showing up early and staying late to help build and tear down, it is also about the people you meet. If all you are after is the shooting, you will miss out on better than half of what USPSA is all about.

As for the learning curve, one can argue that IDPA might be quicker as there is generally one way to shoot he COF and you are essentially told how to do it. USPSA is freestyle, figure it out and go for it. Not bashing IDPA, I am a member and I do occasionally shoot a match. Our USPSA club runs twice monthly practice matches where we will take all the time needed to coach and train a new shooter. We regulary loan mags and other gear to shooters.

One itme I did pick up on here and I may add it tom my club is a set or two of 'Loaner Gear' Most of us have multiple rigs, we could easily throw a few in the bag just in case.

Jim

[BayouSlide]

I'd like to go to one these new shooter friendly events everyone talks about.

That is a dang shame and would not be your experience at any of the four clubs I shoot with here in South Louisiana.

If you're ever in our area, PM me. Not only will you find welcome but new shooters shoot for free (or just the classifier cost) at all our clubs!

Curtis

[RobMoore]

I actually thought of it the other way, Jim. For a beginner, USPSA doesn't make you memorize as many rules. You may not be as competitive, because you haven't figured out how to "game" the stage, but as long as you're safe, shoot it as you wish.

In IDPA, a new shooter has to contend with cover, where and what kind of reload to do, tac sequence, tac priority, multiple zones on the targets to hit (mozambique), COF procedurals (such as not moving while shooting when specified), ect. The COFs may be scripted, but they can get pretty brain testing when you think about it.

[GrumpyOne]

the OP of this thread, CHA-LEE and I have PM'ed each other quite a bit about this topic.

My first guess would be ego, especially as it applies to cops. Yeah, granted you really don't see many cops show up to either an IDPA and/or USPSA match,....now I am just speculating here, so... a cop or three will show up to some local match, but I guess when they see how badly their behinds got handed to them when the results get posted to the web ...well... I guess in a way it is either intimidating and/or quite the blow to the ego, I mean after all they are "trained" cops and have to "qualify" once maybe twice a year, so they never show up to another match ever again.

I guess maybe, possibly the same kinda logic could apply to those same folks who go through a CCW course(in those free-er states). They might think they are all high speed ninja types after passing the CCW class, but then they make it out to a match and the realization hits them that NO!, they are NOT the next best gunslingers since James Bond or Wyatt Earp. Again, a blow to the ego.

I personally have witnessed the police/sheriff situation. They come in, all swagger and cool, tell everyone they are an officer and they are gonna hand it to us, then get the pants beat off of them, and never come back. The coolest thing is the look on their face when the first shooter does his/her first run. Usually a dumbfounded, what the hell did I get myself into look.

[CHA-LEE]

Another shooter and I were talking about this last night and came up with yet another idea as to why so many new shooters show up to but don’t return to IDPA matches. The basic premise is that since IDPA is more geared to the “Tactical” crowd and the average gun owner can show up and use what they already have due to the lower round counts and what not. This brings in more shooters because there are more shooters coming into the gun world from that vantage point. Then from an IDPA competition standpoint, a proficient shooter that hasn’t attended a match before should be able to finish “Mid Pack” in the results without too much effort, at least locally here in Colorado. So maybe this gives the new shooter a false sense of achievement and they feel that they are “Good Enough” in their pistol shooting skills and don’t feel the need to come back. When a new shooter attends a USPSA match it is usually a very humbling experience and most guys are better off looking for their match results starting off at the bottom of the list and looking up from there as that is usually where they will finish.

Maybe its an Ego thing as well? It’s a pretty stout blow to their Ego when they think they know how to shoot fast and accurately and then witness it being done correctly by a seasoned match shooter. It’s a lot easier to slip back into your “King of the hill” tin can plinker world, verses step up to the challenge of mastering competition pistol shooting.

[MarkCO]

I agree that IDPA is less intimidating, less expensive, and a better ego stroke to the average guy than USPSA. A mid pack USPSA shooter will win or be very near the top in an average IDPA match while shooting less than half the amount of ammo and have his skill set challenged much less. IDPA also tends to give props to the shooter who shoots a clean match, regardless of the speed. Many IDPA shooters look at the match as "tactical practice" with more of a martial arts perspective than the average USPSA shooter. Also, the majority of IDPA shooter do not relaod while the majority of USPSA shooters do reload. Let's face it, IDPA has ushered many new shooters into USPSA that otherwise would not exist. I can tell you that of the CCW students I have instructed, only about 10% try a match, and 90% try IDPA first. That is with me almost insisting that they need to shoot matches to improve their gun-handling skills. These new IDPA shooters try a match here and there and most lose interest in the competition aspect and so USPSA really is not their cup of tea. When USPSA starts the production .22 class thereby reducing costs, you will see a lot of new USPSA shooters.

[chemepharmd]

I'd like to go to one these new shooter friendly events everyone talks about.

That is a dang shame and would not be your experience at any of the four clubs I shoot with here in South Louisiana.

If you're ever in our area, PM me. Not only will you find welcome but new shooters shoot for free (or just the classifier cost) at all our clubs!

Curtis

I'll second that comment for my area as well. I'm sure there may be a few clubs out there somewhere that aren't the most friendly, but our club and most of the others that I've met are very friendly and welcoming to new shooters. A big part of the fun in competetive shooting is being around the type of people that you shoot with, which is generally top-notch.

[HRider]

I shoot with the Mobile club as well. Our club tries hard to be friendly to anyone that will come to shoot with us. We have loaned gear, guns, ammo. We don't charge a match fee for your first time shooting with us either. The more people that we can get involved in the shooting sports, the better off all of us will be.

Now, if we could just get ammo and component prices to fall drastically, that wouldn't either

Hurley

[rdero]

So - how did the second match go? Was your reception any better?

It was excellent! That is the most fun I ever had shooting. I realized that I didn't have to "zoom" around like all you pros. The people were so friendly, I asked some about the last match and was told that some just had bad experiences with beginners who show up with the "know all attitude" and don't want to listen to advice that was given. They also knew which competitors I was talking about and it just seems that some of the better shooters just have that attitude that they only deal with others at their level. Oh well no skin off my back. I am looking forward to the next match. I really appreciate all the advice and support given here and look forward to shooting with some of you one of these days.

Edited August 20, 2009 by rdero

[MHicks]

I've shot in cowboy action matches for about 9 years. Just about 2 years of IDPA and now have a few matches under my belt in ICORE. I plan on trying USPSA next. I'll be going to my first sanctioned IDPA match (Ca. State) in October. I go out shooting with some of the guys I know at work and I know that some are interested in trying some competition. I think a lot of shooters are missing out on a lot of fun because they are nervous about getting out in front of other shooters and seeing how they compare. It's easy to think that you need to practice more before you get out there, but I tell them to come on out, in a few months you won't be the new guy anymore. I did get one guy to come out. He had a great time but his work schedule changed and he had to put it on the back burner for the time being.

Mark

[Fullauto_Shooter]

So - how did the second match go? Was your reception any better?

It was excellent! That is the most fun I ever had shooting. I realized that I didn't have to "zoom" around like all you pros. The people were so friendly, I asked some about the last match and was told that some just had bad experiences with beginners who show up with the "know all attitude" and don't want to listen to advice that was given. They also knew which competitors I was talking about and it just seems that some of the better shooters just have that attitude that they only deal with others at their level. Oh well no skin off my back. I am looking forward to the next match. I really appreciate all the advice and support given here and look forward to shooting with some of you one of these days.

Glad to hear it and welcome to the addiction!!

Good on you for coming back and giving it another try - lots of folks with thin skins would have just quit after the reception you got at the first match. Being a persistent bastard pays off sometimes.

Still not sure where you're at in TX, but we're shooting a match at Brazosland Pistoleros (near College Station) on Sunday - if it's not too far you ought to come out and play. If you're interested, PM me for more info.

Doug

[npolley]

Hi to all,

i am a complete newbie to the shooting world and the forum and i am looking at possibly getting into the competitive shooting side of it.

are there any tips that might help me not be the "stupid" new guy and be completely intemidated by the whole experience.

for instance i have an hk p30 9mm and a springfield xdm .40, which would be a better gun for the uspsa also what kind of holster would be good for it as well.

are there any practice drills that i could do before i go for the first time?

i suck and i know it so the whole ego thing is out the window i just dont want people get upset with the new guy. i just want to have fun, shoot and learn so any help you guys might be able to give me would help.

i just dont want to be "that guy"

thanks

neil

[IL-SIG]

Neil,

Spend a lot of time reading the different topics in this forum. This is the best resource you can find on the Net.

Also, "Search" is your friend for any questions you may have.

Welcome to a great community!

[MarkCO]

i am a complete newbie to the shooting world and the forum and i am looking at possibly getting into the competitive shooting side of it.

are there any tips that might help me not be the "stupid" new guy and be completely intemidated by the whole experience.

By the mere fact that you asked, you have already avoided that. Recomendations:

1. Find your local club, call the contact and ask when they have a new shooter class, most clubs do that.

2. Find someone here on BE, or who already shoots that you might know, to go with you to the first few matches.

3. ASK the RO and squad mates for coaching at the first match. By rule, at a club match, you can be coached if you ask.

4. Shoot whichever of your two pistols you are the most comfortable with in Production/SSP.

5. Burn the 4 rules of gun safety into your brain, if they are not already there.

I'd suggest USPSA production or IDPA SSP, if you can, you will need 4 10 round mags. If you have any holster, go with that as long as it meets the rules and is safe. Several of the nylon holsters are cheap and will get you through a match, but you really want to try it without spending any money if you can. If you get hooked, a particluar division might appeal to you and having spent very little up front, the next money can go to what you really like.

The originator of this thread took a basic class from me a little over a year ago having never really shot. He got an XDm and started out with an IDPA match. He now has a race ready EAA, just made USPSA Master (Just got married too so that was by the skin of his teeth ) and is on the board of one of the local clubs, so be prepared to get hooked big time. As with anything technical or skilled, get a mentor to help you get started. If you are in CO, I'd be more than happy to get you started. If not, post your location and I am sure someone will jump in and volunteer. WELCOME!

[npolley]

good info, thanks keep it coming

i have sent an email to the local club just waiting on a reply

i live in Henderson, Ky so if theres anybody close that might be able to point me in a go direction lets hear it

thanks

[brnhp35]

The local club that I got started with worked it well. They are a outdoor range that is open to public (for a fee) and the staff kinda kept eyes out and those that seemed interested were pointed towards a steel plate match which is run similar to steel challenge but not same stages and run from a low ready off a barrel. So no holsters needed and only a few magazines. After shooting a few of these the guys/gals that wanted more and exibihited safe gun handling skills were pointed over to the ipsc match. The ro's were same for both matches. The club there did not do idpa due to a falling out over the "unrealistic requirement for senarios" thier quote not mine....unfortunatly the club no longer does uspsa matches. with 4-5 clubs within 30 minutes of each other the market was saturated and turnout for all was down. there are only 2-3 now and attendance has picked up some

Edited September 14, 2009 by brnhp35

[DogmaDog]

Hi to all,

i am a complete newbie to the shooting world and the forum and i am looking at possibly getting into the competitive shooting side of it.

are there any tips that might help me not be the "stupid" new guy and be completely intemidated by the whole experience.

for instance i have an hk p30 9mm and a springfield xdm .40, which would be a better gun for the uspsa also what kind of holster would be good for it as well.

are there any practice drills that i could do before i go for the first time?

i suck and i know it so the whole ego thing is out the window i just dont want people get upset with the new guy. i just want to have fun, shoot and learn so any help you guys might be able to give me would help.

i just dont want to be "that guy"

thanks

neil

Don't know anything about the HK--it would be good in production (provided it isn't a single action trigger), and the XDM could be used in production or limited (or limited 10) divisions. A kydex belt holster (e.g. Comp-Tac or Blade Tech...there are many others, too) is what I use in production.

-As a new shooter, #1 thing is BE SAFE!

-Dry fire practice--draws and reloads are definitely worthwhile, as 1) you have to be able to do these things safely, and 2) most people with "some" shooting experience have no experience with drawing and reloading.

-At the match, help! Tape targets (after they've been scored), reset and paint steel.

DD

[Revopop]

npolley, I'm in Evansville, on the IN side of the Ohio. I just moved here from Iowa in the spring, but I've been shooting USPSA/IDPA for about 6 years now. Owensboro Rifle & Pistol club is about an hour away (probably closer to you), and they put on a great match! There's usually 5-6 stages. The next one there is this coming Saturday, and I will be there. If you'd like, I have a complete G17 Production rig or a Single Stack rig you can borrow. Just provide a belt and ammo.

At Redbrush range here in Evansville, there is a monthly IDPA match and a monthly steel match as well. I haven't shot there yet as it doesn't jive with my work schedule. If you do get hooked and don't mind driving, Terre Haute and Sellersburg are both about 2 hours away and have USPSA, Steel, IDPA, ICORE.

As far as equipment, Blade-Tech and Comp-Tac make high quality, functional holsters and mag pouches for reasonable prices. Here's a link to a really good deal on a Comp-Tac for a P30, BTW. It's the same one I use for my single stack, but I prefer the straight drop to the FBI cant. I use a Blade-Tech DOH for Production and Revolver.

Feel free to PM me with any questions, if you'd like to carpool, or you'd like to have a practice session.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Revopop

[twodownzero]

OK, So, you line in anarea that only holds one USPSA match a month. So? Yes it MAY take you 4 months to get classified, this is true, HOWEVER, most new shooters and that includes most people that have carried a gun for years are not likely to be contenders for their first couple matches. If you really are that good, then as a U you can still win overall in your division. USPSA is not only about the shooting, it is also about deciphering the COF, it is also about showing up early and staying late to help build and tear down, it is also about the people you meet. If all you are after is the shooting, you will miss out on better than half of what USPSA is all about.

As for the learning curve, one can argue that IDPA might be quicker as there is generally one way to shoot he COF and you are essentially told how to do it. USPSA is freestyle, figure it out and go for it. Not bashing IDPA, I am a member and I do occasionally shoot a match. Our USPSA club runs twice monthly practice matches where we will take all the time needed to coach and train a new shooter. We regulary loan mags and other gear to shooters.

One itme I did pick up on here and I may add it tom my club is a set or two of 'Loaner Gear' Most of us have multiple rigs, we could easily throw a few in the bag just in case.

Jim

Your club is OUTSTANDING. Thanks for the warm welcome this summer. I shot with you guys twice, and it was great both times.

[SCfromNY]

I will add my 2 cents. I like both sports and both sports have many "unrealistic" moves you would not use in a real life situation. For instance in IDPA you are penilized for dropping a mag before you go to slide lock, you must reload in cover, and slice the pie on targets to name a few. None of these are germain to real life.

In USPSA having to run and shoot 12 targets with 2 shots as you see them as fast as you accurately can, reloading between segments of the course and shooting the targets in any order you wish is also not real.

Let's be real both forms of competition make you a better shooter. You learn a smooth draw, to shoot fast and accurately, handle jams, and become more relaxed shooting a handgun. Unless you are unbeleivably well trained you will revert to standing still and shooting the closest target in an emergency. An example would be the NYPD's 17% hit rate in shooting events.

If I would have to guess as to why initially IDPA is more popular than USPSA I would say the speed of the game. I have shot against masters in IDPA and rarely but sometimes came close to their score on a particular stage. That rarely happens in USPSA where masters truly "smoke" a stage. It can be very intimidating. My first USPSA match I was squaded with Chris Tilly and 2 of his buddies, 2 SWAT guys and a Grand Master shooting my S&W99.

What I tell all shooters is to shoot your match. Learn from it and what myself and other shooting friends do is pick someone slightly better and hope to beat them.

[Matt Griffin]

Hi to all,

i am a complete newbie to the shooting world and the forum and i am looking at possibly getting into the competitive shooting side of it.

are there any tips that might help me not be the "stupid" new guy and be completely intemidated by the whole experience.

thanks

neil

Just ask. Ask, ask, ask. Every little thing that is confusing at all, ask somebody how it works, what it means, and what to do. We LOVE explaining this stuff, otherwise we just sit around and pick apart every little aspect like golfers. Ask how to do a particular draw safely, there are so many little tips that make this game safer and easier. I'm not being sarcastic, I love talking about this stuff and don't get a chance to do so outside of this forum and at the matches, so I love explaining things to new guys. I remember watching Dave Sevigny (who was the Limited National Champion that year) spend a solid twenty minutes explaining how scoring worked to a couple that was observing at Double Tap.

Other than that, as mentioned, be safe and help tape. Also, when helping to paste a target, follow the RO, don't wander out on your own. Everybody has done it at least once, but about the only bad thing a new guy could do outside the area of safety would be to tape a target too early and cause a reshoot.

Oh, and one last thing re: safety: When in doubt, stop, keep the gun pointed down range with your finger off the trigger, and ASK the RO. Sometimes everything can get confusing during a run, better to just stop and figure it out rather than potentially cause a problem. It makes everyone happy to see you act safely and responsibly, and nobody cares what your score is (until you beat them.)

H.

[calishootr]

At my local club I make it a point to walk over and ask the 'lookie-loo's' if they have any questions, and I spend as much time as they want, explaining the sport of USPSA shooting, I have heard that people think USPSA is intimidating, alot is based wronly on their parts, that they have to compete against someone like me who has a fullhouse racegun on the belt, i try and dispell that myth, by saying USPSA has many different divisions to compete in, or as i call it, dance with who ya brung to the party

Also to diminish the intimidation factor, we also put on a 'into to USPSA shooting' out here on the left coast, where we again try to dispell the myths, and to POUND into the heads of the newbies SAFETY!!!!!!! because USPSA shooting is all together different from anything most new shooters are accustomed to, today im teaching a guy, who wants to shoot USPSA style shooting but has only owned a gun for 6 months, I keep pounding safety into him, and am now babystepping him thru the basic tools he will need on the various courses of fire that USPSA matches will throw at him, so far so good!!!!! you see someone standing off to the side watching, walk over and say hi!!!!!!!!!!!! any questions???? an go from there....

[Mo Hepworth]

IDPA COFs are much more structured; generally, there is only one way to shoot them. USPSA & IPSC, on the other hand, pose open-ended shooting problems. This is one of the reasons why I myself enjoy USPSA more than IDPA.

At our USPSA club, we encourage new shooters to "run what ya brung." This takes a lot of the intimidation out of the sport. Most of us that shoot USPSA know you dont need a tricked out race gun to be competitive and have fun. Unfortunately, that seems to be the image our sport has fostered.

I see that as actually more "tactical" or defensive. If you are allowed to figure out how to shoot the COF the fastest way and still be accurate,..this makes it more fun and that is why I like USPSA/IPSC more so than IDPA. Maybe there are too many rules to IDPA? ie: You HAVE to shoot it this way,....there is no room to really adapt and overcome, because you are not encouraged to do so. Maybe this is a hinderance to IDPA, maybe it turns shooters off...??

Edited September 25, 2009 by Mo Hepworth

[Mo Hepworth]

OK, So, you line in anarea that only holds one USPSA match a month. So? Yes it MAY take you 4 months to get classified, this is true, HOWEVER, most new shooters and that includes most people that have carried a gun for years are not likely to be contenders for their first couple matches. If you really are that good, then as a U you can still win overall in your division. USPSA is not only about the shooting, it is also about deciphering the COF, it is also about showing up early and staying late to help build and tear down, it is also about the people you meet. If all you are after is the shooting, you will miss out on better than half of what USPSA is all about.

As for the learning curve, one can argue that IDPA might be quicker as there is generally one way to shoot he COF and you are essentially told how to do it. USPSA is freestyle, figure it out and go for it. Not bashing IDPA, I am a member and I do occasionally shoot a match. Our USPSA club runs twice monthly practice matches where we will take all the time needed to coach and train a new shooter. We regulary loan mags and other gear to shooters.

One itme I did pick up on here and I may add it tom my club is a set or two of 'Loaner Gear' Most of us have multiple rigs, we could easily throw a few in the bag just in case.

Jim

well written,...I agree100%. If people understand the rules (you are competing against yourself and others in your firearms division),.and not running a glock 17 against an Open gun. PLUS getting to meet new people, talk about matches and guns and gear is where most of your time is spent. Most times you are actually only shooting for a few moments of the day.

[Sarge]

I wish I lived where some of you have your matches. I recently retired out of the military and decided to move down south near a buddy who was wounded with me. I was interested in trying the "shooting sports". I even volunteered to help set up a match just to see how USPSA/ IPSC match was run. Even though I was told people were friendly and it was fun, it was not so for my buddy and me. We helped taped, brass, asked about scoring, etc. It was like we were a bother and got the feeling that we were wasting time by asking about the COF. When I talked to other competitors it was one word responses or they were too high an mighty to answer questions. We were really uncomfortable, and pretty much ignored. I'd like to go to one these new shooter friendly events everyone talks about. This experience pretty muched turned us off to this organization, and other buddies who would have liked to try. It would have been nice to shoot and learn without having rounds, RPG's, IED's going off. Just us trying to shoot because we enjoy it. I have nothing against anybody, but the "friendly and fun" enviroment wasn't experienced by either of us. Just my .02 cents. We did attend the HAVA event though and Todd Jarret, Rob Leatham and the rest were very cool and friendly. This was the reason we decided to go to an USPSA match. I really like this site as I learn from all of you and enjoy reading some of your posts.

Thanks a million for serving. I am retired army as well. I only started shooting this year. Some of my original posts are funny to me now. Yes, I was intimidated by all the gee wiz shooting gear, etc. Saw a lot of real fast shooters. But guess what? Less than half of them were hitting anything.

You had a bad experience and I am sorry for that. But you will find that if you had all the time and money you needed to travel to matches all year you would find many many more great people than bad.

I was shooting a match pretty early on and a very good open shooter walked over to me after I shot a stage and all I could think was, "I really don't want to hear his comments about my shooting prowess." His first words were, "good run" asked how long I had been shooting and was genuinely impressed with my gun handling for a beginner. I told him I was retired Army and had fired alot of ammo over the years so shooting was not that big of a deal. But I did tell him it was a bitch to be fast AND accurate. And he told me he had been shooting a long time and said it is still a bitch to be fast and accurate.

Keep shooting. Of all the shooting I have ever done USPSA is by far the funnest game I've played.

Edited September 26, 2009 by sandman