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BayouSlide

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  1. BayouSlide
    FWIW, mine connects and runs fine in direct sun with the Digital Link no matter what the outside temp...and summer gets plenty hot in Louisiana...but I've never run it enclosed. Curtis
  2. BayouSlide
    No problems here with a Hiperfire 3G (w/strongest springs for lightest pull) in a PSA lower running a Taccom upper. Curtis
  3. BayouSlide
    I liked it fine, I just couldn't never get it to run 100 percent with my Taccom upper with factory or reloads at about 143 PF. I have pulled all the internal cushioning out and now testing with the main portion of the buffer for maximum travel. Curtis
  4. BayouSlide
    Hard to tell exactly. Some I probably bought maybe three to five years ago—some I received as part of a trade. But I am pretty sure that they were only the lot #/#s mentioned earlier in the thread. The problems were not caused by all the Winchester primers, only the particular lot numbers mentioned. I'd check your the lot numbers on your primers…and it never hurts to be aware of the potential problem so you can catch it early. Curtis
  5. BayouSlide
    All I use for competition and practice are the CMC Power Mags…never a problem. Curtis
  6. BayouSlide
    I didn't photograph them before I turned them over to Winchester, but another Enos thread has a good picture of exactly what they look like: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137924 On a few of my samples, the crack ended in a tiny pinhole on the edge of the primer face. Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate tipos typos!
  7. BayouSlide
    That is a real advantage for the Infinity slides, for sure, Lee. Winchester compensated me fairly for the value of repairs, which put us even on the value of the pistols to where I was before I ran into the bad primers, and I released them from any further obligation on the issue with my pistols. Right now, I'm planning on continuing to shoot the Baer as is…much like myself as I approach my geezerhood, my breech face and I may not be pretty but we can still get the job done when we have too . Curtis
  8. BayouSlide
    I was able to trace my problems to one lot of WLP and didn't realize what was going on until it had advanced quite a bit…because competition pistol shooters can go through a lot of ammo in a hurry and don't necessarily clean and inspect after every range trip or match. For the records, I had thousands of Winchester primers of maybe five different lots, obtained during the last Great Primer Shortage or from a recent trade when I sold my .40 Limited gun and exchanged components with the buyer. Now you know what to be looking for if it starts to occur in your pistol, no matter which primers you use, which is the real value of this thread IMO. Curtis
  9. BayouSlide
    Final update: After examining my pistols, ammo and samples of the cracked primers, Winchester agreed to a payment sufficient to cover the cost of slide replacements for my Baer and Delta, plus 1K rounds of WWB 45 ACP to make up for the ammo I sent 'em. It was very upsetting for me to see my pistols damaged, but to its credit Winchester was willing to stand behind its product and treat me fairly. Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate tipos typos!
  10. BayouSlide
    Stick with Titegroup. Started with Titegroup years ago because it was cheaper and more available and have continued to use it for 9mm, .40 and 45 with no desire to change…but these days seems like nothing is available. Got lucky with gunbot and picked up 10#s of TG a few months back so I'm breathing a little easier. Curtis
  11. BayouSlide
    Still waiting word from Winchester…as well as return of my pistols. In the meantime, I picked up a near-new Sig Scorpion on a trade and started loading all my new 45 ACP rounds with Federal LPP. FWIW, a couple hundred rounds down range and the breech is still pristine. Guess it ain't necessarily Titegroup, my brass or my loading techniques that are the problem. Curtis
  12. BayouSlide
    For anyone following the topic, here's another example of the problem I ran into right here on the Enos forum: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137924 Some nice photos of an example of how the primers crack on the side of the primer cup. LIke skip62, I saw the highest incidence of the problem with R-P brass, plus a few Federal in 45. The 10mm was Federal nickel only because that was what I was loading. Here's just a couple of other examples, FWIW, of similar problems in Winchester primers, pistol and rifle, that I ran into recently after a quick Web search: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=619406 http://m14forum.com/ammunition/128496-trouble-winchester-wlrm-primers.html I kinda wish I had kept a log of all the URLs of similar topics I ran into when I was originally researching the problem. Curtis
  13. BayouSlide
    No offense taken. Anything is a possibility, I guess. That certainly might explain the cracks on the side, but a few primers only have a pinhole—no crack—and the pinhole is above the rim of the primer pocket. That would seem to confirm failure of the primer to me. A couple samples show both the crack and the pinhole, though the crack extends from the side and ends at the pinhole. Winchester has received the sample brass and fired primers for examination…a drum of reloaded ammo and the last 100 primers from that lot number were picked up by the freight company Friday. Two pistols go to them for examination on Monday. If Winchester feels this lot of primers was not the problem, I'm sure they will be quick to say so. One way or the other, for everyone's continuing education, I'll post whatever they determine. In regards to the cases, I make it a rule to discard cases for any caliber after the sixth loading. I was actually considering discarding 45s after 4 or 5. These particular 45 cases were on their third loading or less, the 10mm were on their second loading. Curtis
  14. BayouSlide
    Winchester eventually did get back with me and I have been discussing the issue with a Winchester marketing representative. Samples of the fired brass and defective primers were shipped to them today. They will be sending shipping materials for the remaining reloaded ammo and 100 unfired primers I have left from lot XML596G. We also discussed sending my Baer to them in August after I complete matches over the next two weekends. I've reconsidered my first inclination not to send one of my Colt Delta which was also affected, though not to extent seen on the Baer, and am asking them to examine that pistol as well. We'll see how it goes from here…I'll keep y'all posted. Curtis
  15. BayouSlide
    Just wanted to update: Shot the last 194 practice rounds loaded with the WLP lot #XLM596G earlier this afternoon. Examined every single piece of brass under good lighting and pulled 5 pieces of brass that looked a little suspicious, i.e. a little dark/sooty around the primer. Punched out the primers .Out of the five, 4 had cracks running the entire side of the primer cup, one so extensive it actually ran up about 0.03 in. of the way or so onto the face of the primer. Three of the pieces of brass were R-P (Remington), one Federal, all fired 3X before today. To minimize further damage to the breech I slowed down my practice regimen and let the pistol cool every 3 to 4 mags and limited rapid strings of fire, working mostly draws and follow up shots. Also heard back from the gunsmith I'll go to for the inevitable repairs when they become necessary: a new Caspian slide, and I might opt for a Hard Hat treatment for further protection. Curtis
  16. BayouSlide
    Just checked my reloading logs and my ammo on hand: fortunately, I probably only have 400 match rounds and 200 practice rounds left in 45 with the XML coded primers that I suspect were the problem children, plus a few hundred rounds of 10mm. Added the dated picture of the breech face into the Excel log I keep so I have something to compare with down the road to see if the problem continues to worsen. I'll keep y'all posted, just to share the info FWIW. Curtis
  17. BayouSlide
    Nothing. Seems pristine. I hadn't completely scrubbed everything in that area when I took the photo so you're seeing a little carbon burnt powder residue in the photo. I cleaned/polished the breech face with a narrow strip of ultra fine Scotchbrite on a cleaning brush: you can see the edge of where that cleaning stopped. After the photo I cleaned that area up with a brass brush and all is fine. Did bend the original Baer firing pin about 1,300 rounds ago: no visible burning or any other problem indicated and it was replaced with an EGW which seems much better made. The damage seems confined solely to that circular area of the breech face. Curtis
  18. BayouSlide
    As I noted, if it's an issue it's certain lots of primers. I saw the majority of the damage within the two most recent lots of primers I used, possibly a single lot. Unfortunately, I normally buy components in quantity so that lot affects a large quantity of the total rounds through that pistol. Curtis
  19. BayouSlide
    In answer to your very valid questions: • It would be odd that Titegroup would cause primer cracking/pin holing. Titegroup is all I've used for many tens of thousands of rounds in 9mm and 40 and is a common powder choice for 45 as well. Research on the Web seems to indicate some issues with the annealing/composition of primer cups more likely, but your guess is as good as mine. • I only mentioned the burning of the cup in one instance, a tiny spot adjacent to a pin holed primer. It was a very tiny area, adjacent to the pinhole that developed in the primer, not significant brass failure. The only reason I found it was because I knew what to look for at this point. Definitely not a loose primer pocket. The damage was soley at the pin point of primer failure. A loose pocket would have created a problem encircling the entire primer cup. • Brass is mixed: the majority Winchester, Remington, CCI, Federal, various others, including Speer, Starline, PPU, etc. • At a PF averaging 175 PF, I consider that a midrange target load, actually higher than some might run. Remember, I'm not talking here about pressure escaping from the primer pocket…the evidence is showing failure of the primer cup, with either a side split or a pinhole adjacent to the edge of the primer cup. This would indicate to me primer cup failure, not lack of pressure and failure of the primer to seat. • Don't consider your comments as negative as all…we share our experiences and it's up to each of us to evaluate the data, such as it is, and apply it to our own experience and see if it has an value or relevance. I'm not saying all Winchester LPP are necessarily bad…but I have read of and experienced things that would indicate some lots may be substandard and have issues. Do a search on the subject and you'll see I'm not the only one who has had problems and the problems aren't limited to recent occurrences. Use factory ammo of one brand exclusively and its a little easier to point the finger if a gun is damaged or blown up. As a longtime, experienced reloader, I accept that. I've got another couple thousand rounds loaded with the suspect lot of primers…and plan to shoot 'em up at this point, starting with practice tomorrow. The slide's functional but damaged and if a new slide is in my future anyway, why not use up some ammo that is worth close to the cost of a new slide. Take my comments as one person's experience and observations, and worth what you paid for 'em . Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate tipos typos!
  20. BayouSlide
    Don't really expect them to stand behind their product or even call back for that matter. Always easy for someone to weasel out so I have no expectations that they would replace my slide if I could "prove" anything to their satisfaction. Dig around the Internet a little and you'll see I'm not the only one who has had this problem. Anybody happy with Winchester LP primers, more power to 'em…stop by my house and I'll make you a killer deal on the 3,000 I have left. But since you brought it up, I bought the Baer used/like new with less than 100 rounds through it (documented by seller and by my pre-purchase inspection). The only ammunition shot through it since I purchased it in October was 42 rounds of WWB, 20 rounds of Federal HST, and 4,357 rounds of my reloads (4.65 - 4.7 grains of Titegroup with a 230 grain FMJ Zero, which chrono to a mid-170s PF). Now that I know what to look for, I've easily found and saved samples (from the brass I shot at my last match) of the primers with the accompanying brass which show cracked primer cups or pin holes which vented hot gas onto the breech face. One of the pieces of brass is slightly melted at the edge of the cup where the pinhole started. Otherwise all the brass is in good shape, with tight primer pockets and only a few loadings. And my reloading notes have every lot of WLP primer on every date I loaded and how often the batch of brass was used. You clean a new Baer every 300 - 400 rounds or the dang thing won't run 100 percent they are so tight. That's about three times as often as my STIs or Glocks. Though I'm at a loss why cleaning would have any effect on reducing gas cutting on the breech face, but live and learn. "Why did you allow it to get so eroded". Well, that's an interesting point. I expect a certain amount of erosion wear but in the last 1,000 rounds (that's one Sunday match and the preceding Wednesday and Saturday practice session) the pitting really went off the charts and kind of took me by surprise when I examined it with magnification. That is when I started researching the problem on the Web. I guess the best answer is, if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have used any more Winchester primers on the first signs of the problem. I've competed in USPSA for years and according to my logs I've loaded approximately 98,200 rounds of 9mm, 40, 10mm and 45, so I like to think I probably know what I'm doing. But there's always more to learn. I use Federal SPP but ended up building loads on WLP because that was all I could find at the time. And the only reason I am posting this is so that maybe the next guy on the forum who reads this, or someone finding it through Google, will be a little more enlightened than I was about a potential problem and what to look for. The problem is, the only thing we have to go by in selecting primers is the reputation of the manufacturer for quality control and a quality product. Until we light off the darn thing, we can't tell whether it will do the job and hold up under the pressure. Curtis
  21. BayouSlide
    Left a message early this morning with an operator for Winchester Ammunition but I'm not holding my breath for a callback today or any other day for that matter. Curtis
  22. BayouSlide
    Added them in above: most likely culprits were XML596G and XML597G, and possibly XLL570G. Curtis
  23. BayouSlide
    Checking my reloading logs, the lot numbers most likely involved were XML596G, XML597G and perhaps XLL570G. Curtis
  24. BayouSlide
    I do intend to give Winchester a call. I keep reloading logs with the primer lot numbers I use so I can narrow it down to a couple of possibilities. Everyone likes to pass the buck regarding product defects if they can get away with it, but the majority of the damage has occurred in the last couple thousand rounds and finding primers where the cup failed seems to point a finger at the obvious culprit. The fired brass looks fine, until you look for the subtle giveaways that something may have gone wrong. No kidding, I was shocked to find the two cracked primers almost immediately on the top of the fired brass bucket, brass fired at my last weekend's match, one with the tiny crack from its base to edge of its shoulder, the other a pinpoint crack in the same area of the shoulder…barely visible unless you knew what you were looking for. This brass was in good shape, fired only a handful of times at most. I've polished the breech face lightly with ultra-fine Scotchbrite and it's smooth other than the deep pits. I'm assuming the breech face is thick enough to sustain substantial damage before it's trashed, though I'm reading some other Baer owners have faced breech damage as well in low round counts. Numerous reports of Springfield owners as well and often Winchester ammo or primers is mentioned, but with Springfield some metallurgy issues can be involved as well, according to owner reports and Springfield replacing some slides under warranty. Been doing a lot of reading on the forums and seem to remember a couple STIs mentioned as well, as jrb06 noted his was. Unfortunately I have quite a bit of ammo loaded with various lots of WLP, but am going to switch to Federal large pistol, before I damage the breech faces on my Colt Deltas as well. I dropped the guys at Alchemy Custom a line to see if I have any options others than slide replacement if it gets worse. Can't imagine Baer warranting out a slide under such circumstances where reloaded ammo with defective primers is apparently the reason for the problem. Curtis
  25. BayouSlide
    I've been noticing with increasing concern an extreme amount of breech face pitting on my Les Baer with only 4,000 rounds through it, nearly all with Winchester large pistol primers. On a various of forums for a number of years reloaders have been postulating about why Winchester primers have been causing these types of problems, with theories ranging from loose primer pockets in worn brass to certain brands of brass to loads that were too hot to seal the primer to loads that were too light to seal the primer, etc., etc. After today, you can put me down on the side of those who claim the problem is probably due to failures in the primer cup. I went through some recently fired reloads and found a couple with a little soot, actually just a little dirt, around the outer ring of the primer pocket. Note, these were from middle of the road target loads of 230 gr FMJ Zeros over 4.7 grains of Titegroup with a mid 170s PF. Popped a couple of the primers and discovered that, in one, the cup had cracked lengthwise along the side upon firing, allowing hot gas to vent through the top edge of the crack right onto the breech face. The other had just a pinhole crack in the same portion of the primer shoulder. It was very subtle. Unless you knew exactly what you're looking for, the primer failure was only obvious once the fired primer had been removed. You could see just the tiny top edge of the crack near the shoulder of the primer. Thanks a bunch, Winchester, sure glad I have a few thousand of these loaded up and ready to go . No way knowing exactly when these were produced because my Winchester primers came from a variety of sources over a number of years but, FWIW, I believe that these were all from lot numbers beginning with XML. I had planned on switching over to Federal large pistol anyway…just wish I had done so sooner. If you're using WLP and see pitting or erosion, carefully examine some fired cases for the issue. Curtis Edited: to add some additional tags
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