matt2ace Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) I was ROing a shooter at a local match last month when he slipped and fell while moving forward through a opening between 2 walls. I was able to observe his gun and hand during the entire episode and it was clear to me that he was in complete control the gun during fall and recovery. Gun never touched the ground His finger was outside of the trigger guard at all times No 180 violation Shooter recovered very quickly (and safely) and I did not stop him from continuing the stage to completion. I felt that I had made the right call at the time, but later I did look through rule book to see if this situation was covered. I could not find anything specific to falling, but I did feel that all of the safety rules were met by his actions during the fall. I could have stopped him simply because he might have been injured or otherwise shaken up by the event which would have meant a reshoot if I did not DQ him. I felt that was his call and my only responsibility was assure he shot a safe stage which I believe was the case otherwise I would have DQ'd him. I would welcome any thoughts from those who might have experienced anything similar either as the shooter or the RO. Edited December 12, 2008 by matt2ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You made the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sounds good to me. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You need to be careful - if you think the competitor hit the ground with the muzzle of the gun, stop the shooter, check the bore for obstructions and grant a reshoot if there is no obstruction (if there is an obstruction, the shooter should thank you for stopping him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 A clear call...you made the right one IMO. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sounds like you made the right call. I was RO'ing one of the top dogs at an indoor match when he slipped. Gun did a nice arc following the 180, but he never broke it so I didn't say a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Been there, Run to the end of a COF (Sideways movement) shooting around a wall, as the last shots are fired while airborne, maintain muzzle control and hit ground, HARD, No 180 breal, no AD, no shot fired while faulting. Too bad we don't give style points. But no call for a DQ, You did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 From here it sounds like a good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 From my vantage point, it looks safely on the fairway. (<< obsure reference? Anyone? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Your call was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You've got it right....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You need to be careful - if you think the competitor hit the ground with the muzzle of the gun, stop the shooter, check the bore for obstructions and grant a reshoot if there is no obstruction (if there is an obstruction, the shooter should thank you for stopping him). Thats good Rob. I never thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Ya done good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I have noticed that experienced RO's tend to find a way to watch the gun pretty closely when you are on your way down LOL. I went down firing at A5 this year. I was in DEEP sand, got a foot caught completely under a 2"x2" fault line board and there was nothing to do but fall. I got all but one hit before I hit the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt2ace Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 You need to be careful - if you think the competitor hit the ground with the muzzle of the gun, stop the shooter, check the bore for obstructions and grant a reshoot if there is no obstruction (if there is an obstruction, the shooter should thank you for stopping him). Good point Rob, one I will keep in mind if (when) it happens again. I am confident, in this case, that the muzzle never impacted the ground. This incident along with a DQ for a 180 at the same match (warned him once half-way through stage and he still managed to 180 on the last array) made me realize just how similar ROing is to shooting a stage. I think of BE's comments on 'action without thought' when shooting. We do much the same when we RO. We don't think about the rules when we RO, we simply react automatically to actions by the shooter. When I warned the shooter about getting close the 180, the words came out instantly. When I stopped him, it was the same thing, just a instant reaction.....no thought involved. When the shooter fell down, it was much the same reaction.....all of the analysis of what happened to him occured after he completed the stage, but it all felt right at that moment. This all was something of an epiphany for me at the time (look it up, it is joy to have them) Shooting well is about 'action without thought'......running shooters safely through a stage is no different. With exception of start/finish commands, it's about being confident that you can see, judge, and take immediate action when a unsafe condition occurs, the rest of the time your just a spectator with a timer in your hand. Thanks for the comments and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 All is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Sounds like a good call to me. I have had a 3 people fall while I was running them and all 3 maintained good safe control...the scariest incident was while moving with a shooter going left to right, the shooter slipped falling forward and catching them selves with their weak hand... I looked like Wiley Coyote hitting the breaks trying not to get out in front of the shooter ... Lesson learned!!! don't try to match speed with your shooter... and always maintain a safe following distance...especially on long movements in field courses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 If you are in the process of falling, would you be breaking any rules if you engaged a target in the process? This thought occured to me one time I was falling since I had the muzzle pointed at the target and ample time to put two shots into it before I hit the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Sure... I have done it several times I have found that I can fire several shots and get the gun on safe before I hit the ground. As long as the shooter maintained control of the gun. Didn't sweep himself and didn't 180 there is nothing to keep him from engaging targets on the way down. Peter Adams FY 39604 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Atta-Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Seems like a good call. From my vantage point, it looks safely on the fairway. (<< obsure reference? Anyone? ) I got nothin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Absolutely the right call given what you have stated. Nice job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I just re-read this bit by Matt2Ace: I think of BE's comments on 'action without thought' when shooting. We do much the same when we RO. We don't think about the rules when we RO, we simply react automatically to actions by the shooter. When I warned the shooter about getting close the 180, the words came out instantly. When I stopped him, it was the same thing, just a instant reaction.....no thought involved. When the shooter fell down, it was much the same reaction.....all of the analysis of what happened to him occured after he completed the stage, but it all felt right at that moment. That's pretty good stuff! I agree with the idea that flow and fluidity applies as much (or more) to when I'm running a shooter as it does when I'm the competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Carlin Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Shortly after I started to RO I had an experience similar to the one described. It was raining and the bays were muddy at South River Gun Club, and I was running Mike W. (several times a state trap champion who also is a pretty darn good USPSA shooter). There was a piece of carpet to kneel on to shoot through a barrel. He hit that carpet and applied the brakes, his feet went out from under him. He landed heavily flat on his back with his legs up. He gun tracked straight and level throughout the entire maneuver. He began engaging targets after dropping his right leg and bringing the pistol to bear through the barrels on the targets. It was probably the fastest time from arrival to engagement at that barrel. It never occurred to me to DQ him. In fact I have told this story many times to illustrate just how good gun handling is in the USPSA/IPSC realm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rusert Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 From my vantage point, it looks safely on the fairway. (<< obsure reference? Anyone? ) OK, I'm a little late to the party, but is it Tiger Woods Golf (Wii)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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