USPSA purchases Steel Challenge

[Alan Meek]

I started my competitive shooting in So Cal and the Steel Challenge was one of the first Major matches I attended, I was there when the Steel Challenge was owned by Don Hamilton. Was there for the sale of the Steel Challenge to Kirby Smith. So I have seen first hand what happens when you try to change an Established Match that is successful. During my upcoming tenure on the USPSA BoD I can assure you that I will steadfast defend the Steel Challenge to continue in the traditions that have become the Event we know as the Steel Challenge.

Alan Meek

USPSA

Director Area 8 (Elect)

And now a word from our sponsors...

(insert baby kissing and handshakes with women and minorities...fade out to: "God Bless America") He-He

Fade out to "Are you ready" and lets get shooting

[Jim O'Young]

Well, I guess I better chime in now.

First, I want to give my deepest gratitude to the Mikes for creating this match in the first place, resurrecting in 1997 and for the 10 years of hard work they and their team have spent building it into what it is today.

I also want to congratulate USPSA on the purchase of the match and its desire to “bring it to a new level”. Hopefully their efforts will steer that new level to be in the positive direction. If it’s not broken, please don’t break it.

For those of you who don’t know me, the Steel Challenge is my passion in life. I have shot every Challenge since 1987 and next to Robbie & Jerry, have the most Challenges under my belt (18). It is really the only match I shoot. The Mikes traditionally make me shooter entry #1 and have honored me with the gift of SCSA Life member #1; my license plates are “STL CHAL” and “SPD OPTN” and I probably even have the world’s largest collection of steelguns (for both open & limited). My year revolves around the 3rd Sat. in August. So needless to say, any change to the Steel Challenge will have some effect on my life.

Privileged to be an “inside” member of the SC family, I knew about the sale of the match ever since the Mikes had informed me several months ago. Dalton even went as far as to joke that they put me on “suicide watch” before telling me. It was my deepest hope that the new owners would carefully study in detail and LEARN & APPLY what makes this event successful and NOT try to change it into something that it isn’t. I have been through the SWPL, Hamilton & Madigan, Smith and Dalton & Fichman regimes and have seen a lot of attempts at growing and changing the match, some great and some disastrous. In virtually every case, a major change away from the original “formula” of the match (e.g. location, course of fire, classification, prize distribution, etc.) has yielded a negative result. Returning back to the basics gave positive results and growth.

Karl Rhen wrote an excellent and well thought out post giving his thoughts on why the SC is successful, all of which I agree with. Yes, the SC is a shooting match, but the shooting is only a part of it. For me, here are some of the reasons why I come back every year:

1. Piru. So what if it’s hot & dusty? Making the turn onto the bumpy road and driving past all of the ranges in the Thompson facility is like a history lesson in practical shooting. The match range, the practice range (w/ all of the stages) and the side matches, all within a stones throw from each other can’t be beat. For me, Disneyland isn’t the “Happiest place on earth”, Piru is.

2. Hotels & restaurants. The people at the Hampton Inn reserve “my” room and the people at Ralph’s don’t have to ask me for my sandwich order. Claim Jumper, Outback Steakhouse, Macaroni Grill, Wood Ranch, and Red Lobster- all in the immediate area. Need I say more?

3. The dates. As I had mentioned, my year revolves around the 3rd Sat. in August. Having a consistent date allows me to prepare for the event and plan & schedule other aspects of my life.

4. The Range staff. Year after year, the same great people on “their” stages want to see you shoot your best. Loren & Tammy on Roundabout, Jim on Smoke & Hope, Don on Speed Option, Tom & Teri on Accelerator (formerly Showdown), Jim & Mike Jr. on Outer Limits, and yes, even Gene on 5 to Go. Mike Goodman & Jaime Mendoza make sure we get all of our hits. At the practice range, Doug will do anything for you.

5. The shooters. Every year you see a core group of dedicated steel shooters all trying to do their best, but not at your expense. Everybody wants to see each other progress and succeed. Mac winning Open & Limited, Max winning after Katrina, KC growing up and becoming champion, seeing Jamie Foote do so well this year compared to the 1st time he shot the match, shooting together with Bud Bond in his last SC.

6. The results. Printed sheets for you to take and play “what if” on the way home.

7. The prizes and the way they are distributed. Top down, prize inventory sheets full of LOTS of great stuff. Many other chances to win guns & prizes by random luck of the draw.

8. NSSF support of the event. The NSSF has recognized the SC as a venue and vehicle to support & promote the shooting sports. As a shooter, I feel the responsibility to do anything I can to help in this effort.

As with anything, change is inevitable. One of the many reasons that the Mikes succeeded was that they learned from others’ mistakes and they asked and LISTENED to the shooters and the sponsors, before making any major changes. USPSA has an incredible opportunity to grow or blow the SC. Hopefully; they will take this path and not break what isn’t broken.

Thanks for reading,

Jim

(My apologies to Gary & Alan if I’m beating a dead horse. This subject is an emotional one and I just needed to vent a little.)

[gotm4]

I think the purchase is a good thing and will help not hurt USPSA.

[JFD]

While I'm going to be inactive in USPSA for the forseeable future, I had planned on keeping my and my wife's memberships active to support USPSA. Since I'm not in favor of my dues being used for the purpose of secretly buying the rights to the SC, which if expanded to the Sectional and Area levels will be in direct competition with USPSA clubs for shooters and workers, I'm going to save my money and let my memberships expire as a response to this purchase, as well as the "tough $hit if you don't like it" attitude of the BOD members posting here.

One would think our President(try not to laugh) or a BOD member would have thought to post this announcement on the USPSA forum if it's such a great thing.

[Gary Stevens]

What BOD member took a "tough shit" attitude? I know I have tried in everyway possible to constructively explain my part in all of this. The only BOD members who have posted here are Bruce Gary, Rob Boudrie, Alan Meek (Area 8 elect) and myself. I don't remember any taking the "tough shit" approach.

Gary

Edited December 13, 2007 by Gary Stevens

[Chuck Anderson]

It somewhat amazes me that there are continual post about what we should not change regarding the SC, when we have stated fairly clearly that we aren't changing anything.

Gary

Gary, no offense, and I think the purchase will be a good one. You are going to get people giving their input about changes, and all sorts of other things, now because there was never another choice. USPSA never asked it's members anything about this, and I understand that it would have hosed negotiations. This is the first opportunity that members have had to be heard. While I appreciate three BOD members (and one elect) making their feelings known, three votes doesn't mean much. There are 6 other votes on the BOD and the BOD hasn't always presented a unified front on certain issues. Take the responses in stride. This is obviously a passionate subject for a great many people and there just isn't a lot of information out there yet.

[Barrettone]

While I'm going to be inactive in USPSA for the forseeable future, I had planned on keeping my and my wife's memberships active to support USPSA. Since I'm not in favor of my dues being used for the purpose of secretly buying the rights to the SC, which if expanded to the Sectional and Area levels will be in direct competition with USPSA clubs for shooters and workers, I'm going to save my money and let my memberships expire as a response to this purchase, as well as the "tough $hit if you don't like it" attitude of the BOD members posting here.

One would think our President(try not to laugh) or a BOD member would have thought to post this announcement on the USPSA forum if it's such a great thing.

The comments above are waaaaay out of line. The BoD quite eloquently explained that secrecy had to be maintained so that someone would not swoop in and buy the match out from under them. We elect these individuals to work in the best interests of the USPSA. We need to trust them to do the right thing. If they do not, we "vote da bums out" the next time around. We all paid a membership fee to have the services USPSA provides, and a vote in our Area and Presidential elections. Nothing more. If the BoD can reach out on a subject, they do (as in rules discussions). The ramifications were much more dynamic in this situation. I'll tell you what, had I known the match was for sale, I would have thought about purchasing it. Now how would all of you felt if they had disclosed it, and I bought it out from under USPSA? I am sure you would have felt screwed then too. So before you go "crying foul" and taking your ball and going home, realize that USPSA (with its ELECTED OFFICIALS) has a right to make decisions on your behalf and not disclose anything IF IT IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF USPSA. I agree that they needed to hold the cards close to their vest on this one. As for competition for shooters and workers at the club level, I couldn't disagree more. Stand-and-shoot steel will attract more new shooters and thus more people who want to get involved. SC matches are 10 times easier to set up than a USPSA match (I know as I have done both). I can set up a 4 stage match in 45 minutes. By contrast, I am at the range for 4-5 hours setting 3 freestyle and 2 standards exercises for our local matches (wall sections et al.). So if anything, this is going to offer us a recruiting tool and also give us a chance to grow this thing from the top down (over time as interest grows). I do not recall anybody saying "tough shit" or anything like it, so please refrain from the personal attacks. We are all on the same team, and fragmentation just makes things worse. For now, lets take a "wait and see" approach. It is easy to armchair quarterback this thing to death before it is even given a chance. If it really bothers you so much, speak with your vote, and actively campaign to create change. There are channels to go through to bring about change...use them...that is your right.

DVC,

Jeff

[Carmoney]

Yes, the SC is a shooting match, but the shooting is only a part of it.

Jim, thanks for your post. There's a great deal of value in continuity, isn't there? I developed the same kind of attachment to the Second Chance Pin Shoot, which was another match that was as much about the "whole experience" as the shooting itself.

even Gene on 5 to Go

Had to smile at this one! I only shot Steel Challenge once, but there's no forgetting Gene!

[Larry White]

The SC was for sale, someone was going to buy it. The 2 Mikes owned it and chose to sell it to USPSA, that should be enough for one side of the question. The BOD we elected(you or I may not have voted for one or more of them but WE elected them.) chose to buy it. That should cover the other side. Good or bad? Time will tell. If you have your shorts in enough of a knot to leave USPSA over it, someone may miss you, or maybe not. Grap a gun and shoot, you have a chance, so give the purchase a chance.----------------Larry

[Flexmoney]

JFD shared his thoughts and Barretone gave a reply on those issues.

I removed a few posts that were purely piling on and not furthering the discussion. (antagonistic and quarrelsome)

- Admin

[Nemo]

So USPSA didn’t consult me on this one… well, the NRA don’t ask me much about what they are going to do either, but I keep my membership. Piru is a long and expensive way from here, especially for three, so I may not attend a SC any time soon but if I could I would, and now that the match belongs to the organization to which I value my membership the most I will look into it with more interest.

If, like with the Single Stack Classic, for every Steel Challenge the USPSA gains members (membership fees out of the registration cost), those new members get interested in “the other side of USPSA” and start attending the non-steel matches (mission count $$), and USPSA makes money from the SC, then I’d like to look at this as a glass half full situation. So I say (not that what I say counts for anything) BRING IT!!

Now gotta go to figure out how to incorporate SC stages into the local match scheme.

Edited to add: Next in the acquisition list ICORE and IDPA!

Edited December 13, 2007 by Nemo

[SteveZ]

It somewhat amazes me that there are continual post about what we should not change regarding the SC, when we have stated fairly clearly that we aren't changing anything.

Gary

I think part of the issue here regarding the perceived impression about changing things is found in the Michael Bane interview with Dave Thomas. Dave pretty much eludes to the fact that the location will change out of California at some point in the future because of the "politics" in CA (won't say anything more than that because of forum rules)...and then Michael Bane takes the ball and runs with it. The take away from the interview...is that it's leaving California and that the Mike's sold the rights to SC to take it to the next level...and maybe taking it to the next level is contingent on leaving California (assuming the "next" level is a higher rather than lower one?)

[Carmoney]

IDPA!

I'll draw the line at that one. I would never support writing a check to the owner of IDPA.

[rgkeller]

"Now gotta go to figure out how to incorporate SC stages into the local match scheme."

More Steel. Less IPSC.

[Flexmoney]

It somewhat amazes me that there are continual post about what we should not change regarding the SC, when we have stated fairly clearly that we aren't changing anything.

Gary

I think part of the issue here regarding the perceived impression about changing things is found in the Michael Bane interview with Dave Thomas. Dave pretty much eludes to the fact that the location will change out of California at some point in the future because of the "politics" in CA (won't say anything more than that because of forum rules)...and then Michael Bane takes the ball and runs with it. The take away from the interview...is that it's leaving California and that the Mike's sold the rights to SC to take it to the next level...and maybe taking it to the next level is contingent on leaving California (assuming the "next" level is a higher rather than lower one?)

Let me float this...

What if the current location of THE match looks like it might not have legs? I don't know that to be the case, but what if THE match wasn't likely to be able to continue at Piru?

[Steve J]

I vote for Tulsa. They could handle all the venues with ease.

[Nemo]

I vote for Tulsa. They could handle all the venues with ease.

+1

[JThompson]

We are the USPSA... You will be assimilated.... Resistance is futile

Sorry. I couldn't help myself... I look at it this way. If we agree with it or not it doesn't really matter until the next vote. Let's try and keep positive about this. It has the possibility to be good for our sport by introducing it to new blood, which we need badly. Instead of getting pissed at something we haven't the power to change let's do what we can to make sure the BOD/Prez proceed in a way we feel will help the sport. I'm always dubious about secret meetings and keeping things from members... be that as it may... it's time to get beyond the knee jerk reaction to that type of decision and look for ways we can help it to grow and keep in on track.

For future purchases of this sort I think the membership has the right to voice their opinion or ya'll might have served your last term. Frankly, I don't care if something is "bought out" from underneath us. It wasn't broke and it could have neg repercussions as well as positive ones. I tend to think the positive is worth the risk, but that's not my point here. The thoughts here could have helped in that the Mike's could have seen that we weren't as excited about it as some of our board was. Don't think we were the only dog in the fight because it wasn't broadcast to the members. I don't know the details, but I find it hard to believe others didn't have a shot at it as well.

Edited December 13, 2007 by JThompson

[Middle Man]

It somewhat amazes me that there are continual post about what we should not change regarding the SC, when we have stated fairly clearly that we aren't changing anything.

Gary

I think part of the issue here regarding the perceived impression about changing things is found in the Michael Bane interview with Dave Thomas. Dave pretty much eludes to the fact that the location will change out of California at some point in the future because of the "politics" in CA (won't say anything more than that because of forum rules)...and then Michael Bane takes the ball and runs with it. The take away from the interview...is that it's leaving California and that the Mike's sold the rights to SC to take it to the next level...and maybe taking it to the next level is contingent on leaving California (assuming the "next" level is a higher rather than lower one?)

Let me float this...

What if the current location of THE match looks like it might not have legs? I don't know that to be the case, but what if THE match wasn't likely to be able to continue at Piru?

In case some posters are not aware of the facts as they exist.

Three words: Lead Ammunition Ban

Google it, it is a potential scenario and a near reality in California.

As for the purchase of SC, I think it's a wonderful move. I'd love to try out shooting steel. Some of the dissenters on this thread are ignoring similar past moves with 3gun/multi-gun and Single Stack Classic.

[AlamoShooter]

Nice post from my Brother ... Jim O Young and Karl I'm a new comer to attending the World shoot. = I have only been for the past eight years. The things I value in life are the friends that cheer me on and let me have joy in their victories.

Most of us that shoot the event shoot to out run our own faults,

The people that shoot and help with the event encourages each other like we mite help a best friend with a "Stutter".

I don't think ware that takes place is as important as the people. Its the combination that makes the door open to the great event.

No one person or place is the heart of this event & Sport. If the event has to move , I hope no one gets left behind.

Mike D. & Mike F. are smart guys I Trust that they put more importance on keeping the combination safe than they did on what the cost of the sale was. IF it was just about the money the event would have gone out to high bidder.

Hey & - Gene , AKA Gunny Five To Go , = Gene is absolutely my all time favorite RO. With Out a doubt every single person that shoots his event gets the same opportunity for a quiet run with out distractions and 100% of his attention.

Jamie

Edited December 13, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[Barrettone]

We are the USPSA... You will be assimilated.... Resistance is futile

ROTFLMAO!!! :goof:

Gary Stevens...You out there???

Hilarious.

[AlamoShooter]

We are the USPSA... You will be assimilated.... Resistance is futile

Yea yea wellll ahh well A > you just try and make me only put six round in MY revolver

Assimilate this

Edited December 13, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[Chriss Grube]

Don't worry if they decide to buy IDPA they won't ask you anyway!

[Erhardt]

Well, I guess I better chime in now.

JIM - Not too many people reading this thread really understand how important your opinion is. I am glad you did chime in. Like you I knew about the sale early on and spoke to Dalton at some length about who is interested in buying the match and who I thought would be good and why. Each potential buyer had strengths and weaknesses but overall USPSA was the most logical choice to continue on with Dalton and Fichman's vision. Obviously they saw it that way too.

In talking to Dalton I told him how important it would be for he and Fichman to guide the transition with shooters, sponsors and running the match itself. He understood completely that their knowledge base was needed to make it work. This sale was not as much about money as it was about preserving the future of the Steel Challenge. And that future isn't one of maintaining its current position but growing to the next level. The Dalton/Fichman vision of the shooting sports is grand in scope and anybody thinking about an admin role in the shooting sports should sit down with them. USPSA understands this very well.

The members of the BoD that have spoken up here deserve a lot of credit. They made the right decision(s) about the Steel Challenge and have taken a raft of sh*t from some people here with far more composure than I would. This should tell those doubting this whole move a little about the people they elected to run USPSA.

As for the future of the Steel Challenge, in my conversations with Dave Thomas at no time was there any suggestion that the match would be changed. It wasn't even an issue. Dalton and Fichman are held in the highest regard and were brought in as consultants to educate USPSA personnel on the organization of the match. They will be at SHOT to help with sponsors. They will also serve as match directors in 2008.

In 2007 the Steel Challenge reached $390,000 in cash and prizes and got to the point where, without the help of staff and infrastructure, Dalton and Fichman could not take it much further. They'd be the first to admit that. They knew now was the right time to make the transition because the match is the strongest it has ever been and has momentum. Dalton and Fichman also have enough passion and energy for this match that they can work to transition the match correctly.

I know that the people at USPSA headquarters are very excited about the Steel Challenge. I know Dalton and Fichman are excited about the possibilities that exist with the resources at USPSA's disposal. While some people take this opportunity to dream up the negative possibilities, the reality is that the Steel Challenge has such a strong core of support made up of people like you, Jim, and others that would step in to help at a moment's notice out of love for the match and for Dalton and Fichman, that I find it hard to imagine anything but success. And hell, you know I'm already updating my PR plan I drew up in 2004 without even having to be asked or told to. Some day in the future when there are large Steel Challenge matches going on throughout the country and an association of shooters clamoring to see their national ranking on Smoke & Hope and how far behind KC they are, we'll look back at this moment and think, "What the hell was I worried about. This was a great move." - PAUL ERHARDT

[Jim Norman]

On topic, but back a few posts...

OK, one major concern has been how are the local staffs of USPSA clubs going to handle running SC type matches at their clubs.

Here is our experiance at Old Bridge. We have a very active USPSA Club, we run 12 sanctioned matches, a shotgun match and a multi-gun match, PLUS 23 indoor practice matches. In addition we have a VERY strong Steel organization. There are three monthly steel matches, One has essentially SC stages, one has "Steel" in that there are 5 targets and 5 shots. and one is Knockdown.

Here is the GOOD NEWS. We have tremendous cross over from shooters, but we have essentially two completely different crews. Neither team gets over-worked to an extreme.

Both types of match feed the other so we are all benefiting.

Jim