USPSA purchases Steel Challenge

[Rob Boudrie]

then they evidently didn't consider the reactions of the members thoroughly

It was obvious to me that some members would love it, some would hate it and some would not care. If "everyone will love it" becomes a requirement for doing anything, then nothing will get done.

USPSA has come a long way towards openness in recent years. I remember reading an article by John Sayle many years ago about "why bod meetings are closed to the members". Today, all one has to do is contact HQ 30 days before a meeting to request an observer seat (offered on a "space available" basis, but no one has ever been turned down). While I cannot take exclusive credit for that, I am proud to say that I was part of the initial subset of board members proposing open meetings.

There will always be people not satisfied with the level of openness. I actually spoke to one member who felt that any member should have access to data like "the maximum we are prepared to offer" or "the minimum we are willing to accept" when making an offer to buy or sell an asset.

Like any corporate acquisition, the deal is a calculated risk. The upside is that we increase the prominence of USPSA in the competetive marketplace of action shooting organizations, and increase our presence as "the name brand" when the media (TV, gun press, etc.) discuss action shooting sports. Sorry, but I am not interested in being the "equal" of the other action sport shooting organization when we get coverage in the press, industry recognition, etc. I want USPSA to be #1.

[AlamoShooter]

After hearing how the BOD was considering eliminating Divisions

Then adding in the actual current drain on our members who pitch in as R.O.'s,

It must be questioned at what point will a volunteer organization get maxed out?

Are we going to be seeing a move towards full time professional Range Officers, and if so at what cost?

Will USPSA ultimately become the overall organization with Shells for the various discipline types, Practical Handgun, Multi-Gun, Steel Challenge, ICORE, Bianchi, Masters, Bullseye, Highpower, Smallbore, Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays, Combat Clays, PPC, Olympic, ?Second Chance? the list could be quite lengthy?

What is the Presidents Vision behind the Plans?

At worst case we may see a drain and a reduction of current Nationals. At best it will raise awareness of USPSA and help elevate all of our Nationals to a higher level.

It may be worth a try, our organization has recovered from bad deals in the past and I doubt if this venture would be an organization killer.

Dave Williams, L593 (In for the long haul since 1978).

Dave I can appreciate your point of view and maybe point out just a few things

The first is a guess about divisions Steel Challenge would not be a divisions = for it to work it has to be separate just like 3gun is separate. ?I don't know for shore but the 3 gun is not a drain on USPSA in a big way is it?

What I do know about is the RO' gettting over worked. S.C would add new RO s getting into the pool. It is five times easier to bring in a RO for steel. I have RO steel for 18 years, but I barley feel confident on some of the IPSC stages.

It is easier to learn to shoot and to RO steel. only diff I see is that the RO learns to watch the shooter and the target.

?Sporting Clays and Skeet? Why not run for pres of the USA Sporting clays had over 1,300 participants in its nationals this year = that is 1,300 shooters no double entries =Skeet is Way past that.

With the USPSA Nationals going to a wait list every year I don't see how the S.C. could cause a reduction.

A full time professional Range Officers I like that Idea = It would be great when -OUR- sport can support that. I hope the time is very near.

Jamie

Edited December 14, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[Sestock]

This will be great to keep those USPSA shooters that can no longer move that well and have difficulty running through field courses active.

[glock-cop]

I also don't see why USPSA would buy the rights to the name. They could just have thier own match and call it the steel championship (like many clubs already do). It realy doesn't make sense if they don't move the match around, use divisions and classifications. I think participation in a major match of any kind comes down to dollars. How much does it cost me to travel and shoot the match. I'll never be rich shooting any type of match. I just do it for fun and sometimes get soemthing to hang on the wall. There are many shooting sports. Some people shoot them all and some people stick to 1 or 2 of them. Just my thoughts.

[pskys2]

Gary: I realize that it will be a choice, and it would be fun.

AlamoShooter: I wasn't being sarcastic about "All" Types under one roof. I was just curious as to a future vision. I realize the SC isn't going to be considered a Division and that brought up the under one roof thought.

Once I started thinking of SC, ICORE, Bianchi, well those were Pistol then I thought we have branched into 3 gun, Multi-Gun and it wouldn't be a stretch to consider including others. If it was feasible and a cooperative venture it might be a good thing. I know it's far fetched, but then I never saw the SC coming either. Once I start looking out of the box, things are pretty wide open.

I was a Section Coordinator for several years and doubled the number of clubs in my section. This may well have implications of helping the S.C.'s sell USPSA. I hope so.

I can easily envision a Combat Clays course/match and there are probably some around already.

The one thing to remember is if there is a Vision to change USPSA, and whether intentionall or unintentionall this probably borders on it, then that Vision of Change is a worthwhile and necessary topic for future elections.

[ong45]

Hi everyone,

I for one am glad that they purchased it. Not to stir the pot, but after 08 the best thing for the Challenge would be to move it the heck out of California. Not to make it political, with their restrictive gun laws and anti gun attitudes in the state why do we reward them by running a national level match there. I suggest we move it to Rio Salado here in Arizona. We already have the facility, the competitors (we run what is probably the nations largest weekly steel match every Tuesday night) The Steel Callenge was in Piru becasue Mike and Mike were there now if they no longer own the match there is no reason to keep the match there. Sorry if I offended and people from the country of Calfornia, but that is my opinion.

Tough decision, you have to realize that part of the reason the SC is so succesful is the devotion of the majority of participants most of which are from Cali. Maybe with uspsa getting into the steel game more clubs around the country will be encouraged to try steel and eventually moving the match might be viable.

It was obvious to me that some members would love it, some would hate it and some would not care. If "everyone will love it" becomes a requirement for doing anything, then nothing will get done.

Like any corporate acquisition, the deal is a calculated risk. The upside is that we increase the prominence of USPSA in the competetive marketplace of action shooting organizations, and increase our presence as "the name brand" when the media (TV, gun press, etc.) discuss action shooting sports. Sorry, but I am not interested in being the "equal" of the other action sport shooting organization when we get coverage in the press, industry recognition, etc. I want USPSA to be #1.

I don't shoot 3 gun but i don't bitch when i get my 3 gun quarterly ( front sight )

I applaud the bod for taking this on, SC is a great vehicle to promote the shooting sports and i believe that the board is doing the shooting community a great service.

The Mikes wouldn't give their baby to just anyone with a wad of money, this match makes money but not enough for it to be the main reason for any sane person(s) to take this on. This is a good thing, lets do all we can to keep it going.

[aaronjbush12]

WOW 8 pages! Am I the only one that thinks more matches = more fun? I have shot the steel challenge since

87 and through 4 different owners and all were an absolute blast! With USPSA involved it can only mean more

opportunities to get out and shoot, is that really a bad thing?? Free you minds...Relax its going to be OK

[Chuck D]

Is the purchase of The Bianchi Cup next......

As far as exposure is concerned, where else in print media besides American Handgunner Magazine is the Steel Challenge match covered ? How about USPSA shooting in general (with the obvious exception of Front Sight) ?

I don't buy for a second USPSA bought the Steel Challenge for "increased exposure opportunities." If you want to make the point that USPSA bought this match in order to bring the two disclipines under one roof and thereby grow membership numbers...then this purchase makes sense.

USPSA shooters for the most part are "cross disclipine" participants. Where will the "actual" growth come from and will it be significant enough to justify the purchase ?

I hope it works...I'd LOVE a good regional Steel shooting program and would be more than willing to participate as long as USPSA membership isn't mandatory.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Chuck D

[Ron Ankeny]

WOW 8 pages! Am I the only one that thinks more matches = more fun?

Nah, you aren't the only one. I just heard back from Bruce Gary and we will be holding a Wyoming State Steel Challenge Championship, hosted by the Wind River Practical Shooters, this spring. I am shooting for the end of May, but details need to be hammered out with neighboring clubs so we don't conflict with any of their plans. I think we need to support the new endeavor as best we can.

[ima45dv8]

Who says it has to be print media Chuck? What I see as a pretty big opportunity is television coverage. We all know USPSA scoring makes it difficult to create a program that is interesting to people who don't already shoot the game. The very nature of the scoring of a Steel Challenge makes it much easier to produce a show that grabs a non-SC/non-USUSA shooter's attention. Michael Bane has made the exact same point on this forum more than once.

Now couple that coverage with the new USPSA branding and it's very possible increase this organization's exposure.

Several have made the point that SC is a great way to initiate new shooters, many of whom then venture over to an action-type shooting event once their comfort factor is up. Couple that with the fact that less-mobile shooters with a few seasons under their belt sometimes find that venue more desirable and a place where they can still be competitive, and I'd say USPSA *needs* the Steel CHallenge.

My thanks to the BoD for this bold move.

(and No, I'm not upsetse you didn't ask me first ).

[Flexmoney]

USPSA shooters for the most part are "cross disclipine" participants. Where will the "actual" growth come from and will it be significant enough to justify the purchase ?

Chuck,

I have run a local Steel Challege match for the last few years. About half the shooters at SC are not USPSA shooters. I get NRA/Biachi shooters, IDPA, misc., and a whole flock of the newbies.

The non-USPSA shooters are there.

[Rob Boudrie]

I don't buy for a second USPSA bought the Steel Challenge for "increased exposure opportunities."

There were 9 people voting, and each had their own reasons. There was never a formal "finding" as to "why", so all any of those people, myself included, can do is comment on their personal reasons for voting the way they did.

I started out on the fence and fell over to the "buy" side for several reasons:

- An exceptional amount of detailed research by Dave Thomas and Bruce Gary

- Strong committment to make it work from Dave Thomas.

- A desire to see USPSA as #1. I believe the "exposure" is not just the occasional TV show, gun magazine article, or mention in an article about a product or shooter but our general reputation and exposure that is more than the sum of the parts, and that requires being second to none in all or nearly all venues of exposure.

- It's also a way to expose USPSA to people who aren't currently members - many of the SC shotoers come from other sports, shoot SC only, or for other reasons never got around to joining USPSA.

[rgkeller]

USPSA shooters for the most part are "cross disclipine" participants. Where will the "actual" growth come from and will it be significant enough to justify the purchase ?

Chuck,

I have run a local Steel Challege match for the last few years. About half the shooters at SC are not USPSA shooters. I get NRA/Biachi shooters, IDPA, misc., and a whole flock of the newbies.

The non-USPSA shooters are there.

So, for you, what does USPSA bring to your party?

[Jaxshooter]

I am 57 years old and this type of match will certainly make me more competitive vs running and gunning. I do not however want this to dilute the quantity or quality of current USPSA matches that I enjoy shooting.

There are some clubs that want steel shooting to stop. At these clubs this will be a no go.(1 of 4 USPSA affiliated clubs that I shoot monthly).

Skeet, trap and sporting clays have been mentioned in several posts, they do not get any more exposure in print or media than we do except in thier own monthly publications. If the USPSA can figure out how to open the Nationals fields to 1300 + shooters that are in an area for a minimum of a week usually 10 days the financial impact on the busimesses in the area would be realized.

That makes for local sponsorship and cooperation.

[Carlos]

This will be great to keep those USPSA shooters that can no longer move that well and have difficulty running through field courses active.

Doug, I could not agree with you more.

In addition this wise move by our BOD will help bridge the gap between us & those who compete in SASS (since Steel challenge has a Cowboy Division) and right now there is little cross-over between the sports - least around here anyway; I believe its the same all over the US.

Furthermore, the great sport of GSSF is great for beginners, but its a long, wide jump to USPSA and local Steel Challenge will help bridge the gap between GSSF and USPSA.

And the addition of a .22 class is perfect for Juniors (our future and the key to our survival) and many significant others who can certainly handle a regular USPSA gun, but who feel more comfy with a .22 (know anyone like that? I do).

I am having a very difficult time seeing ANY downside to us buying Steel Challenge. Good move BOD

[Flexmoney]

USPSA shooters for the most part are "cross disclipine" participants. Where will the "actual" growth come from and will it be significant enough to justify the purchase ?

Chuck,

I have run a local Steel Challege match for the last few years. About half the shooters at SC are not USPSA shooters. I get NRA/Biachi shooters, IDPA, misc., and a whole flock of the newbies.

The non-USPSA shooters are there.

So, for you, what does USPSA bring to your party?

For me...coming from a Match Director standpoint, USPSA brings some exposure, backing, desire, support...etc.

As an USPSA Section Coordinator, I see a lot of clubs that we might be able to get into with SC...that we just weren't going to get into with USPSA very easily.

As a shooter, more opportunities to compete in a fantastic shooting sport

[Barrettone]

OK, Time for one of my dumb questions.

A CLUB, is currently running a very successful Annua Steel Match. 7 stages, 150+ competitors, $35k in prizes.

The club has written a very user friendly scoring system (Makes EzWinScore look like amateur hour)

Same club runs a monthly match 40-70 shooters. multiple guns, side matches.

Same club also runs the same number and level of Knock-Down Steel Matches.

The club has its own classification system in place based upon performance on the stages it uses.

No $ sent out to any other organization, no interference either.

What is the up side for a club like this?

Why should they affiliate?

Jim

And Jim, this is why I FEEL that at some point USPSA would need to have a comprehensive classification system put into place to have something that the clubs don't already have (at least not as intricate as USPSA does). It is the only "trip-hammer" that would prompt an activity-credit based system. The BoD (for obvious reasons...and all quite legitimate I might add) probably doesn't want to cross that bridge just yet, as they are still navigating their way through this thing, and it is being built from the top-down and not from the top-up as USPSA was origionally created. We are starting with a National Level match.

The next obvious thing would be to have area, followed by state matches. After acheiving that, then, and only then, would it seem prudent to address the localization issue and how to organize it at that level. It will take some creative thinking to get a club to pay an activity credit as there needs to be a real and perceived intrinsic value to paying that $1-$3 a shooter to USPSA SC. I think realistically, it is a 3 year deal before we are really there. A couple of Area SC's will pop up this year, next year, maybe all areas and a couple of sectionals. Year after that, we might see quite a few sectionals, and localized interest.

I think, in the beginning, you let it take its own form. See what clubs do on their own, and then identify your target market and their needs. Maybe it is a scoring system, match advertising, classification and specialized RO training that USPSA SC offers in exchange for some meager activity credit. Maybe it never develops on the local level to that degree and we just keep the national match and some area venues as it would "water down" the national event and over-tax sponsors. I think we need to keep an open mind and let the shooters decide what they want it to be. The BoD has presented us with a tremendous opportunity here. It is what we want to make of it. Lets work with them and try to make it what it needs to be.

Just my .02

<edited to ad: When I say USPSA SC, I am referring to USPSA Steel Championship, NOT that there will be additional SC's and AD's for it!>

Edited December 15, 2007 by Barrettone

[rgkeller]

So you envision the role of ADs and SCs to expand to include promotion of Steel Challenge?

Edited December 14, 2007 by rgkeller

[Flexmoney]

So you envision the role of ADs and SCs to expand to include promotion of Steel Challenge?

Ain't like we are over-worked.

[Gregory_k]

We must have one hell of a cash overflow.

[kmca]

I"m happy....I just joined another organization without having to pay dues..

[Chriss Grube]

I just don't see the whole point of buying a match. What did we really get for the money?An idea, contact list? Intellectual property....yeah right like there aren't a bunch of clubs already running steel matches. I started at a steel club over 10 years ago, no affiliation to SC or USPSA. Local club members shooting steel. The PSA match sells out every year with no affiliation. As Jim asked where is the benefit or incentive to have a club join SC? The club gives up money for what?? Unless it is set up along the lines of USPSA which then conflicts / competes with USPSA for matches, time, RO's and members money. I truely believe that we need to focus our energy on growing USPSA, if and when we get that mastered then look at expanding shooting opportunities. The unfortunate reality is that USPSA is a fringe sport that requires a large commitment of time and money to play(especially with the ammo and gas costs lately). We are never going to be featured in mainstream media as some hope. It would be great but very unrealistic. I give Mike and Mike credit for a brilliant business move in selling a match and making a profit. Very few major matches have anything left after costs and some limited cash pay outs, they just received an undisclosed amount! Brilliant!!

[EricW]

Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup! Whup!

[kmca]

Isn't this a done deal? If it is, let's just make it work!

[Flexmoney]

I truely believe that we need to focus our energy on growing USPSA...

Listening to the radio interview, USPSA recently has had record year, after record year.

There is always room for improvement.

I'd be very interested in your ideas...and plans of implementation...to improve USPSA/IPSC. Please start a thread on that. We have at least half to BOD here and they are communicating with us.