USPSA purchases Steel Challenge

[Catfish]

Great move by the BoD. Thanks guys.

I think the ability to have a .22 class where juniors and new shooters can come play on an even footing in a recognized division is fantastic.

I'm already thinking of where we can purchase steel to run a match.

[XRe]

It somewhat amazes me that there are continual post about what we should not change regarding the SC, when we have stated fairly clearly that we aren't changing anything.

Gary

...The take away from the interview...is that it's leaving California and that the Mike's sold the rights to SC to take it to the next level...and maybe taking it to the next level is contingent on leaving California (assuming the "next" level is a higher rather than lower one?)

I haven't made it through the whole thread, yet - I haven't had much time for forum browsing this week, unfortunately.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Steve, here, Gary. I got the same impression from Dave's interview that Steve (and a number of others did). While you, and the other BOD members here may not have said "we're going to move it", Dave implied that it was a serious consideration, if not completely decided upon. I would suggest USPSA getting the messaging straight and tight before communicating via interviews, and such - if a move is not at all planned, Dave shouldn't have alluded to it

For the record, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I do think its a bit disingenuous to say that a local level club could not run a Steel Challenge match previously, though - our local club has been doing it for quite a while. SCSA had a club membership program much like USPSAs. The nice thing, now, is that we won't have to pay two club membership fees

[Jim Norman]

Since my last post has been quoted several times I would like to clarify a point or two.

Essentially I was asking Rhetorical Questions.

Our club is unlikely to do anything different in the next two - three years. We will likely wait a bit to see where all this goes. There can be benefits. If there is a classification system, it would be better than the Pot-Luck (Lewis System). I can't tell hao many times I have lost a couple hundred $ by being a few tenths too fast. Not that I would have won if we were classed, but then It would depend upon class finish.

A common set of rules. What is a DQ, What is a hit or a miss or the maximum time or....

A common set of commands. Common equipment rules for divisions.

There are benefits to the shooters. these SHOULD translate into eventual benefits to the clubs.

If they don't, then USPSA may still be right to own and run SC. It was pretty much a stand alone Match before. It supposedly made money. That should be a plus.

Maybe USPSA will learn about scheduling a match consistantly from SC.

Maybe USPSA will learn about marketing to the general public or at least the rest of the shooting public from SC.

None of this will be bad for USPSA

IF USPSA scews up the SC, that would be bad. From what I have read, from the people that know (A few board members that have posted) it appears that USPSA is concerned about making this right so I am one that will take a wait and see.

Apparently from a post I read, this news got leaked out early. There was supposed to be a proper roll-out. Didn't happen. Oh Well.

Now, lets get back to the important thing..... When and Where are the USPSA Nationals????????

Jim

[Chriss Grube]

Flex nice deflection from the issue of SC. We have discussed growing the sport many times on many threads. Since you are a mod please try to stay on topic! All I ask is simple answers of what did we really get for the undisclosed amount, why no announcement from anyone in an official capacity on the "official" organization site(we learn about a major issue from a pod cast?) and where is this going for the rest of us that aren't going to the PRK to shoot the SC????? All of the sudden people start the black helicopter crap, sorry but I didn't drink the kool aid. This might be great for us and it may not be. There is already conflicting info on moving the match. Questions of the officail party line are now a bad thing?? Yes we have grown and hopefully will continue but it was not that long ago it was going the other direction and we had some great wet lands for sale. Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it!!!

[benos]

Please ignore this thread drift.

I predict that even IDPA will eventually fall under the USPSA umbrella.)

That's huge!

[Carmoney]

The Mikes wouldn't give their baby to just anyone with a wad of money.....

They sold it to Kerby, didn't they?????

[Gary Stevens]

Hi Dave,

I haven't listened to the interview yet, I guess I should. All I know is what I have been told as a BOD member and that is there is no plan to move the mach. We have, I believe, an agreement with the range owner to continue on as normal with no muss or fuss.

Of course there are always possibilities, and possibilities require contingency plans. The range ownere might decide he doesn't want the match there any more. Some political move might require that the match be moved. I bet if I told you five years ago that there would be a law in California to micro stamp ammunition you might have thought that to be far fetched. Anything could happen, but if it doesn't there is no plan to move the match that I know of.

Gary

[Carmoney]

IF it was just about the money the event would have gone out to high bidder.

Was USPSA not the highest bidder? I'll bet we were.

[Carmoney]

If someone was going to buy it, I'm glad it was USPSA.

Me too. I agree entirely. As long as we didn't overpay. And since nobody seems to want to talk about the numbers, I'm a little concerned that might be the case.

[Chuck D]

Flex....

"cross disclipine" means shooters that compete in Action, USPSA/IPSC, Steel, IDPA ect, ect,ect....

most USPSA members "dabble" in more than one of the above.

Personally, I don't know of very many "steel specialists" and from a personal perspective, most "specialists" concentrate on their speciality vs. crossing the isle to shoot another sport.

Given this perspective...I'm at a loss as to where the growth patterns exist.

What the action shooting sports have yet to come to grips with is their demographics. We tend to "recycle" our members at a greater rate than we sign up new ones.

As far as print media is concerned, I would imagine that more potential participants would be reached by a quality atricle in a shooting magazine than an obscure "outdoors" channel that isn't accessible to everyone that would be interested in watching it. I won't even bother to comment on webcasts of shooting events or advertisements for shooting events.

For the sake of those that shoot steel (especially the challenge) I hope USPSA can pull it off.

Chriss Grube and I agree on almost nothing....but this issue.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Chuck D

[10mmdave]

Sorry if I missed this in a previous post as I did "speed read" a lot of it; Will membership be required in order to compete?

So ?? did Turtle's question get answered yet ?

I read thru all 9 pages and haven't see an answer yet.

Course the "no changes to the SC" statement might be the answer but I really doubt it

Good luck to the USPSA in this new endeavor.

[skeeter]

Sorry if I missed this in a previous post as I did "speed read" a lot of it; Will membership be required in order to compete?

So ?? did Turtle's question get answered yet ?

I read thru all 9 pages and haven't see an answer yet.

Course the "no changes to the SC" statement might be the answer but I really doubt it

Good luck to the USPSA in this new endeavor.

they did answer. No. you don't have to be a member.

we've been shooting SC here for years, it's good news. way to go guys.

[Flexmoney]

Flex....

Given this perspective...I'm at a loss as to where the growth patterns exist.

What the action shooting sports have yet to come to grips with is their demographics. We tend to "recycle" our members at a greater rate than we sign up new ones.

Chuck,

I thought I addressed your concern earlier. I probably need to work on my communication skills.

Having run one of the local Steel Challenge matches for the last few years, my hands on experience tells me that we aren't robbing away USPSA shooters to populate a Steel Challenge match.

Often, the contrary is true. The Steel Challenge feeds shooter into the local USPSA matches. It also maintains shooters that wouldn't choose USPSA as their game.

My experience tells me that we aren't just cutting the pie into different sized pieces, we are getting a bigger pie.

[Allgoodhits]

Does this mean the value of my Steel 4 Sale in CLASSIFIEDS may have gone up?

I think some of the USPA STEEL CHALLENGE can re replicated with this.

4-10" round

4-12" round

4- 18" - 24" rectangles

w/ 7 bases and 7 verticle stems

[Allgoodhits]

Please ignore this thread drift.

I predict that even IDPA will eventually fall under the USPSA umbrella.)

That's huge!

....and Bianchi Cup! Because the NRA is killing it!

[Flexmoney]

And since nobody seems to want to talk about the numbers, I'm a little concerned that might be the case.

I'm not sure this is the proper format for that kind of discussion. I'm pretty sure we can't expect the BOD members to post info like that here on Brian's Forum.

I'm sure the info will get out there...though it may not do so in the "I wanna know right now" style of information that we have become accustom to in the era of googles and blackberries.

[RIIID]

I would like to see some details on this purchase of the SC before I say it is a good or bad purchase.

Did we buy this from cash on hand or did we borrow the funds?

For those who don't want to say how much we paid we will find out when the '07 financial report is published in Front Sight.

If it was from our own money , is the SC going to replace it?

If so, is there a planned schedule of payback?

What did we actually buy? Just the name or is there something tangible?

How is USPSA going to take this to a new level?

I think USPSA needs to get in front of this quickly.

Rich

[Chuck D]

Flex...

What I'm trying to get at is that most USPSA shooters already participate in other forms of shooting. You won't be "robbing away" USPSA participants but I don't think you'll gain many "steel specialists" that shoot only steel nor do I think SC will see large increases in IPSC specialists. In my "hands on" experience...when the targets get smaller and farther away...the participation shrinks.

I'd be shocked if the net gain reaches into the triple digits.

I see where your coming from....I hope for SC participants your right.

[Flexmoney]

Chuck,

All I can tell ya is I've been there and done that. I've run the matches. I know who shows up. I know what games they shoot.

(for what it's worth...on the targets getting further and smaller...I addressed target selection and stage design, specifically, in a recent email to my Area Director that I believe he was going to share with the rest of the BOD)

[Chuck D]

I've been in the same boat...was match director for a steel shooting series at a local club for 4 years before the program died due to a combination of "small target syndrom" and inability to draw IPSC shooters in any quanity.

I'm not a "babe in the woods" with regards to this although you may in fact have a greater deal more experience than I.

Regardless... I don't see large increases in participation, especially in drawing SC specialists into the USPSA fold.

[Chuck Anderson]

I can't speak for New York but we get a lot of shooters out for steel. Small targets or not. Many of them are "steel specialists" I guess in that they only shoot speed steel. Many have made the jump over to IPSC and do very well. Steel stays pretty poplular for us. It's easy to set up, understand, and can be shot with very basic skills. We start a lot of juniors out on Speed steel as well. I think it will be a more logical progression for them into USPSA Action shooting. Not that steel is basic either. Some of the best shooters we have spend a lot of time at Speed Steel to work on the draw, speed and accuracy. There is just a couple less things (movement, hit factor, game plan) to learn at steel.

[Chuck D]

I guess we'll see soon enough.....

I hope it works out.

[Carmoney]

googles and blackberries.

Mmmmmmmm......googles of blackberries......

[Flexmoney]

I'm still getting up to speed on my dremel, Mike.

[XRe]

Of course there are always possibilities, and possibilities require contingency plans. The range ownere might decide he doesn't want the match there any more. Some political move might require that the match be moved.

No doubt - having plans ready in case of an untoward contingency is a good thing. I can easily envision circumstances getting worse in Cali - more easily than them getting better.

Karl raised some good points in his first post in the thread, of course - care should be taken before "fixing" things that already work. We have to realize, too, that Karl really loves SC I can't blame him for being concerned.

I'm sure Dave didn't mean to stir things up - he may not have realized how what he was saying might be construed to differ from the opinions of the BOD. Those who believe in black helicopters might also start thinking that the BOD is being kept in the dark about things