USPSA purchases Steel Challenge

[Rob Boudrie]

My second question would have to be.....................Why would USPSA spend the kind of money necessary to buy the rights to the Steel Challenge without discussing this with the membership? And how much did we (the membership) spend?

If everything were a matter of polling the membership, we could disband the board, and set up a secure online voting system for use any time there was a decision to be made.

In a case like this, it was not practical as polling the membership would have [a] introduced delay into the process - it's not like there are SC style events one can go our and buy on demand and told the entire world what we were considering doing - which would quite likely impact the dynamics of the sale process.

Could we build our own national steel championship? Sure, but we wouldn't have "market leadership" in the sector from Day one; wouldn't have the intertia of industry and press recognition; and would in a best case scenatio take years to build up to the point where the SC now is. This is very similar to situations where major companies like Microsoft buy companies that are already selling products they are fully capable of building in-house.

Also, the existing nature of the SC as separate and distinct entity will make it much easier for USPSA to treat it as a separate, and major, undertaking from our existing programs.

USPSA is a corporation in a competetive market sector, with numerous action sport shooting organizations going after the same market share in terms of competitor participation; organizational membership; host clubs; sponsor recognition and industry/press recognition. This is an opportunity for USPSA to increase the size of our "footprint in the marketplace" and increase the gap between us and other organizations that attempt to offer a similar product.

As to the finances - I expect all details will be released, but I will not take it upon myself to do so outside of the normal process (ie, release via the minutes; formal financial report or info from USPSA HQ).

Some basic realities:

• Is there risk? Yes
  
• Will buying it result in any reduction of services to current USPSA members? No
  
• Will buying it reduce USPSA's current cash reserves? Yes
  
• Will the SC challenge run at a profit and generate a return on investment? Hopefully
  
• Are we "betting the organization" (ie, would failure put USPSA out of business) ? No
  
• Are Dave Thomas and the USPSA staff who will be working on this project absolutely committed to its success? Yes
  

[Pin Shooter]

This could be way out of left field, but, would SC be a possible " demonstration sport" for upcoming olympics, due to it's non threatening style. With the support of a large membership "USPSA" we may finally have an opportunity to validate the shooting sports a little further.

Just an idea

[AlamoShooter]

GET A grip guys! Its Good for BOTH! Steel Challenge brings in USPSA members and USPSA brings shooters to steel.

I am at 15 years with my wife running a club. = you get worn down- last year the IPSC guys started to consistently help with my club set up. The end result was that every-one is benefiting. here in San Antonio a new IPSC club even started up. I see more new shooters than ever before, I know its because of good will and cooperation.

-IF -A guy thinking about getting in to the sport only sees one place to play and one club and one game = why would they pick shooting? Who is going to buy golf clubs if the town only has one place to hit a ball?

lots of ways that steel helps get shooters going in the sport.

Its very easy to teach skills in a steel match for new shooters, = that brings new shooters in to the sport safer. We can let a new or young shooter use a rim fire and start from a low ready. Its a good format to bring in ladies.

And a Dad can come and shoot a match with his 11 year old Son and get him fired up to be a life time member of our "Brotherhood"

The Only draw back I see is that I wont be able to make fun of ??? as much guess I will have to pick on ? Skeet shooters?

I like steel and USPSA does that make me BI? or just more likely to find a match on the weekend?

Jamie

Edited December 12, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[IYAOYAS]

GET A grip guys! Its Good for BOTH! Steel Challenge brings in USPSA members and USPSA brings shooters to steel.

I am starting my 16th year of running a club with my wifes help. If it was not for the IPSC club guys coming to help starting last year, I may have called it quits. As a result we have more shooters going to the IPSC matches in and guys that know how to help at the steel match.

lots of ways that steel helps get shooters going in the sport.

Its very easy to teach skills in a steel match for new shooters, = that brings new shooters in to the sport safer. We can let a new or young shooter use a rim fire and start from a low ready. Its a good format to bring in ladies.

And a Dad can come and shoot a match with his 11 year old Son and get him fired up to be a life time member of our "Brotherhood"

The Only draw back I see is that I wont be able to make fun of ??? as much guess I will have to pick on ? Skeet shooters?

I like steel and USPSA does that make me BI? or just more likely to find a match on the weekend?

Jamie

I for one think its great. I'm tired of Piru. Its 18 hours one way. I think a match located in the middle of the US would draw several new and old shooter alike. The real facts are its a done deal so lets make the best of it.

[Tom Freeman]

Great news.

I am looking forward to it, and not just because I have a complete virgin set of Steel Challenge Steel in my garage.

I am looking around, and even with my tinfoil hat on, I cant see any Black Helicopters from here.

Some heads up from the BOD to the membership would have been nice, seeing as its my membership $$$ they are using. Is that a grey helicopter comment?

[AlamoShooter]

OK I did think of a negative What If USPSA asks me to become a USPSA member club? We already have a very good USPSA club at our range. And after 25 years I don't think my club is broken.

My Grandson calls me GRANDFATHER yea thats the ticket Grandfather me in

[shootingchef]

I thinks it's good fit. SC is fun and a good introduction to practical shooting.

[Barrettone]

This is a good thing guys. It is a hell of a lot easier to get new shooters involved in our sport when they are shooting from a static position. Once they get the shooting part figured out, then we can introduce movement into the equation by showing them USPSA action shooting. It will be a great recruiting tool, and also appeal to a broader demographic as steel shooting spans several age groups and genders. An old gunslinger can whip up on them young-legged punks and feel real good about himself, as SC is more about the shooting and less about gaming or fleet of foot. It is IMO the purest form of shooting. Look for things to become more localized, as that is USPSA's strength, and they will take SC to a level that will far exceed all expectations. Adding classifications and allowing another sanctioned venue that is easier to set up would be a huge bonus as well. The BoD got it right. We will recover our money within 5-7 years...trust me. Then we will have a multi-dimensional "umbrella organization". Life is good.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Barrettone

[Gary Stevens]

I would like to clarify one point Jeff just touched on. No one on the BOD wants to change the SC in anyway, shape or form at the SC match level. i don't think you will see classifications, or USPSA type stuff at the top level. That match has historically been ran on a heads up basis, and I would expect that that will remain.

Now my interest is at the level below that match. Remember we are flying blind at this time for implementation at the local level. It is at this level that I think classifications and classifiers might be useful, and then again maybe not. My thinking is that a classification system for matches below the traditional SC match might work and provide a vehicle that our shooters are familiar with.

Repeating, don't look for any changes in the traditional SC match format for that particular match.

Gary

[g.willikers]

One of the best reasons for a club to add Steel Challenge is .22s! Rimfire Steel challenge is a great way to increase participation for any uspsa club. Regulars no longer will have a reason to discourage bringing their kids, wives, neighbors due to the cost or effort of supplying everyone with ammo. Old guys, (like me) who lost interest in uspsa and the like, due to failing eyes, sore joints and recoil that now hurts, can come back and do well again with a dot scoped .22.

It's about the only entertaining game for .22.

Build it and they will come. Me, too.

[Chriss Grube]

I'll disagree with the whole idea of a unilateral decision by the BOD. They are elected to represent the membership. Please explain how the membership is represented when they have no clue this even happened????? Sounds like a congressional pay raise vote to me! Maybe we can buy some more swamp land while we're at it!

[zhunter]

WOW

Traveling today, stopped into retrieve my e-mail and all of a sudden I am a member of a NEW shooting discipline!!!!

Great News!!!

Well done to our BOD and President for getting this done!!!

Time to re-spring a gun and work up a puff load for USPSA Steel!!!

[EricW]

Another brilliant business move by USPSA. First they totally neutralize the IPSC / USPSA debate by allowing both to coexist. Now, they begin the logical process of turning USPSA into the umbrella organization that it always should have been. The next logical steps are to take over Action Pistol and ICORE.

Outstanding job USPSA!!

(And I hope that the USPSA BOD continues to not allow the usual internet negativity to dissuade them from this course of action. I predict that even IDPA will eventually fall under the USPSA umbrella.)

Edited December 13, 2007 by EricW

[Gary Stevens]

Hey Jay, haven't you been shooting steel challenge loads all along?

Gary

[zhunter]

Hey Jay, haven't you been shooting steel challenge loads all along?

Gary

Shhhhh

No one besides you knew!!!!

[rgkeller]

It will be interesting to see what Sedro Wooley will offer local clubs to incent them to put on SC matches in return for the fees that HQ will surely want to collect.

A lot of clubs put on Steel Matches now.

[Religious Shooter]

Hey so when are we gonna buy IDPA?

[Bob Hostetter]

I am not sure if this deal is a good thing or not. Apparently it doesn't matter because it is already a done deal. My concern, if that's not to strong of a word, is that it was done without an open discussion between the leadership and the membership. I first heard about it was at the Area 2 match this year where it was openly discussed but not by the leadership.

Plus don't we have a lot of issues with the rules? Or are we going to create a whole new set of USPSA rules for the Steel Challenge? Freestyle might be a little tough (actually might be interesting see people charge the back plates on 'Outer Limits"), how are we going to handle major/minor, are we going to score it comstock (Hmmm, FTE for not shooting a plate?), but then I am sure all of this was worked out before a check was written, right?

Flex, the Pro's profit because of the ability to provide better, non conflicting scheduling, allow them to compete in as many high visibility matches as possible. The same reason Open and Limited are rarely scheduled at the same Nationals.

bgary, if you are going to quote from the "Mission Statement" you should also quote from the "Principles of USPSA Competition (Blue Book)". If you do you will notice that #2, #5, part of #6, #7, and #8 don't support the Steel Challenge type of competition.

And finally, if there is going to be a shit storm it won't be from me. I just want to know the details of this transaction which at first glance seems to be a little out of the "normal" day to day business of USPSA.

[mactiger]

I think it's a good thing. I think Bruce, Gary, and Rob have (nicely) explained the reasons for acquiring the SCSA, and did a good job of it. I probably won't be as nice as they were.

I don't think that anyone is owed an explanation about how their USPSA membership fee is spent. It's not stock acquisition, it's a membership fee, for which you get services from the organization like classification, Nationals, NROI classes, etc. They DO NOT have to account for how they spent your $40. It's like paying a fee to join Sam's Club, or Costco, or National Geographic, and I'd bet that anyone holding one of those cards doesn't question "where the money went".

We elect board members to work in our interests and in the best interest of the organization--same as Senators or Representatives. They may not always do what individuals want, but I firmly believe that they do act in the best interests of the organization, and with good intentions. Some things can't be publicly discussed, for obvious reasons, since the negotiations could be affected adversely. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. If you don't like how your board member is voting, take it up with him, or better yet, run for office. It will soon be evident that it's a thankless job, but hey, at least you're contributing something.

Lastly, I see some people bitching about this that to the best of my knowledge have never worked on a big match for USPSA, nor have they been on, or run for, the board. I could be wrong, but I know about Nationals, and I've never seen any of you there, except maybe as competitors. In my opinion, you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Take your pick.

I say give this venture a chance. USPSA will be dedicated to seeing that it succeeds, and it is a good opportunity for the organization to expand into other related shooting sports in a good way: we didn't take anything over, nor did we copy anyone's idea and change the name. We're not "taking our ball and going play another game" or taking someone else's ball, for that matter. Steel Challenge is a fun sport, and in no way conflicts with USPSA shooting. Rather, it compliments it, and we can benefit from the experience of the two Mikes as well as the success of the match. In addition, a bunch of potential new sponsors won't hurt. Having our hands on a sport that's pretty spectator friendly can't hurt,either.

I swear, if some USPSA members spent as much time working on growing this organization as they do bitching about it, we'd have 30,000 members. Nothing is free: it either costs you time or money, or both.

Troy

[satx40]

As a novice shooter I hope that I am not intruding on this topic. I am a novice shooter. I am also a Super Senior that has been shooting handguns for a total of 2 years. I belong to the Alpha Mike Club Shooters here in San Antonio and I am going to join the local steel club that AlamoShooter operates.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I enjoy shooting both! I'm still learning and each time I go to either match I learn something new. Many times it is just about myself. USPSA and Steel can coexist. Jamie has proven that.

If our dues go up then we know that USPSA spent more money than was available. Will this keep us from shooting? Will any of this change our love of the sport? Should we get upset that we now have an opportunity to try something different?

Sorry for the intrusion.

Art

[rgkeller]

"Lastly, I see some people bitching about this that to the best of my knowledge have never worked on a big match for USPSA, nor have they been on, or run for, the board. I could be wrong, but I know about Nationals, and I've never seen any of you there, except maybe as competitors. In my opinion, you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Take your pick."

Well, sometimes the peasants who work hard at local clubs - the clubs that do the actual work of recruiting new members and who take the financial risk when they buy new equipment and who faithfully send in their mission count and classifier fees - feel a need to voice their opinion on a matter which is certain to influence them.

Forgive me.

[bgary]

Plus don't we have a lot of issues with the rules? Or are we going to create a whole new set of USPSA rules for the Steel Challenge? Freestyle might be a little tough (actually might be interesting see people charge the back plates on 'Outer Limits"), how are we going to handle major/minor, are we going to score it comstock (Hmmm, FTE for not shooting a plate?), but then I am sure all of this was worked out before a check was written, right?

Totally worked out, by deciding that we're NOT GOING TO CHANGE STEEL CHALLENGE. We're not going to make it into "USPSA steel". It's going to run with the same rules, the same format, the same prize structure, and as much as we possibly can, the same flavor in 2008 as it had in 2007. No major/minor, no comstock, no different penalties or funny stuff. It will be "the Steel Challenge".

bgary, if you are going to quote from the "Mission Statement" you should also quote from the "Principles of USPSA Competition (Blue Book)". If you do you will notice that #2, #5, part of #6, #7, and #8 don't support the Steel Challenge type of competition.

Ah, see above. We're not going to run the Steel Challenge according to the blue-book rules. Steel Challenge has its own rules. Separate forms of competition, run under separate rules, just administered by the same non-profit organization. Think... hmm... GM owns Chevrolet and Saturn. Two different car companies, that build cars very differently, but are controlled by the same "parent company". That's what this is... two different types of shooting competition, which run very differently, but governed by the same org.

I just want to know the details of this transaction which at first glance seems to be a little out of the "normal" day to day business of USPSA.

The biggest thing about it is that it *is* out of the "normal" day to day business. This is a significant step in the history of USPSA, and hopefully in the history of practical shooting sports.

Bruce (hi, bob!)

[John Dunn]

If someone was going to buy it, I'm glad it was USPSA. Much better than just folding the match. Plus shooting steel is a hoot.

This is fantastic.

[mwx40x40]

After reading all these post I steel (pun intended) don't get it???

[ExtremeShot]

As other people have said, it's a done deal. Therefore, I think if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. For you complainers, you can just sit on the sidelines and watch us shoot steel. ....and we better not catch you trying to sneek into the game!

DM