How Popular Are L10 And Single Stack Really?

[markd]

Are Limited 10 and single stack divisions well populated at most club level matches? I mean if a club runs 25 shooters or less at the average match how many shooters will actually shoot L10 or single stack. I really do not entirely want to build a limited gun but I do not want to show up at regular matches to compete against only one or two or three shooters. I have been away from IPSC for a while and my heart is with single stack 1911s but I am very competitive and don't want to regularly shoot in a very small division. What is ya'lls experience in terms of numbers in L10 and single stack??? Thanks in advance.

[38superman]

The participation in those divisions will vary greatly from club to club.

If you know which club(s) you plan to shoot with, you should be able to look back at their score sheets and check participation.

Most clubs will post the data on their internet sites.

The club I belong to allows "second gun" matches.

Therefore, a lot of members shoot in more than one division as a reentry.

This pretty much guarantees at least a dozen competitors in every division, usually more.

If you really want to swim in a larger pond, you need to be thinking about limited.

If you are dead set against limited consider production.

It usually has a fair number of shooters and is not costly for equipment.

Personally, if I were in love with my 1911 I would shoot it and try my best to beat whoever shows up. No matter if it's one shooter or 200.

If you're that competitive you will get a real kick when you and your 1911 start beating guys with fat guns.

I never would have believed it, but Hopalong beat me by a full second on the last classifier I shot.

He was using a wheel gun and beat me although I didn't have to reload and he did.

That *&^(^!

Tls

Edited August 24, 2006 by tlshores

[RickB]

Limited 10 has always been popular in my Section (Seattle area), usually outdrawing Production, and often outdrawing Open. We have had an interesting shift lately, where shooters known for shooting a specific division have suddenly changed, a handful of "Limited shooters" going Open, and a handful of "L10 shooters" going Limited, so the numbers have shifted a bit. Single Stack is being shot rarely, and single stack pistols are very popular in the northwest; Limited 10 in this area is a single stack division.

[cruiten]

At my club in Norco in Southern California I have noticed that many people with singlestacks actually compete in Limited-10 with extended magazines. Talking with some of them they would like to shoot in Single Stack Division but there just aren't enough competitors so they shoot the same gun in Limited-10.

Here are some numbers from the last couple of weeks:

Date----Total----Open----Ltd--L-10---Prod

09/02------69--------29-----23-----11-------6

08/26------52--------13-----20-----12-------7

08/19------42--------17-----18-------2-------5

08/12------67--------19-----23-----12------12

08/05------60--------20-----22-----10-------8

As you can see there was no participation in Single Stack at our club for the last 5 weeks.

[Steve Moneypenny]

If you already have a gun go ahead and shoot it. you don't really need more than a couple 10 round mags to shoot limited 10 with. as most arrays cand be handled with 8 rounds. just plan your reloads and arrays as best you can. to rally compete with a lot of people you will need to look on a club by club basis I shoot at clubs where the largest division is sometimes open... yes open. I shoot at others where it is production being tied with limited for largest and 2 open shooters. There is no generalization that I can make after shooting many sports.

Don't over look some of the guns you can buy for half the cost of some of the full house limited guns.

Para, Tnafoglio ... CZ maybe? HK has a fairly competitive limited gun and they will take STI mags if you cut the front of the mag a little.

[Loves2Shoot]

Steve, don't forget the new Sig in .40. It is sweet and ready to go.

[Wideload]

At the club I shoot, we have been averaging ~ 51 shooters at the monthly matches and 22% shoot L-10 (~10-12 per match) and 5% SS (~2-3 per match). Probably one of the biggest detraction from SS is the fact that you can't yet get classified in that division by itself. As a result new shooters with 1911's gravitate to L10 to get a working classification.

I've also heard some good single stack shooters say that the SS Division is "too hard" -- with no margins for error with the 8 and 9 round arrays...but I though that was part of the point of SS Division.

(If they want hard, they should try Limited-6 even the 8 round .45acps seem like a lot after you get used to shooting 6 reloading 6...)

[pskys2]

++1!! Wideload.

[LPatterson]

The last local match had 35 shooters broken down as follows 2 Open, 7 Limited, 9 L10, 9 SS, 5 Production & 3 Revo. A couple of Open shooters were missing because they shot a match in Idaho the day before. Also bow season started last week along with upland bird. The numbers will be even lower next month as Antelope & Big Game will have started.

[JFD]

We haven't had more than 1 SS shooter locally since the division started, and I think he gave up on it. Few seem to want to negotiate possible 9 round arrays with an 8+1 gun. Major match participation in this division has been pretty bad, but next year should give a better idea about the future of this division. The SS Nats was already a well established match before USPSA got involved, so those numbers mean nothing.

L-10 is more popular than Production here, but occasionally they are even. It's rare to see anything but a Glock or SS 1911 in L-10 locally. That's where a lot of our IDPA crossover shooters end up.

I figured teaming L-10 with Limited at the Nats, especially when tons of Limited shooters would shoot L-10 if it was teamed with Open (which it should be), was a very bad idea, but looking at the squad lists it appears the division will do well enough. Revolver even looks like it's gaining numbers.

L-10 is popular, and always will be IMHO because it's the cheapest way to go racing and 11 rounds is plenty for even newbies when the shooting starts. Reloading between every array/position" keeps you from getting bored

[mcb]

We always have a bunch of Single Stack shooter at our local matches. We usually have 40-60 guns sign up at each match and SS have nearly 10 SS shooters at most matches. L-10 does about the same. Limited and production are usually are most populate. Open is only slightly ahead of the 2-3 real shooters (revolver ) that show up. At least at our club L-10 and SS do pretty good.

mcb

[CSEMARTIN]

Are Limited 10 and single stack divisions well populated at most club level matches? I mean if a club runs 25 shooters or less at the average match how many shooters will actually shoot L10 or single stack. I really do not entirely want to build a limited gun but I do not want to show up at regular matches to compete against only one or two or three shooters. I have been away from IPSC for a while and my heart is with single stack 1911s but I am very competitive and don't want to regularly shoot in a very small division. What is ya'lls experience in terms of numbers in L10 and single stack??? Thanks in advance.

I've had the same dilemma. I love the single stack, but I didn't want to compete against one or two other shooters. Instead, I decided to buy 10 round magazines for my single stack and use my IDPA gear to shoot L-10. I think I might be at a disadvantage so I've decided to stick with using my single stack for the single stack division.

Edited September 12, 2006 by CSEMARTIN

[XD Niner]

I like shooting both Production and L-10 and split my matches between them. I can use two totally different guns (XD-9 Tactical and .45 Springer Black Stainless 1911 single stack respectively) yet the COF analysis is nearly identical. About the only difference is that trading time for points in Production is almost always a bad idea. It is easier to compromise in L-10 when shooting Major. I also like the fact that I can shoot .45 without worrying about a capacity handicap to those with .40s. I'm one of those people who really don't like the felt recoil of a .40.

Last month the St. Augustine guys held a classifier match with five classifiers. Just for grins and giggles I shot Limited with my 1911 and ten round mags. I had a great time as usual but needed an extra reload on two or three of the stages compared to the guys with a bazillion bullets in their mags. Of the 17 Limited shooters, I finished dead center in the middle of the pack.

I really like L-10 and one of these matches I'm going to shoot SS. I hope both stay around.

Edited September 13, 2006 by XD Niner

[steel1212]

As a result new shooters with 1911's gravitate to L10 to get a working classification.

+11111

Thats my main thing. I can't get classified in SS so why should I shoot it? I think they would have a lot more people shooing SS if they just went ahead and made it a division to see how many people would really shoot in it! I love my 1911s and have been shooting limited 10 in 9mm....talking about sucking! I did come in middle of the pack at my last match until the MD realized he scored me major....then I dropped to 4th which was last lol. I'm getting a .45 done so I can shoot it in limited 10 but you still compete against basically limited guns loading to 10+1. I'm also getting my XD .40 setup to shoot production for more competition to see how I really fit in.

[nontactical]

I think the big question remains whether both l10 and ss will survive. L10 was dominated by single stacks, and now if they all move to ss....

[Rob Boudrie]

Current Single Stack scores reported:

Classifiers: 3076 shot at 246 clubs in 896 matches.

[ipscbob]

I think the big question remains whether both l10 and ss will survive. L10 was dominated by single stacks, and now if they all move to ss....

It is highly unlikely that ALL of the L10 shooters will move to SS since alot of us don't see the purpose for the new division. In other words, we like L10 and see no reason to move unless forced by the BOD. We like L10 the way it is!

[RPMartin]

Why barrow trouble? Wait and see if Single Stack will be voted in as a new Class. I believe the BOD decides this January.

SS is a good way to bring back some of the "old guys" who won't/can't spend money on a limited/open gun.

They have their old slab side in the safe, and now they can come out and play again.

Welcome them back, and don't worry about SS until it happens. I have shot this year as a C SS, and am loving it. I won't be selling my PO anytime soon, but going back to 8 rds has been fun.

RPM

[Jim Norman]

At our local clubs we see a lot of Production, Limited, Limited-10, and Open, we see a lot of people shooting a Single stack in L-10, but only a very few shooting in SS.

Yes we do recognize the division. We haven't had enough people show up to pay a single shooter yet.

My feeling is that we should ADD Single Stack to the mix, but in doing so, we should leave L-10 alone. There are more than a few places where you can own a widebody, but only 10 round mags. The people that live there may shoot Limited or L-10 at home, but travel to places where they have a stash of standard capacity mags and shoot the same gun fully loaded. Why would anyone want to take that away?

Jim

[nipplehead]

In my area basically Chicago , Northern Indiana , and Lower Western - Central Michigan, L-10 has generally a very good turnout, never less than 10 and sometimes approaching 20 shooters per match. In that group , a large percentage (70-80 %) are using 1911s with 10 round mags. In the Spring those numbers are higher because people a practicing for the Single Stack Nats.

The most I have seen actually shooting Single Stack at a match is 5, but more normally it is more like 3 or less.

Most of the IDPA crossover comes from Production we get big numbers in that Divison.

I hope one Divisions survival does not hing on the other. I respect the Guys that want to shoot with 8 rounds and I am certain if a classifaction could be gained more would particpate but I doubt the numbers will be earth shattering.

[JFD]

Based on the numbers at major matchs so far, there's no danger of SS causing L-10 to get killed off. Of course SS looks stronger in certain parts of the country, but doesn't seem to be the majority.

Personally I always loved the rules freedom in L-10 and shot a SS Kimber with a race rig because it was fun. Everything legal in SS is already legal in L-10, or Limited, or Open for that matter, so it's not like Jow Blow couldn't dust off his SS .45 anytime he wanted to.

Whatever the reason for SS, it's got the deck stacked against it due to the classifer decision and limiting it to 1911 only. Currently classified members wouldn't really care, but most new shooters are highly concerned with getting classified ASAP. Of course things like that are liable to happen when you create a division for a single gun model.

While I'd love to see Production, L-10, Revolver, and SS in a "Factory Gun Nationals", I don't think the SS supporters would like to see that happen at all until after the final BOD vote.

[Flexmoney]

Current Single Stack scores reported:

Classifiers: 3076 shot at 246 clubs in 896 matches.

Wow...not very strong numbers. Even though I don't see it as being very popular, I figured there would be better numbers than that being this deep into the year.

246 clubs sounds like a lot. But, lets face it...if one guys shows up and says that he read in Front Sight that USPSA was running Single-Stack then the match director pretty much is painted into the corner.

896 matches, divide that by the 246 clubs and you come up with about 3.5 monthly matches per club.

3076 classifers divided by 896 matches...equals about 3.4 shooters per match. That is a bit higher than I expected. I haven't seen those kind of SS shooters at local matches in my area.

[Gonzogun]

I shoot L10 and like it

Here's the problem, or maybe it's just my problem.

Local monthly matches bring out about 2-4 competitors.

I like to have a little competition (no offense to those few I compete against)

Competition drives me to get better

I've been recently thinking about switching to Limited with my "skinny" gun

tlshores was right, it would be pretty cool to beat those guys with the "fat" guns

my .02

[Kory]

Are Limited 10 and single stack divisions well populated at most club level matches? I mean if a club runs 25 shooters or less at the average match how many shooters will actually shoot L10 or single stack. I really do not entirely want to build a limited gun but I do not want to show up at regular matches to compete against only one or two or three shooters. I have been away from IPSC for a while and my heart is with single stack 1911s but I am very competitive and don't want to regularly shoot in a very small division. What is ya'lls experience in terms of numbers in L10 and single stack??? Thanks in advance.

Don't they post the overall results as well as within division results?

I look at overall results and don't care too much about divisions and classes. Segmenting the pond into a bunch of little puddles doesn't make you a bigger fish.

Shoot the gun you like in whatever division you feel comfortable. It doesn't matter that you dominate the other two L-10 shooters, you are gunning for high overall anyway.

[kamakiri]

Limited-10 is pretty much always the biggest division at our club matches here in VT... often close to 50% of the total attendance. I think it appeals to guys for lots of reasons... on the one hand, the rules are loose enough that you can shoot pretty much anything you show up with, but on the other hand you don't feel like you have to have a full race gun to be competitive. Single stack, on the other hand, hasn't drawn flies so far. (1 guy has shot it once or twice.) I think the main problem is that it's so restrictive, at least as far as drawing new shooters as opposed to old 1911 fans. Personally I'm baffled by some of the rules... no equipment rail? What advantage is that? And why not allow non-1911 guns so long as they have the same equipment/mag restrictions? Still looking at the decision new shooters make... I think most are just taking their single stack to L-10 so they don't have to worry about equipment restrictions, and because they want those extra two rounds. Also, there's really no significant disadvantage to shooting a skinny gun versus a wide body in L-10 (imho), so why not go where the competition is interesting? SS has had pretty light attendance at the major matches in the northeast, too, from what I've seen. But of course it's still new; Production didn't get much attention at first, and now I think it's the most vigorous and interesting division going, definitely pushing the evolution of the sport.