38superman

For your purposes the Bushnell should serve you well. Good luck on your hunt.

This is an easy one. For starters, the more expensive scopes typically have a higher quality glass. This means the view of the target is brighter and sharper. If you are a hunter and taking game at relatively short range, this doesn't mean as much. If you are trying for bug hole groups or shooting at long or extreme distances, it matters a lot. Try to focus a cheap scope on a target beyond 500 yds and you'll see what I'm talking about. Beyond just optical quality, internals are better and the premium scopes tend to track more accurately. In short, what you are paying for is a scope that is tougher, image that is brighter & sharper, and adjustments that are more accurate and repeatable. Also, this type of scope often has some sort of holdover reticle (that may or may not be illuminated) This goes beyond a duplex crosshair but adds value and cost. Its also worth noting that high end scopes tend to have larger diameter tubes, and generally weigh more. FWIW, My PRS rifles are all custom builds. They are premium barrels with chambers cut and fitted to a high end action. The barrelled actions are cerakoted and bedded into in quality chassis. Triggers are among the best money can buy. The point being, these are some expensive shooting irons. The glass on each of them cost more than the rifle,... if that tells you anything. Optics matter.

The whole moonclip thing is new to me so I guess I didn't realize variances in the brass would make so much difference. Buying components is almost impossible right now so I'll have to stick with what I have, which is Starline and about 150 rounds of Winchester. The first ammo I clipped was some factory Sig. When I'm breaking in a new gun I often chrono some factory rounds just to have a baseline for comparison with my handloads. The Sig stuff is way loose.

I haven't owned any revolvers in quite a while and decided I'd like to start adding a few to my collection. I bought a S&W610 last year and it has been a safe queen since it was purchased. It came with three moon clips but I thought I'd wait to shoot it until I had some tools to load and unload the clips. I finally got around to buying this stuff but when I loaded up the clips I was quite surprised. Back in the deep dark past I used speed loaders but found them impractical. Speedloaders didn't hold the rounds very securely and they danced around making alignment with chambers almost impossible. My expectation was that moons would hold the rounds much more securely. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least with the ammo I tried first. These are TK Custom moon clips with Sig factory rounds. They wobble around like a drunken sailor on a three day liberty. Can this be improved or is this just to be expected?

I shot my first PRS match with a 20" AR15 shooting the 69 SMK. I did pretty well until I had to engage targets beyond 600 yds, then things got a little dicey. I never used a tripod, but a bipod is a necessity. A good bag is also helpful. You should zero at 100 yds. Then you will need some way to compensate for drop at different ranges. A ballistic calculator and a tactical scope that you can dial (or reticle with a holdover grid) will get you in the game. I use a Kestrel for ballistics but if you don't have access to a calculator, I think there are some decent apps that can be downloaded to a smart phone. You need to chrono the ammo you will compete with. Once you have your bullet speed, your load and gun data should be fed into the ballistic program. The drop and windage tables produced by a program are theoretical but should be pretty close. However, before the match, you should go to the range and confirm the drop data. You will want to fine tune the data with actual results to get solid long range dope. If you are not accustomed to long range shooting, the first thing you discover is that the wind is not your friend. Another difficulty of the .223 is that even when you manage to get downrange hits, you may not always get the score. At great distance, small light bullets don't make much of a splash or induce a lot of movement on heavy steel targets. Even with a spotting scope, the R.O. may not always be able to see the impact. He can't call what he can't see. Keep your expectations real, have some fun, and don't worry about the score. No matter how talented you are as a marksman, you won't challenge the alpha dogs in your first match. There is a learning curve for this type of competition and there are no shortcuts. Just get out there, enjoy the moment, and learn as much as you can.

^^^^^^^ What he said. Armageddon.

You're welcome Sir. I don't want to give you the impression that I'm trying to steer you away from Hornady brass. Just wanted to share my opinion for whatever value it may hold for you. I still keep a supply of it in around in .223 and .308 for anytime I want to load mass quantities of ammo for plinking or practice. I might even load some up for a local match if its a lost brass match and I don't want to leave $1.50 brass lying on the ground. If its for serious competition. I use the premium and don't worry about the cost, just the score. Good luck and good shooting.

If you go on any online sales site you can see that new or used, it is generally cheaper than most other brass. As others have said, .25-.35 each seems to be the market price for used. Your original post seemed to be concerned only with the price and whether your friend was offering a good deal. You didn't say how much brass your buddy was trying to sell or if you have used it before and like it. I am not a fan because I have found it to be to inconsistent. Neck thickness variances are generally within the norms I have seen from other manufacturers. However, If you sort cases by weight, you see that this brass has some pretty profound swings between lightest and heaviest within a given batch. I have also noticed that the primer pockets seem to open up quickly if you run loads toward the hot side (I said hot, not excessive). I find that this brass requires more prep work and I cull so much of it that it ends up being no cheaper than premium brass. On the bench, my loads always seem to be prone to flyers when using it so I simply avoid it. All that said, in any group of shooters you can find plenty of them that sing the praises of Hornady ammo and brass and get good results with it. I can't speak to the preferences of others. I can only tell you what I have experienced. IF you have used it and are okay with it, and can get it at a good price, why not? Tls

No you are not doing a disservice. A high end barrel will perform better than a cheap barrel no matter what its plugged in to. That said you can't assume that a JP or any one else's barrel will drop into just any upper. Unlike AR-15s which are mil-spec and consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer, there are no hard and fast standards for AR-10s. The most prevalent are Armalite SR25 & DPMS but there's a lot of proprietary stuff out there too. A JP barrel might work fine on an Aero precision receiver and it might not without some gunsmithing. I have seen a local builder put an Odin Works 6mm Creedmoor barrel on an Aero receiver but don't know how much trouble (if any) it was to make it work.

I load for precision rifle and other competitions on a RCBS RockChucker that's 48 years old. I couldn't begin to guess how many pistol and rifle rounds I've loaded on it in a lifetime of shooting sports. I load pistol ammo on a Dillon these days but my rifle ammo is all loaded on the green beast. It is my go to for precision loading because it is totally rigid and any rounds I load on it will be consistent. Age is virtually meaningless on the RCBS. They are damn near indestructible. Mine still produces ammo that's measurably superior to the best premium factory loads I've ever tested. If you use a high quality premium die set, that old war horse will still deliver "gnats ass" good results.

I will assume you are referring to the PRS when you say long range matches so we'll go from there. Most decent marksmen can ring steel from a benchrest on a calm day. The closest you will get to a benchrest is a bipod and calm days are rare. Therefore this game favors high B.C. bullets and all the velocity you can get. AR's barrels are relatively short but workable. I'd stay away from the 223 and 308. They lack the ballistics to be effective at the kind of ranges you will see in these matches IMHO. That said you can shoot the gas gun series in the tactical division heavy or light and compete against shooters using these calibers. The 6.5 Creedmoor or the Valkyrie would be better choices ballistically but they force you into the open division. Either way, figure out which gun you want to go with, buy or borrow a Kestrel and get to a range that lets you shoot at 1000 yds or beyond. Chronograph your ammo and feed the data into the ballistic calculator. It will tell you your come-ups and windage corrections at various distances, but you always need to check it with real world testing. Once you figure out your dope with the ammo you will be using, you're set. Don't fret about the rules, they are much the same as any shooing sport. Accidental disharge, 180 violations, etc. Every stage is different but generally, gun is unloaded and magazine out until range officer gives command to make ready. Bolt open when transitioning or with AR, safety on. It's all common sense stuff. Just read the stage description and follow the RO instructions and you will be fine. That's really about it. Have fun.

You can buy a very high quality rifle from Masterpiece Arms for about 2K. Either 6.5 or 6mm Creedmoor will serve you well. That rifle would also allow you to shoot in production division if you wish. The problem will be that only leaves you 1k for an optic. That's going to be tough but buy the best you can afford and upgrade later. Otherwise you will go down the path so many others have travelled. That is you buy a rifle that you think you like and shoot it for a couple of seasons then buy the rifle you should have bought in the first place.

I can't say I have experience with the 77 gr Scenars, but I've had excellent results with the 69 gr Scenar-L. The 136 Scenar-L has been my go-to bullet in my 6.5 Creedmoor for years. If you can get 600 of the 77s at a good price, it's hard to see how you could go wrong.

Short answer: Yes You can compete in the bolt gun matches with a gasser if you wish. or,... You can sign up for a Gas gun only match and pick the division that's appropriate to your equipment.

Sounds like a good plan. You'll figure it all out soon enough. Just show up, sling lead and learn as much as you can every time. Don't worry about the score, just treat it as training.

If I may add a bit of advice here, you state that that your interest is due to starting in PRS. One of the things that will dictate your load is which division you plan to shoot in. You can shoot a gas gun in the Bolt Gun series, but you will never be competitive in the PRS open division with a .223. I shot my first two matches back in 2013 with a 20" barrel .223 and did okay. However, in today's environment, you are shooting against elite shooters with hot rod custom built 6mm and 6.5mm rifles and bullets with ballistic coefficients well up into the .600s. Their loads will stay supersonic well past 1300 yards and buck the wind in ways the .223 can't begin to match. Your best bet is to shoot in the Gas Gun Series in the Tactical Light division. This is a .223 only division and the playing field will be a little more level for you. If your background is USPSA you will find the Gas gun series is set up closer to what you are accustomed to. Think of it as 2-gun. Lots of matches have pistol content and scoring is more speed related where most PRS bolt gun stages are par time scoring. All that said, you will still be engaging targets at pretty extreme ranges for the .223. By rule, in Tac light, the heaviest bullet you can use will be 77gr at no more than 3000 fps. and you will need every bit of B.C. and velocity you can get. I highly recommend you re-barrel or get an upper with a 22" barrel at minimum. My 22" JP barrel will push 73 gr Bergers to 2900 with CFE-223 in the Wylde chamber with acceptable pressure. This is the bullet I use because I have a lot of them. When they are used up, I will move to the 77s.

www.jprifles.com/document_pdfs/JP%20Loading%20Document_693.pdf

Go to the prs webiste, www.precisionrifleseries.com. Look for past or pending matches that are held in Texas. Once you have a location you will find that the range that's hosting a major match probably also has local club matches from time to time. Sign up and show up. That's all there is to it. Get your rifle tuned up and ready, Try to find someplace you can shoot out as far as possible and check your dope. You need to have a good ballistic calculator. You need to test your loads at long range to tell you if your calculator is giving you good information on where your rounds are impacting before the match. You basically only need your rifle, ammo, bipod, sling, and maybe some bags. A ruck sack to carry it all and you're off to a good start.

I am very happy with my 22" JP barrel. Even with heavy bullets, the 223 doesn't make much of a splash on targets beyond 500-600 yds. It makes it hard for the RO to see hits. You'll need all the velocity you can get. I shot open division with a 26" barrel for a several seasons so I can't say I find the .223 cumbersome or heavy. Tony

Seekins

Just for casual shooting, I think either one would do. However, IMHO, the HCR looks like a better fit if you ever want to compete. Before you buy either rifle, try the trigger. In long range shooting, nothing is more important that a good, clean, light trigger. Moving the mag release behind the mag is a big plus. Also the magazine is protected more by the chassis frame on this particular model. This allows you to push the rifle into a barricade to stabilize it without disturbing the magazine. PRS competition can be kind of rough and tumble. You will be supporting the rifle from car doors, boulders, trees, roofs, concrete pipe, etc., etc. Hammering your mag against a barricade or prop will not have a desirable outcome. As for the AICS pattern magazines, they are fine. They are reliable but expensive and at times can be hard to find. I have four of them made by "Accurate Mag". They are aluminum, and coated with Teflon or something like it. They were around $75 each. Magpul makes an AISC compatible mag which is made of polymer and relatively cheap if you can find them. The polymer is slick and makes the action feel smoother when you cycle the bolt. It also doesn't scar the brass as the aluminum lips tend to do during feeding when the mag is fully loaded. I only mention it because there are rifles out there that will let you use either an AISC or a standard AR 10 308 mag. Standard AR-10 mags are plentiful and cheap. Also, if your rifle can use AR pattern mags, you can get the 20 round version and double your capacity. Not a big deal really, but there may be times when you have to shoot a course of fire that has more than 10 shots. If so, a high cap mag will save you a few seconds on a mag change. Whichever you choose, good luck with it and I hope to see you on the firing line.

This would not be my first choice. The Luth-AR stock is a plus. Good adjustments and light weight. I like the grip. However, I can't say the chassis configuration looks promising for long range precision matches. The concern I would have is the forearm and mag release. You will be shooting through windows and off barricades quite often. Pushing up against the barricade looks like it might activate the mag release. Also the forearm is short and skinny giving way to an AR-15 type hand guard. Looks cool but I'm afraid it would not stabilize the gun well off of the props. The magazine itself looks to be and AISC type mag. There are other guns out there that will work with either an AISC or AR-10 mag. There is no muzzle brake. A 308 is not a beast when it comes to recoil but its no kitten. Put 200 rounds through it in a weekend and your shoulder will start to feel it. The barrel is threaded so you can add a brake, but it will be an extra expense. Bottom line is that this gun might serve you well for a short time but you will quickly tire of it and want something more. Keep looking. There are other choices available.

I run a JP 22" barrel (+ comp) in Tactical division of PRS. Gas gun division is a different animal. Ranges are limited by rule. In the tac division you shoot the same course of fire as the open shooters and their bolt guns. That means going beyond what most would consider effective range for a .223. You need all the barrel you can get.

I have both devices. The Kestrel is indispensable. The rangefinder is a fine piece of equipment but has not been as useful because so far all PRS matches I have attended have targets at known distances.

It's my main discipline these days. Still much to learn