Why's Everybody Always Picking On Me?

[John Heiter]

I started shooting IPSC in 2001 and I did it for a number of reasons. I liked the people at my local club, I enjoyed the competitive nature of the sport, and I've always been into shooting guns, so it made for a great combination.

Around my area, Limited .40 is still the dominant division/caliber at local matches. Most of the local matches are 3-5 stages and require anywhere from 75-150 rounds. Most of of the targets you will see are either Pepper Poppers, US Poppers, Plates, or IPSC Metric targets. Every so often someone will get brave enough to throw in some classic targets but they take a lot of grief for doing it.

My fellow competitors and I show up for matches in shorts and t-shirts (Jackson MS gets 11.7 months of summer) with our velcro inner/outer belts, lots of mag holders, cool looking holsters, and whatever gun we feel like shooting that day. We design and shoot courses of fire that we think will challenge shooter's ability, memory, agility, etc. while still being fun and entertaining. It's not always easy to accomplish the entertaining part because after roughly five years, three matches a month, four stages per match, say some 700+ matches...a lot of the stages start to look alike. That's my IPSC and it's what I know and like but for some reason it seems to be under attack these days.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard "Real men shoot..." be it .45's or revolvers or Glocks or 30-06 bolt actions or whatever it is they happen to favor. I love being reminded that my gear is somehow impractical because it actually allows me to maximize my performance. They tell me I shoot "bubble gum" IPSC because I don't mind if someone hangs a target upside down or makes one spin around. They call me a liberal because, even though I'm an avid hunter, I happen to agree that no camo is a good idea. They think I'm a wuss because I have no interest in talking about the viability of two the body one to the head in front of the new lady shooter who has come to the range for the first time. They preach about how they want to get back to the "martial origins" of our sport but they seem to forget that those origins were about competition.

I could go on for days but it won't do me any good. Valiant efforts by smarter folks than I to appease every crowd through new divisions and rules continue to do no good either. I hate to see more division in the shooting community but I'm starting to think that maybe these folks who are so unhappy with today's IPSC need to take a page from Bill's book. It sure will make my life easier and who knows, maybe ten years from now it'll be their mug on the cover of Front Sight.

John

[Sean Gaines]

i would guess that the same people who are giving you a hard time, probably can't shoot a lick. keep doing what you are doing, this is not war its a game. You do what you do in order to win. Forget about what other people say, or dont, tell them off. I dont care, just dont make this sport work, keep it fun and keep it something that you can take pride in and enjoy. thats what it was meant to be. If they want realization, tell them to join the army and go fight in Iraq.

[1911user]

I guess you also read the newest Front Sight tonight. I kind of wish I hadn't.

Edited February 28, 2006 by 1911user

[Ben Stoeger]

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard "Real men shoot..."

Real men shoot production!

I will mail you a nickel if you want.

[short_round]

They're just jealous.

[caspian38]

my football coach said something to me that always stuck ... when he was in collage he was heckling an opponent at a game and all the guy did was point at the score board and smile ... my coach said "ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU CAN POINT AT THE SCOREBOARD AND SMILE "

who cares what they say if your kicking the Carp out of them.(as in winning )

winners don't care what losers say.(and if they do they don't show it ...they just use it to win more. )

C38

if your not beating them ... you better practice more so you can just smile and point at the scoreboard.

[Clay1]

I believe that John's post is a response to the latest front sight article. Personally I loved the article and laughed out loud on more than one occation.

I think that his point was to make stages about the shooting and not about the props. Love the tailiban IPSC comment sent me laughing for a good 5 minutes.

I'm not very politically correct. I shoot guns, better yet I shoot a weapon. In a recent NRA class to become a pistol instructor they told us that we can no longer us the "W" word. The course that I learned how to teach is called basic pistol. I told them a pistol was a handgun where the cartridge goes into the barrel and calling a revolver a pistol is wrong. I was told to forget about the actual facts and just keep it simple even if it is technically wrong.

I think the "W" word is appropriate for the type of handguns that we shoot. I call the type of shooting that I do "combat" style shooting - what the hell is practical shooting another politically correct standard. I shoot head shoots. Two to the body and one to the head might sound crude to some, but that's what we do. I hate turtle targets.

If you live in one of the countries where they are lucky to shoot any handgun games well you do what you have to do to play, but I live in America and I really don't like the political police.

I really could identify with BIPSC. Now after saying all of that John and hearing how involved you are in the club and the shooting that article wasn't addressed toward you in any negative way as I read it. It was there as a reminder of the principals of the game we play.

[ihatepickles]

Well, I've always thought about shooting sports in a very practical way. If I knew where a gun battle was guaranteed to break every weekend, do you think I would show up for this event as a leisure activity?

I'm sure the guys who did go looking for the gun fight are very practical shooters with good medical plans, but I feel I'm being smarter by avoiding the gun fight. Essentially, how far are the critics willing to take their diatribe?

Consider the IDPA shoots, where strange rules are enforced about holster light gaps and 10 rounds in the magazine of a pistol that will hold 17 rounds. Are these ideas any more or less practical in nature? (Seriously, this isn't a IPSC vs. IDPA comment, I'm just using it as an example of one set of rules vs. another - I shoot IDPA too.)

It'll always be a game unless you're fighting for your life, and who's going to engage in combat on the weekends just for something to do? I hope we all can enjoy our sport safely and none of us will ever know the fear of returning fire.

[dajarrel]

John,

When I come to MS for the Classic in a couple of months, I hope to see a continuance of the 700+ stages your club has designed. I always enjoy your matches.

As for what others write, I'd like to use a saying that most urban dwellers won't understand but those of us in the country will understand completely.

"Don't pay any attention to the sh....smelly stuff 'til you step in it."

In other words, someone is always running thier mouths just to hear themselves talk.

Just my take on it.

dj

[MikeFoley]

Real men shoot whatever the F they want.

[shred]

Yeah. Shooting is fun.

We need nothing beyond that.

[midvalleyshooter]

Real men shoot whatever the F they want.

And that ladies and gentlemen is the whole point

YMMV

MVS

[j2fast]

Yeah. Shooting is fun.

We need nothing beyond that.

Exactly!

[Scooter]

You know what they say about men that shoot big guns, they have to stand closer to the urinal.

[JFD]

I'd be happier if I had just thrown Front Sight in the trash as soon as it arrived. Next issue will likely feature an attack on L-10.

[Kimberkid]

Good Post, I agree about 99%.

I think this is just another case of people being mistaken into thinking that what we do matters. If all the shooting sports stopped tommorow, the world would not be greatly affected. Yes, I love shooting. Yes, I think it prepares me in case I ever have to use a gun "socially". Yes, the shooting sports have pushed the technology envelope both in training and in equipment. No, I dont think that much would change if sport shooting ceased to exist. (dont flame me with crime stats, I'm not talking about guns, I'm talking about sport shooting)

Wanna get back to the martial roots? Take the gun that you actually carry, go to the range at midnight, have someone crack you in the head so you are seeing stars, and then shoot a target. Dont bother with a timer or keeping score.

Did this start as martial training? maybe, dependant on who you ask. Either way it isnt now. Enjoy it for what it is. I dont know anyone who started shooting to become the baddest gun ninja that ever was.

Like the (in)Famous KY State Tactial 3 gun champ says, "shoot whatever the F you want"

[pskys2]

Real Men take care of their families and loved ones. Everything else is secondary.

Shooting is fun. Competition is fun, as long as you don't make it work. And it's good for all the fine ladies, men, youngsters and seniors to have fun.

After reading the latest Front Sight, I wondered if we were going to go through some "we should be different" times. Happened in the past, probably will happen again. It's not all bad, either way. A little soul searching can be good, just don't get neurotic over it.

My hats off to all of those who work matches, men, women, youngsters and seniors. When someone starts to question courses locally, I tell them it's a good idea, set it up. Some do, some leave. I burnt out a while back and am trying to gradually get back in, but I still appreciate the hard work put in by others.

Lifes too short, hug your better half, give the kids an 'atta boy, pet the dog and stroke the cat. Take a deep breath, ain't life sweet.

[Derek45]

Real men shoot whatever the F they want.

Yep !

[Ron Ankeny]

I too read Avery's article about bubble gum IPSC. If you read the article closely you probably noticed Avery was also speaking on behalf of Ara Maljian and countless others who despise bubble gum IPSC. I doubt that their dislike for bubble gum has much to do with their inability to make the shot.

I have had the opportunity to set up stages side by side with Ara Maljian, and I have discussed stage design very briefly with Ron Avery a couple of times. While I don't agree with Ara and Ron on every little item, I am firmly in their camp with the belief that a good course of fire is all about testing a variety of shooting skills, and there is no place for gimmicks and other such nonsense designed to "slow them down" or "trip them up". I also believe there is no place in IPSC for gimmicks that introduce an element of luck such as inconsistent props that don't behave the same for each competitor. I also believe a good course of fire is one that flows smoothly from the start to the finish, is not punitive to the less experienced shooters, but is still challenging to M and GM shooters. As for those "memory stages" that many folks find so "novel", just gag me with a spoon.

I think there might be some confusion about the idea that IPSC stages should be reality based. The trend today is towards long field courses shot totally freestyle. I can not think of any possible scenario that would require me to wade through a sea of 15 bad guys. I think what Avery is getting at, (and I know this is where Ara is coming from) is if the course of fire is a shoot out at the OK corral, the stage should look like the OK Corral with pole fences, a watering trough, etc. The scenario should at least look like something that might happen and the skills tested should at least look like something that might be employed to solve the problem. If the course of fire is the LA shoot out, it should look like a bank, a parking lot, have some cop cars to shoot from behind, etc. The skills tested should at least resemble something that might happen.

Instead we find ourselves shooting through a steel ring at a Texas Star where we can't even choose the engagement order, and in the initial stages we have to wait on the darn prop instead of getting on with the shooting. Heaven help the shooter that has to launch his rounds through Barney's sphincter when the afternoon breeze comes up, or the junior shooter blasting away with dad's single stack while going to slide lock; more than once. What a great idea, let's try to slow the GM's down and in so doing let's frustrate a 14 year old junior to the point of tears. Get a clue, gimmicks and tricks only make the disparity between the inexperienced shooters and the experienced shooters even greater.

As we all know, good course design isn't easy. There is nothing wrong with designing courses of fire that don't employ gimmicks, speed traps, or other bubble gum. I think the guys deserve a chance.

[John Dunn]

The pendulum swings.

Some want to threat scan and simulate applying first aid to a fallen comrade in a stage.

Some want to play the grown-up equivalent of Whack-a-Mole.

A call to have less of a Chucky-Cheese atmosphere and semi-realistic target presentations at a USPSA match is not a bad thing. The occasional screwball stage for comedic relief is not a bad thing, either. I think some chilling out is order here.

[Chriss Grube]

Well last time I checked targets in the real world move and bob and weave and duck. I haven't quite got it down where I can get the bangers to stand perfectly still to get shot. As for real world it is all memory stages...you better remember who the bad guys are and which window or doorway they popped out of! Lots of people bitch about open but ask them in Iraq if they would give up their red dots. You want real world stages... leave your gun at home pick up a cell phone and run like hell. This is a game....not everyone will shoot the stage the same and some will have trouble with certain props.....life aint fair get over it already.

[Rob Boudrie]

As for real world it is all memory stages...you better remember who the bad guys are and which window or doorway they popped out of!

When I hear the term "memory stage" I think of one where there are many different targets you can see from multiple locations, but you can only see some of the targets from each shooting location. Consider a stage with a huge shooting box, 12 shoot targets, and no position from which you can see more than 4 shoot targets.

Such a course of fire becomes a "memory stage" because you have to follow a plan to engage each target with the required number of shots; not waste time re-engaging targets; and not omitting any. In the real world, you don't have to deal with the concept of hostiles which you leave standing because you shot them a bit earlier in the gunfight.

Such stages are fun and a challange, but they tend to measure something other than pure shooting skill.

[moverfive]

Well said Ron! I haven't gotten my Front Sight yet, but having shot with Avery a few times in the past, I agree he prefers a more "simplified" type of stage. So I can understand why he doesn't like some stages being shot today.

USPSA has evolved into more of a "gun-ride," if you will. If given a choice, how many people would prefer to shoot stages like the waterfall stage at the MS Classic or a modified/expanded classifier type of stage? Purists probably would probably prefer the latter and hence what helped form IDPA.

And while I don't think anyone will disagree that a good match should test all-around shooting skills......I still say that a good match will be fun first, difficult second. Assuming that the targets aren't two feet away, over the course of 8 to 10 stages, you will be testing a lot of skills. So design the stage with fun in mind first, then difficulty second.

So if that result is 'bubble gum,' so be it.

[iweiny]

Real men shoot whatever the F they want.

+1

Ira

[tightloop]

You say the trend is toward long freestyle field courses....and the answer to the Why question is that they are the easiest to set up, and have lots of shooting....

I might fall into the Avery camp on this one...I do not believe that you have to shoot 32 times to have a fun, interesting and testing COF...and all the whining you hear comes from the Open guys who do not have an advantage if the COF is 10 shots

There should be stages that limit the advantage of Hi caps,and there should be stages that make the Open guys work for their match points without relying on a Big Stick mag to get there..That is tough to do since they stopped allowing you to have a stage where you reholstered or crawled thru a real Cooper tunnel, or climbed over a 6 foot wall, ...

I don;t know the answer, but the Open guys don;t face a stage where they are at a disadvantage,ever...more ammo, no reholster, no crawling, no climbing..they have it all

From that particular standpoint, I like IDPA...I don't think any Division should NEVER be at a disadvantage...and I think that most of us real old timers who remember the 8 round comped .45 as the hot ticket, kind of feel the same way..but like you say...the trend is to lots of targets and long courses of fire...