Saving Money by Reducing RO Compensation?

[konkapot]

There are lot of different places to discuss USPSA things. Some of them are a more deliberative and stately place. 

 

Some are much less regulated and sensible. One suggestion, posted at a different place, suggested that to save money USPSA should cut back on compensation for ROs who work majors. I find this to be amazingly awful, but maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Mods if my poll sucks, or my post sucks, or I suck feel free to close this. Ain't looking for trouble around here. 

[perttime]

What compensation does a USPSA RO get?

 

I'm on the other side of the world, and shoot IPSC. Here, a RO shoots the Match for free, gets a roof over his/her head (which could be a bed at a hotel or cabin, or a mattress on the floor with a dozen others) and gets a nourishing lunch. A Range Master, or other higher positioned person, has some more benefits but no actual pay.

[Schutzenmeister]

4 minutes ago, perttime said:

What compensation does a USPSA RO get?

 

I'm on the other side of the world, and shoot IPSC. Here, a RO shoots the Match for free, gets a roof over his/her head (which could be a bed at a hotel or cabin, or a mattress on the floor with a dozen others) and gets a nourishing lunch. A Range Master, or other higher positioned person, has some more benefits but no actual pay.

Pretty much similar here.  Nationals will generally also add some compensation for travel.

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, perttime said:

What compensation does a USPSA RO get?

 

I'm on the other side of the world, and shoot IPSC. Here, a RO shoots the Match for free, gets a roof over his/her head (which could be a bed at a hotel or cabin, or a mattress on the floor with a dozen others) and gets a nourishing lunch. A Range Master, or other higher positioned person, has some more benefits but no actual pay.

 

ROs at Nationals get that, plus a teeny per diem I believe, and some money for traveling expenses. But it's not a huge amount, and I doubt they can go and show up and shoot and work with no out-of-pocket expense. Much less any profit.

 

I've worked level two matches and didn't get as much, but usually we weren't traveling as far and such either. But once again there was no profit involved, just some of the expenses covered.

 

Idk about Nationals, but usually at level 2 matches you might get a little gift too. But not an expensive gift lol

[Schutzenmeister]

Oh yeah ... I almost forgot that huge staff banquet at the last nationals I worked.  Pizza and beer at the range.  People want to complain about that?

[Mcfoto]

4 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

ROs at Nationals get that, plus a teeny per diem I believe, and some money for traveling expenses. But it's not a huge amount, and I doubt they can go and show up and shoot and work with no out-of-pocket expense. Much less any profit.

 

I've worked level two matches and didn't get as much, but usually we weren't traveling as far and such either. But once again there was no profit involved, just some of the expenses covered.

 

Idk about Nationals, but usually at level 2 matches you might get a little gift too. But not an expensive gift lol

not even close. I live in Oregon and ROed the low-cap nationals at Frostproof FL a couple years ago. Even though I my hotel was comped (had to take a roommate-TG a nice guy), the per dime and travel fee didn’t come close to covering my airfare and car rental. It cost my roughly a grand to “volunteer.”

[Zincwarrior]

This sounds like an excellent way to lose ROs. 

[RJH]

21 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

not even close. I live in Oregon and ROed the low-cap nationals at Frostproof FL a couple years ago. Even though I my hotel was comped (had to take a roommate-TG a nice guy), the per dime and travel fee didn’t come close to covering my airfare and car rental. It cost my roughly a grand to “volunteer.”

 

 

Right, I think there are many things to look at to save money before cutting RO compensation. 

 

In reality if you can't compensate ROs, maybe there just shouldn't be a Nationals 

[zzt]

Sometimes there is an RO only prize table.  IMO this is a stupid idea.  If you want to cut expenses, reduce the number of Nationals you have.  Again, IMO there are too many.

[THS]

6 minutes ago, zzt said:

 If you want to cut expenses, reduce the number of Nationals you have.  Again, IMO there are too many.

 This.

 

Having several different Nationals is financial foolishness.   If there was a single nationals geared to optics with targets and shots that are tighter through the use of hardcover and no shoots, and a second nationals geared to Iron sights,  we would instantly reduce costs (losses.)  I dont care that Iron Sights could not fill it.  If that is the case cut the staff and run ten stages today, and ten different ones tomorrow thus cutting staff by a half too.

 

Next step- stop sending the entire staff to the events for the entire time.   Or is fully reimbursed travel and per diem now an entitlement?

 

Allocate slots based on performance at Area's or Majors and last year's top 15.  If there were any slots left they could go to a lottery.

 

I'm done competing at the National level- and I never got a slot in USPSA- but there are other shooting sports that don't lose money to hold their championships..... 

[shred]

One Nationals, run-whatcha-brung.  Five days, 1000 shooters and you can pay the ROs more.  Done.

 

[joseywales]

10 minutes ago, shred said:

One Nationals, run-whatcha-brung.  Five days, 1000 shooters and you can pay the ROs more.  Done.

 

^This.

[barry]

Having shot 30+ nationals, I agree with having 1 ,2 at most nationals a year.also kill off the prize for everyone mentality. Give meaningful prizes to top 10( or whatever number makes sense) in each class. Hanging around for 2 hrs to get a $200 certificate off a $9000 build is like winning an empty envelope. 

[konkapot]

Agreed with pretty much everything above. Struck me as such a horrendous suggestion it made my brain hurt. 

 

The "meat" of the idea was that ROs wouldn't get their hotel paid for on the day they shot the match...since on that day there were competitors. 

 

Such a horrible idea. There's a lot of vitriol and angst right now. 

[Schutzenmeister]

23 minutes ago, shred said:

One Nationals, run-whatcha-brung.  Five days, 1000 shooters and you can pay the ROs more.  Done.

 

[motosapiens]

ive worked several nationals, and shot 2 where i didn’t work. for anyone who advocates reducing RO reimbursement, my question is “have you RO’d at nationals, and if not, why not?”

 

is it because the reimbursement is not enough? is it because you know your shooting will suffer from less time to observe and shooting on a compressed schedule while still working at the staff match? if the reimbursement isn’t enough to get these folks to volunteer, does it really make sense to reduce it?

[858]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

ive worked several nationals, and shot 2 where i didn’t work. for anyone who advocates reducing RO reimbursement, my question is “have you RO’d at nationals, and if not, why not?”

 

is it because the reimbursement is not enough? is it because you know your shooting will suffer from less time to observe and shooting on a compressed schedule while still working at the staff match? if the reimbursement isn’t enough to get these folks to volunteer, does it really make sense to reduce it?

 

If a member doesn't shoot nationals, should they have to pay the subsidize portion of the event cost? 

[858]

I think you won't have a functional Nationals match without some types of comps for RO's. The question is how many nationals should the organization have and how much to charge competitors? Nationals used to be a marketing event for USPSA, that doesn't appear the case any longer with all of the different national matches. 

[barry]

1 minute ago, 858 said:

 

If a member doesn't shoot nationals, should they have to pay the subsidize portion of the event cost? 

Is the 3$ the organization gets per shooter the issue with all this uproar?

Seriously 3$ ?? Go back to video games you won't be missed.

[Dr Mitch]

I’ve always lost money ROing area and national matches.  If anything, nationals compensation for ROs should be substantially increased.  Reducing compensation is one of the worst ideas on record.

[Racinready300ex]

Should there be a option for depends? 

 

With out knowing the specific match or how the RO's are compensated how can we really answer? We're just speculating. The matches I've worked I'd say no they don't need to reduce it. They also don't need to increase it any either. 

[konkapot]

Mike I deliberately kept it generic.

 

Didn't want it to get way down in the weeds and get the thread locked. 

 

Broad strokes is what I was looking for. 

[RJH]

I've never worked nationals, but I've worked a few level twos over the years. And I will say this, if a level 2 match can host several hundred competitors, have a decent ro package, and finish in  the black, there's really no reason Nationals can't do that as well.

 

I think shreds idea of a giant Nationals with a thousand shooters doesn't sound horrible. I've been discussing this stuff on other social media as well and I've heard several good ideas to reduce cost, no dumb ideas like docking the guys that are working.

 

But, when apparently one Nationals lost $70,000 and another one lost $50,000 (these are not my numbers, so I'm not guaranteeing them but I heard them from a source that I feel is pretty reliable. But it could be a combination of 50 and 20 make 70 or something like that. Feel free to double check and throw down the correct numbers if these are wrong), at least as far as what I'm hearing elsewhere, things definitely need to change somewhere

Edited February 8 by RJH

[konkapot]

"...things definitely need to change somewhere."

 

Absolute agreement from me on that.

 

I'm skeptical that making it harder to get ROs is the best place to save money. 

[ChuckS]

10 minutes ago, konkapot said:

Mike I deliberately kept it generic.

 

Didn't want it to get way down in the weeds and get the thread locked. 

 

Broad strokes is what I was looking for. 

Thanks! It is much appreciated!

 

Now I will go back to enjoying my massive wealth accumulated working Level 3 matches