Saving Money by Reducing RO Compensation?

[GrumpyOne]

10 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I'd be you they get more then 2k each to cover their travel expenses. 

 

 

The org spends 300k a year on travel after all. 

 

You are probably correct, but even at $5k each, that is still only $45k for that match, still leaving over $100k unaccounted for.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Zincwarrior said:

Trying to figure out why the entire membership should pay for this.  It should be self supporting. 

in your opinion. 

 

whether or not i attend nationals, im ok with my membership dues and my $3/match being used to support it. Im also ok with some of my usa hockey dues being used to support national team programs even tho i certainly will never play on the national team. fortunately stoeger doesn’t play hockey so i’m blissfully unaware of whatever drama there is in that organization, and no one has teamed up with anti-hockey dems to get tournaments cancelled.

 

however i do think it’s totally reasonable to demand more transparency in the accounting and reduce costs to the org where it can reasonably be done. to me the issue is not “losing money on nationals”, its that nobody seems to know why nationals loses money but A1 can spend 1000’s on range improvements and break even.

Edited February 9 by motosapiens

[lroy]

What else does the org spend money on? A magazine?

 

They sure as s#!t don't help at a local level.

[Hoops]

Again, the root of this post is simple: How are $$ being spent and where can $$ be saved.  Just a few thoughts from a businessman and shooter:

 

1. Develop reasonable line-item budget for each national match…USPSA and SCSA.  
 

Question:  For each major match, who owns and provides all the stands, walls, boundary sticks, steel, hangers..etc, etc?  Are there shipping costs?  Liability insurance?  Range owner fees?  All have to be considered and cost applied.

 

2. Establish shooter match fees for each national match based on budget.  
 

3. P&L should be line item: Revenue/Expense.  Footnote's/explaination for all variances over 5%.
 

4.  Publish Budgets and final P/L statement to membership.

 

Note:  This should also be for every Operating and Admin cost.

 

5.  If this process causes match consolidations then that is what should be necessary.

 

I had a $75 million dollar per year company for 40 years.  Multiple plants; domestic and overseas.  I did this process every year, including a 5 year forward looking estimate every year.  The key is discipline within the organization and an unwavering commitment.  

[OPENB]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

Again, the root of this post is simple: How are $$ being spent and where can $$ be saved.  Just a few thoughts from a businessman and shooter:

 

1. Develop reasonable line-item budget for each national match…USPSA and SCSA.  
 

Question:  For each major match, who owns and provides all the stands, walls, boundary sticks, steel, hangers..etc, etc?  Are there shipping costs?  Liability insurance?  Range owner fees?  All have to be considered and cost applied.

 

2. Establish shooter match fees for each national match based on budget.  
 

3. P&L should be line item: Revenue/Expense.  Footnote's/explaination for all variances over 5%.
 

4.  Publish Budgets and final P/L statement to membership.

 

Note:  This should also be for every Operating and Admin cost.

 

5.  If this process causes match consolidations then that is what should be necessary.

 

I had a $75 million dollar per year company for 40 years.  Multiple plants; domestic and overseas.  I did this process every year, including a 5 year forward looking estimate every year.  The key is discipline within the organization and an unwavering commitment.  

You already sound smarter than the BoD! I'd vote for you!

[Hoops]

27 minutes ago, OPENB said:

You already sound smarter than the BoD! I'd vote for you!

Zero chance of that.  
 

But, for those that volunteer to run and get voted in….they accept these basic principles and IMO should not accept broad budgets.

not much to add

 

[858]

Supposedly '22 CO Nationals lost $71k and '23 CO Nationals lost $120k. Neither of those figures include BoD and staff travel expenses, which are estimated over $20k per year. Supposedly, allegedly, etc.

 

 

[Nik Habicht]

On 2/8/2024 at 2:17 PM, GrumpyOne said:

 

 

How much does it cost to rent / lease the range for those 4 days?

        It's not four days. - probably closer to 7-10 by the time you include set-up and teardown, sorta potty delivery, etc.

 

How much does it cost for the targets used?

    Figure average 15 targets/stage, changed out after every 2 (3?) squads? Cats squads tended to run 12-15 shooters when I went.  She stages will be lighter, some heavier, partials and movers might need changing after every squad...

 

How much does it cost for the banquet?

        $40/head? I'm guessing here.....

 

How much of that $200,000 is spent on prizes or plaques for the winners?

 

What other expenses not listed above are incurred and how much are they?

........ Hardware supplies for set-up, probably need to build some extra props, buy fault line, paint, stock water, stock beverages and lunch for staff, printer paper and ink for stats, printing of match booklets and paper score backup sheets, stationary expenses for stage descriptions, timers, range boxes, staples, posters, etc.

 

Not slamming anyone or anything, but these are the questions that need answers before any informed decision can be made on where to cut costs and get the matches back in the black. 

 

What is the total cost vs what is brought in, and what is that total cost derived from?

Those are just a few guesses from when I was doing this - and I'm sure I've forgotten more than I remembered...

[Nik Habicht]

It also occurs to me that Larry Houck ran the Summer Blast for many years - granted it was a ten stage match, that could be shot in a half a day - but it had super heavy RO staffing, in part because Larry asked his staff to paint and reset ll steel and all movers, and he staffed the stages appropriately.  (Why? Consistency of reset eliminates re-shoots, which lengthen the match)

 

I'm pretty sure that despite reportedly treating the staff really well, that match ran in the black.  That said - bringing on enough staff to cover 8 pits and ten stages, is different from what you'll need for an 18-25 stage multi-day match.  And the Summer Blast ran at two clubs with pretty good local support - Fredericksburg, VA and later York, PA - so my guess is hotel costs were considerably cheaper....

 

Finally - what do Nationals entries cost these days? Multigun is the only one with a price - $325 - which is only $50-100 higher than area matches.  Hopefully Handgun Hats are charging at least $450 and selling out.  They used to be twice the rate, roughly, of area matches.  If they're not selling out, then they need to be consolidated.....