9mm Explosion

[BlackApache]

I really didn't want to post this for fear of berating but I feel it is more important to find out how or why this happened.  My reloads are 147gn X-Treme Round Nose, 3.2 gn Titegroup with a C.O.L. of 1.15. so nothing unusual for the load.  I was shooting with 10 rounds in the magazine using a mantis to establish muzzle rise and how long is took for me to get back on target when in the middle of the string this happened...........(see attachment) 

 

I've received a couple of responses, one person said that the round didn't go all the way into battery and fired out of battery, another person said it was a double charge.  What do you guys think??????

 

Thanks in Advance.

 

 

 

[open17]

Out of battery or double charge are the two most likely suspects.  A side view of the case

might narrow it down.  Looking at that case head--I'm going with double charge.

[HesedTech]

4 minutes ago, BlackApache said:

one person said that the round didn't go all the way into battery and fired out of battery, another person said it was a double charge. 

I've seen both, but the damage to the case is a bit odd. It looks like an over charge more than an out of battery because all the out of battery ones I've seen did not have the level of smashed and damaged brass as yours. Normally the out of battery 9mm I've seen split open the case and separated the base from the part left in the chamber. 

 

What reloading press are you using?

[BlackApache]

Using a Lee Pro 1000 with a Lee Auto Drum. I have a good idea how the double charge happened but I wanted opinions of others who have more experience than myself.

[MuayThaiJJ]

Hmm, I recently had a similar blow. Mine was also 147gn RN blue bullet, 3.2gn TG, OAL 1.11

I think I had a bad combo of things: weak nickel casing, pressure spike with the bullet seated too deeply, and a loose chamber

 

[BlackApache]

Here is a couple of close up side views of the casing.

 

 

[Farmer]

I would think 6.4g of TG with a 147 wouldn’t have fit well and also would have disassembled more of your gun. Possibly 1.5 or 1.25 over?  I’ve had the drum not dump the entire charge before but that’s usually a pffffft load. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Farmer

[open17]

Side view of the case looks like it fired out of battery.  

[zzt]

I think the bullet set back when it hit the feed ramp.  That decreased the OAL and raised pressure considerably.

[PhotoRecon]

What headstamp was this brass?

[HesedTech]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:11 AM, BlackApache said:

Using a Lee Pro 1000 with a Lee Auto Drum

My experience with the Lee Progressive presses years ago was they required a closer watch to make sure things are going well. To prevent possible bullet set-back, as some have suggested, use the Lee U die and a neck expander to bell the brass for proper seating of the bullet.

 

That was a huge kaboom and be thankful the chamber was strong. Some guns would have dismantled themselves. 

[GMM50]

The primer looks OK.  No signs of high pressure.

When I've overloaded a 9MM the primers always give an indication that pressure is High.

 

Supported barrell or not.  I'm leaning to our of battery

 

 

[HesedTech]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:51 AM, BlackApache said:

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, GMM50 said:

The primer looks OK.  No signs of high pressure.

 

Serious? We must be looking at a different picture. You must mean Muay's kaboom. 

[71Commander]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:58 AM, open17 said:

 Looking at that case head--I'm going with double charge.

My guess was out of battery. That slammed into the breech face. Double charge would have blown the mag out and maybe the top of the slide/barrel

[71Commander]

On the second set of pics, it looks like case head separation.

[Miranda]

it is interesting... 

there seems to be a ring stamped into the case about 3mm from the mouth.

 

if that stamp was from the chamber, you have a way to estimate out of battery.

 

I see what looks like a crack  in the base of the case.

got any of that batch left?   look for cracks around the primer.

 

I can't think of an easy way make radial cracks like that in brass

so I'd look into the out of battery solution carefully.

 

miranda

[Cherokeewind]

How much pressure is required to cause brass to "flow" as it appears to have done here?

[dansedgli]

I've had heaps of case failures due to no chamber support which is like being out of battery a bit. They never did that to a case head. 

 

Double charge is my guess.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TONY BARONE]

Everything is a guess check your loads and see if the bullets can be forced back into the case and maybe eliminate bullet set back.

[1911in9mm]

Gun pictured appears to a Walther.  So yes it most likely has a stepped chamber that will leave a ring around fired cases.  Miranda is right, you may have other cases fired from that chamber and compare it for OOB.  My PDP will drop the striker well OOB, so much so I rarely ever shoot reloads in it.  

[Powder Finger]

9 hours ago, HesedTech said:

 

 

 

Serious? We must be looking at a different picture. You must mean Muay's kaboom. 

Agree & what primer

[NoSteel]

13 hours ago, zzt said:

I think the bullet set back when it hit the feed ramp.  That decreased the OAL and raised pressure considerably.

That’s what I’m thinking also.  2nd time in last few months I’ve seen this reported using coated bullets.  I have to wonder if because of the bullet type bullet is not be crimped enough allowing setback as the coating is pretty slick.  

[OptimiStick]

I don't think crimping really helps much with neck tension. I crimp  mine just enough to take the bell out on coated rounds, as someone above pointed out I use a U-Die for sizing so I have plenty of neck tension to avoid setback.  One of the reasons I changed away from TG as my powder as it's so dense its hard to see double charges when I was using a manually indexing press (550) . Especially in .45, but in 9mm too.  I switched to n320 and it's much easier to visually catch a double charge...plus I just like it much better than TG for a variety of other reasons. Even though I stay focused, I found distractions happen... and on the 550 I had to make sure I developed a routine. I never leave the press or 'stop' until after I've indexed the plate. Can't tell you how many times something happened - phone call , kids grabbing your attention, - whatever, and I look back down thinking..." did I index that?" and pulled it to weigh it just in case. When I moved to 650 and 1100, is when I really realized the advantage mechanically indexing gives you.  Whatever the cause - glad no one was hurt and you've still got 10 digits.

[RGA]

I think Miranda is correct as well. When I have the time I will check and compare with fired cases from my Q5.

[shred]

Fired out of battery for sure.  You don't get brass going all over unless there's space for it to go into.  Unless the barrel is cracked wide open it didn't happen in the chamber.  Years ago as part of a test-to-destruction, we loaded a 9mm round with as much bullseye as would physically fit and tapped another bullet into the barrel just far enough the next round would chamber and even it didn't do that when fired (remotely from behind strong cover).  Broke a lot of other stuff.

 

What else happened and why it was OOB is going to take investigation.

 

(MuyThai's is a pretty classic case blowout.  Likely a different story there)