SS restrictions, the hill the division will die on?

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I’d have to say open isn’t going anywhere….   Sure everyone that was playing in production went to CO (for the most part) and some of the open shooters went to CO. But it’s still going strong and in some cases there’s even more open numbers then CO.  

[motosapiens]

i think co is pretty hot right now, but it will probably stabilize at a slightly lower percentage. remember pcc was hot a couple years ago and now almost no one but doofuses, pro shooters and clueless noobs shoots pcc. CO is actually fun, so i don’t expect such a significant dropoff, but its still minor, and aint nobody be liking to aim.

[ltdmstr]

MI Sectional.

 

Division
Limited 10	0
Limited	29
Revolver	1
Single Stack	10
Production	18
Open	39
Pcc	15
Carry Optics	67

[ltdmstr]

WI Sectional.

 

Division
Limited	32
Limited 10	0
Open	38
Production	21
Revolver	0
Single Stack	7
Carry Optics	62
Pcc	12

[ltdmstr]

IL Sectinonal.

 

Division
Limited	38
Limited 10	1
Open	37
Production	22
Revolver	0
Single Stack	12
Carry Optics	71
Pcc	11

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

8 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

MI Sectional.

 

Division
Limited 10	0
Limited	29
Revolver	1
Single Stack	10
Production	18
Open	39
Pcc	15
Carry Optics	67

You continue to pull up stats showing lower numbers and I can do the same with matches with higher numbers in open and limited.  I’m not sure I’d consider any of this statistical data to represent open or limited is “dying”.   

[ltdmstr]

11 hours ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

You continue to pull up stats showing lower numbers and I can do the same with matches with higher numbers in open and limited.  I’m not sure I’d consider any of this statistical data to represent open or limited is “dying”.   

 

First of all, what I posted wasn't meant to be entirely serious.  It was more of a light-hearted joke.  Having said that, maybe go back and reread what I originally posted.  Basically, that if CO continues to grow at the pace it has for several more years, then there won't be much left of Limited and Open.  Not saying for sure that's going to happen, but there's a trend in that direction (CO getting bigger and the others getting smaller).

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

5 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

First of all, what I posted wasn't meant to be entirely serious.  It was more of a light-hearted joke.  Having said that, maybe go back and reread what I originally posted.  Basically, that if CO continues to grow at the pace it has for several more years, then there won't be much left of Limited and Open.  Not saying for sure that's going to happen, but there's a trend in that direction (CO getting bigger and the others getting smaller).

Yes.  Your post seemed very lighthearted and in jest. And you in no way continued to imply that Open and limited was dying by posting those pics.  

[motosapiens]

46 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

First of all, what I posted wasn't meant to be entirely serious.  It was more of a light-hearted joke.  Having said that, maybe go back and reread what I originally posted.  Basically, that if CO continues to grow at the pace it has for several more years, then there won't be much left of Limited and Open.  Not saying for sure that's going to happen, but there's a trend in that direction (CO getting bigger and the others getting smaller).

i agree with your math, but i don’t believe co will continue to grow. i think its probably close to the peak, but i don’t expect the big dropoff we saw with pcc, because obviously co is less stupid and more fun. i think production will continue to decline as more LE agencies and concealed carriers transition to optics.

[shred]

Every division or new shooting sport is the "fastest growing" until it matures.  IME CO is maturing, but not all the way there yet.

 

[Bakerjd]

Just talking with different open gun builders I really don't think open is going away. They are all booked up pretty solid. But like others have said for less then half the price of just a run of the mill open gun you can get an entire CO setup. You can also buy ammo off the shelf, and even "gamer" ammo. Open take a dedication a lot of people aren't willing or even able to afford. 

[Racinready300ex]

6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

Just talking with different open gun builders I really don't think open is going away. They are all booked up pretty solid. But like others have said for less then half the price of just a run of the mill open gun you can get an entire CO setup. You can also buy ammo off the shelf, and even "gamer" ammo. Open take a dedication a lot of people aren't willing or even able to afford. 

 

Really, if someone wants to shoot open you get a checkmate ready to go for 3k, Bulls run like 3.5k. And if you're willing to venture into the used market you can get something for less. It's certainly still more expensive then CO. But you can pretty easily drop 2k-2.5k in a CO gun. I've seen guys running AO1LD's, that's almost 2800, then add the slide milling, and send it to CZC for trigger work Plus a dot and probably some grips and it costs more then that checkmate for Bull armory gun did. 

 

The ammo thing is more of a issue for sure, especially with components so hard to get right now. 

[varminter22]

For sure, the "P" in USPSA should be removed.  

[Braxton1]

...and to think that Production was supposed to be the Division to save Practical Shooting.  "Run what you brung, just like it came out of your Local Gun Shop.".

 

I like shooting my Glocks and I like iron sights over dots, so I'll stay with Production, but I am starting to feel like the Maytag repairman, especially at Level 1's.

[RJH]

8 hours ago, varminter22 said:

For sure, the "P" in USPSA should be removed.  

 

The funny thing is, my most "practical" gun is my carry-op's gun. It has a big mag, a dot, a light, threaded barrel, and suppressor height sites. It does have about a 2 lb trigger and some grip tape, but those are both pretty practical as well. So maybe the P in USPSA is under represented and needs to be Giant, since USPSA has added carryops which is the most practical division in a long time 

 

 

 

Edited to add: the only way my carry-ops gun could be much more practical, would be if USPSA would allow me to put a magwell on it. Because if it was a full-time carry gun for me it would have a magwell, right now it does not simply because of the rules...

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by RJH

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, RJH said:

Edited to add: the only way my carry-ops gun could be much more practical, would be if USPSA would allow me to put a magwell on it. Because if it was a full-time carry gun for me it would have a magwell, right now it does not simply because of the rules...

 

 

lol, of course, because everyone wants a fatter gun to carry, lolz.  of course open shooters will argue they would full-time carry a 200mm magazine.

[Thomas H]

24 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

lol, of course, because everyone wants a fatter gun to carry, lolz.  of course open shooters will argue they would full-time carry a 200mm magazine.

 

I'll note that while I personally don't have a magwell on my carry gun, there are a number of decent "carry" style magwells out there that don't make the gun fatter (or only incrementally) but instead smooth out the magwell entry and also give a spot to help hand placement. (TTI's carry magwell for G19s, as an example.  I personally think it actually makes the gun easier to shoot without making it harder to conceal. Also definitely reduces pinches you hands on a reload!)

 

I will say that once CO allowed AIWB and lights, we suddenly (the very next match) had 4 new shooters show up and use their carry rigs for USPSA. 

 

Does this mean that everyone shooting CO is using a carry rig?  Good lord, no.  But...it is certainly something that some people are doing.  It is certainly practical for them. 

 

 

[RJH]

50 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

lol, of course, because everyone wants a fatter gun to carry, lolz.  of course open shooters will argue they would full-time carry a 200mm magazine.

 

Yep, basically what Thomas h said. I wouldn't put a ginormous magwell on that gun, but they do make one that's similar to what an s&a is on a 1911 that I would love to have on it

[Racinready300ex]

11 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Yep, basically what Thomas h said. I wouldn't put a ginormous magwell on that gun, but they do make one that's similar to what an s&a is on a 1911 that I would love to have on it

 

You might not, but if allowed the ginormous magwells will be what we see. And they'll probably be made of brass. 

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

You might not, but if allowed the ginormous magwells will be what we see. And they'll probably be made of brass. 

 

Yeah, but that wouldn't bother me if someone else wanted to do that. It's just not what I would do. And I was specifically talking about the practicality of the carry ops guns as the rules sit today, not really lobbying for a rule change. Because in reality carry ops guns are very practical as the rules sit now, or at least they can be.

 

But then again, I do occasionally carry my carry ops gun

Edited May 3, 2022 by RJH

[Racinready300ex]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Yeah, but that wouldn't bother me if someone else wanted to do that. It's just not what I would do. And I was specifically talking about the practicality of the carry ops guns as the rules sit today, not really lobbying for a real change. Because in reality carry ops guns are very practical as the rules sit now, or at least they can be

 

can be for sure. 

[MikeBurgess]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:21 PM, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

Yes.  Your post seemed very lighthearted and in jest. And you in no way continued to imply that Open and limited was dying by posting those pics.  

OpenshooterAclass4lyfe may not be saying Limited is dying, but I will 

 

Ok OK, Limited may not be dying but it sure as heck is shrinking fast. looks like its down about 18% in the last 8 years from about 37% of match entries to around 19% 

I will admit that this data set is not every single USPSA match for the last 8 years but it is many thousands of them.  and the Data says anything with Iron sights is shrinking and everything without is either reasonably stable or growing  ( I discount Revo remaining mostly stable because its so small it doesn't matter)

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by MikeBurgess

[CHARLES D]

I agree with the OP on changes made in SS.  Many companies are modifying their slides and installing bull barrels. As far as Production, I feel the powers to be should put a survey out to membership allowing Production going to

15 rds. 

[usmc1974]

1 hour ago, CHARLES D said:

I agree with the OP on changes made in SS.  Many companies are modifying their slides and installing bull barrels. As far as Production, I feel the powers to be should put a survey out to membership allowing Production going to

15 rds. 

I think Production should go to 15 rounds. Mainly because SSP in IDPA went to 15 rounds. This is just me, but I shoot regeneration 5 Glock 19 With red dot and Weapon mounted light, my glock already has it's own magwell built in. It is my everyday Carry Gun I also kept the 4.5 trigger.

[RJH]

So, I shot my single stack gun today for the first time in quite a while. Probably still my favorite gun. Probably going to go back to single stack again here pretty quick. Or l10, or limited with 10 round mags in my 1911. 1911 and 45 ACP because of God and John Browning