Is SCSA big enough to have its own BOD?

[AR_James]

11 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Tried that a few days ago.  Nothing so far.

 

Thank you

 

Same.  Emailed him once.  Never received a reply, but it is the only contact info I have for him.  

 

 

 

[RaylanGivens]

@bgary...  Nice to see you posting here again!

 

I'm curious whether AD's bring up Steel Challenge issues in the BOD meetings?  I don't normally read the BOD minutes...  I'm a USPSA CRO with the Steel Challenge Endorsement.

 

Would you be willing to bring up @Hoops suggestion for smaller versions of Outer Limits and Speed Option?  There are lots of clubs that can't fit OL or SO in their current bays...  It would give them an option to run eight stage Steel Challenge matches...  or at least cycle through eight different stages.

[Hoops]

22 hours ago, AR_James said:

 

Same.  Emailed him once.  Never received a reply, but it is the only contact info I have for him.  

 

 

 

I have been told that Chad is located in OK.  

 

Still no reply to my email.  Some AD's have their phone number shown.....Chad does not.....so email is the only means of contact.

[Sarge]

23 hours ago, Hoops said:

 

As I see it, Area Directors are non-paid salary positions with voting rights along with the BOD. 

 

 

 

 

They are the BOD

[joseywales]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:45 AM, AR_James said:

 

Same.  Emailed him once.  Never received a reply, but it is the only contact info I have for him.  

 

 

 

Current Area 4 director is Prov1x on this forum

[warpspeed]

So a separate BoD is needed because ?  

[Hoops]

On 9/4/2021 at 11:46 AM, warpspeed said:

So a separate BoD is needed because ?  

Do you mind stating whether you shoot USPSA only or you shoot SCSA as well?

 

Thanks

[eisenhow]

I'd vote No.  Maybe I'm spoiled:  I've known and regularly shot with, the last three Area 7 directors.  Lee, our current AD, regularly posts which matches he will be shooting that month, which usually include a steel challenge match, and asks people to introduce themselves and bring up any issues they have.  I shoot both, regularly help out at my clubs USPSA match and have been running registration/scoring for our SC matches for 7 years.  

-Mike CRO w/ SC endorsement.

[AR_James]

2 hours ago, eisenhow said:

I'd vote No.  Maybe I'm spoiled:  I've known and regularly shot with, the last three Area 7 directors.  Lee, our current AD, regularly posts which matches he will be shooting that month, which usually include a steel challenge match, and asks people to introduce themselves and bring up any issues they have.  I shoot both, regularly help out at my clubs USPSA match and have been running registration/scoring for our SC matches for 7 years.  

-Mike CRO w/ SC endorsement.

 

Sounds like you have an outstanding AD.  Unfortunately that is not the case across the board.  Just as an example, this was a response from a USPSA Section Coordinator when he was asked about supporting/growing Steel Challenge in his area: "not a function of my role as Section Coordinator", "steel challenge isn’t my purview. Steel Challenge isn’t even mentioned in the sections by-laws."

 

I am not saying SC needs its own separate board of directors.  But, forming a committee or something similar of dedicated steel challenge participants to make decisions/rules for the sport seems logical. 

 

 

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, AR_James said:

 

Sounds like you have an outstanding AD.  Unfortunately that is not the case across the board.  Just as an example, this was a response from a USPSA Section Coordinator when he was asked about supporting/growing Steel Challenge in his area: "not a function of my role as Section Coordinator", "steel challenge isn’t my purview. Steel Challenge isn’t even mentioned in the sections by-laws." --- snip ---

 

 

In this case, I would contact the Area Director to see if they support this.

 

[eisenhow]

3 hours ago, AR_James said:

 

Sounds like you have an outstanding AD.  Unfortunately that is not the case across the board.  Just as an example, this was a response from a USPSA Section Coordinator when he was asked about supporting/growing Steel Challenge in his area: "not a function of my role as Section Coordinator", "steel challenge isn’t my purview. Steel Challenge isn’t even mentioned in the sections by-laws."

 

I am not saying SC needs its own separate board of directors.  But, forming a committee or something similar of dedicated steel challenge participants to make decisions/rules for the sport seems logical. 

 

 

I guess I'm REALLY lucky because my section coordinator was the match director for our USPSA area match and is a SC Club 13 member.  

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, AR_James said:

 

Sounds like you have an outstanding AD.  Unfortunately that is not the case across the board.  Just as an example, this was a response from a USPSA Section Coordinator when he was asked about supporting/growing Steel Challenge in his area: "not a function of my role as Section Coordinator", "steel challenge isn’t my purview. Steel Challenge isn’t even mentioned in the sections by-laws."

 

I am not saying SC needs its own separate board of directors.  But, forming a committee or something similar of dedicated steel challenge participants to make decisions/rules for the sport seems logical. 

 

 

perhaps you just need a section coordinator for steel challenge in your area. I nominate you.

[Hoops]

23 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

perhaps you just need a section coordinator for steel challenge in your area. I nominate you.

I have seen a few comments relative to "section coordinator" within each Area.  Section Coordinator's are defined in the bylaws as designated to be within each Area and not across Area boundries (unless special circumstances).

 

Question:  Does anyone know of a Section Coordinator within your Area and what they actually do?  This is an elected position but I don't recall an election within Area 4 for a 

 

Thanks..........

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

54 minutes ago, Hoops said:

I have seen a few comments relative to "section coordinator" within each Area.  Section Coordinator's are defined in the bylaws as designated to be within each Area and not across Area boundries (unless special circumstances).

 

Question:  Does anyone know of a Section Coordinator within your Area and what they actually do?  This is an elected position but I don't recall an election within Area 4 for a 

 

Thanks..........

 

 

 

I thought the SC is elected by the MD's. They're probably in charge of the section match if there is one. And I know they're supposed to help new clubs get setup and started. A MD will likely know more.

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

Question:  Does anyone know of a Section Coordinator within your Area and what they actually do?  This is an elected position but I don't recall an election within Area 4 for a 

 

 

Yes, I know our section coordinator. He basically keeps in touch with the 6 or so uspsa clubs in our section and tries to make sure match info is getting out to people and we have a club willing to put on an official section championship each year.

[Hoops]

3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I thought the SC is elected by the MD's. They're probably in charge of the section match if there is one. And I know they're supposed to help new clubs get setup and started. A MD will likely know more.

 

I initially voted yes in this poll re: more BOD's but after reading several posts, I decided to do some reseach.  The notations below are from the Bylaws posted on the SCSA website under member resources specifically for Area Coordinators.  

 

What I have not been able to locate is a list of names of Coordinators within Area 4 (or any other Area).  I have asked SCSA.org for the info.  No reply yet.  When I get the info, I will share it.  If anyone else has the info for Area 4, please let me know the name.  

 

ARTICLE 11 ‐ AREA DIVISIONS: There shall be established within the United States certain geographical designations known as Areas. Each Area may be further divided into two or more Sections. The Board of Directors shall determine the number and composition of Areas, subject to Article 6 of these bylaws.

 

ARTICLE 12 ‐ SECTIONS: A Section is a state or geographical area that contains a minimum of two affiliated clubs and is chartered by the corporation. 12.1 Chartering of Section: The President may charter a Section either upon application of the clubs within a defined geographical area or he may split an existing Section upon the recommendation of the Area Director. The Area Director shall appoint a Section Coordinator to administer a Section until the clubs hold an election therein.

 

12.2 Section Coordinators: The Section Coordinator shall be elected by the member clubs within his assigned Section, on the basis of one vote per member, or member club, as determined by the Section bylaws. The Section Coordinator's term of office shall be determined by the Section bylaws, and Sections must hold an election at least every two years. It is the responsibility of the Section Coordinator and the member clubs to organize and conduct an election each regular two year election cycle for their respective Section. 

 

12.3 Purpose: The Section is the local link to USPSA for the shooter and section clubs. The Section Coordinator is responsible for insuring that every activity within the section represents the best traditions and standards of USPSA. Coordinator supports the development of new shooters and new clubs by providing information, support and guidance 

[Hoops]

6 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

Yes, I know our section coordinator. He basically keeps in touch with the 6 or so uspsa clubs in our section and tries to make sure match info is getting out to people and we have a club willing to put on an official section championship each year.

Makes sense to me.  SC more involved at the local level than the overall AD.  

 

I'm trying to locate ours.....if any....for Area 4.

 

Thank you

[cferree]

I voted yes since bad knees have me shooting 5 or 6 SCSA matches to every USPSA match, and I see issues that could be resolved with direct/better representation.

 

Here's my comparison:  If IMSA (road racing for those who don't follow sports car racing) bought NHRA (drag racing) do you think the current or future NHRA officials would go to a 2 day IMSA school and then take an adder class to get NHRA certified?  How about making NHRA divisions match IMSA's sport cars?  They're two totally different sports with minimal cross over. 

SCSA still doesn't have a SCSA specific RO program.  There are 4 groups of guns in SCSA and only one matches USPSA (centerfire pistol).  Rimfire handguns and long guns typical come to the line bagged, and so do most PCC's.  Very few USPSA shooters bring there PCC's to the line bagged.  Because of this, the unloaded and show clear commands need to be adjusted.  The idea of keeping the commands the same as USPSA because of conveniences makes no sense.

I'm not a marketing person, so I don't have any ideas on how, but we need a strategy to get SCSA shooters to join the org.  I shoot matches were half the competitors aren't members.

 

So for those who asked what wrong and why does SCSA need more/better representation: no RO certification; rules issues (range commands specifically); and a way get new shooters to join the org.

 

What's good: more juniors and lady shooters participating than any other shooter discipline I've been a part of (I know the shotgun sports attract a lot of juniors and ladies); more clubs starting to shoot SCSA (in the SE, can't speak for other parts of the county); and a to lesser degree, a gateway action shooting sport for those new to shooting in general.

[EarlKeese]

17 minutes ago, cferree said:

I voted yes since bad knees have me shooting 5 or 6 SCSA matches to every USPSA match, and I see issues that could be resolved with direct/better representation.

 

Here's my comparison:  If IMSA (road racing for those who don't follow sports car racing) bought NHRA (drag racing) do you think the current or future NHRA officials would go to a 2 day IMSA school and then take an adder class to get NHRA certified?  How about making NHRA divisions match IMSA's sport cars?  They're two totally different sports with minimal cross over. 

SCSA still doesn't have a SCSA specific RO program.  There are 4 groups of guns in SCSA and only one matches USPSA (centerfire pistol).  Rimfire handguns and long guns typical come to the line bagged, and so do most PCC's.  Very few USPSA shooters bring there PCC's to the line bagged.  Because of this, the unloaded and show clear commands need to be adjusted.  The idea of keeping the commands the same as USPSA because of conveniences makes no sense.

I'm not a marketing person, so I don't have any ideas on how, but we need a strategy to get SCSA shooters to join the org.  I shoot matches were half the competitors aren't members.

 

So for those who asked what wrong and why does SCSA need more/better representation: no RO certification; rules issues (range commands specifically); and a way get new shooters to join the org.

 

What's good: more juniors and lady shooters participating than any other shooter discipline I've been a part of (I know the shotgun sports attract a lot of juniors and ladies); more clubs starting to shoot SCSA (in the SE, can't speak for other parts of the county); and a to lesser degree, a gateway action shooting sport for those new to shooting in general.

Well said.

[motosapiens]

57 minutes ago, cferree said:

Here's my comparison:  If IMSA (road racing for those who don't follow sports car racing) bought NHRA (drag racing) do you think the current or future NHRA officials would go to a 2 day IMSA school and then take an adder class to get NHRA certified?  How about making NHRA divisions match IMSA's sport cars?  They're two totally different sports with minimal cross over. 

 

i think that's a poor analogy. Steel and USPSA are very similar sports with a tremendous amount of crossover and very very similar equipment and safety rules. Look at the results at worlds in the centerfire divisions and you will mostly see well-known uspsa names. Pretty sure the same is not true when you look at the results of the two motorsports you mentioned.

 

Perhaps it would be useful to offer a separate steel-only RO certification for people that have no interest in uspsa and don't want to learn about target scoring or movement issues or whatever.

[cferree]

Not a poor analogy.  USPSA forced the Centerfire Pistol Divisions to match USPSA.  Steel shooters lobbied and lost for TWO centerfire pistol divisions: CFPO and CFPI.  If the org felt more subdivision was needed, it should have been handled with Categories.  Most don't remember than Limited 10 and Revolver were Categories under Limited before they became stand alone Divisions.  Last time I checked, there wasn't a USPSA Division for rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle or PCCI.  

 

They are two related, but totally different disciplines.  I shoot three monthly matches that less than 5% of the competitors currently shoot or have ever shot USPSA.  

 

And, I've road raced for over 30 years and still drive one or two events a year.  I've never drag raced or had any interest in drag racing.  I live 10 minutes from Atlanta Dragstrip, and I've never stepped foot on the property.  Two different types of auto racing = two different shooting disciplines.

[Hoops]

16 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

Yes, I know our section coordinator. He basically keeps in touch with the 6 or so uspsa clubs in our section and tries to make sure match info is getting out to people and we have a club willing to put on an official section championship each year.

Good morning,

 

You reference your SC keeps in touch with 6 or so USPSA clubs in your section.  Does your SC shoot or is involved in any of your local SCSA matches?

 

Thanks

[motosapiens]

2 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Good morning,

 

You reference your SC keeps in touch with 6 or so USPSA clubs in your section.  Does your SC shoot or is involved in any of your local SCSA matches?

 

Thanks

he occasionally shoots our local steel matches. I don't believe he travels to far-away steel matches.

[Hoops]

Just now, motosapiens said:

he occasionally shoots our local steel matches. I don't believe he travels to far-away steel matches.

Thanks for quick response.

 

The reason for my question is wondering where his focus is.  So far, I have managed to locate one AD and one SC.  The clubs they are affilated with are USPSA.  Do they sometimes shoot a SCSA match......yes.  But their focus and "passion" is USPSA.  Is this how your SC is?   

 

Thanks

[motosapiens]

32 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Thanks for quick response.

 

The reason for my question is wondering where his focus is.  So far, I have managed to locate one AD and one SC.  The clubs they are affilated with are USPSA.  Do they sometimes shoot a SCSA match......yes.  But their focus and "passion" is USPSA.  Is this how your SC is?   

 

Probably. It's how I am too. I shoot steel as a fun and easy diversion, but my focus and passion is USPSA.