Is SCSA big enough to have its own BOD?

[ZackJones]

I'm still alive and kicking. This past year has been an extremely busy one for me. In my real job I had a project that was required to be completed prior to 8/31 or else the servers would be shut down until it was done. I couldn't let that happen. We did the cut over to the new servers on 8/14 so that huge weight is finally off my shoulders. 

 

I've skimmed through the thread and will add my 2 cents worth shortly.

 

[UFO]

 When I started this topic almost a month ago. I didn't do it with the idea that something was wrong with SCSA. It was a general question based on how fast SCSA has grown over the last few years, and knowing that most of our current BOD/AD's don't give SCSA much thought or attention. 

 I'm amazed this has had such active participation. I anxiously wait to see what Zack has to say.

 Just like elections, the numbers here are low, but a 76% vote of yes, I believe, says a lot.

 

[Hoops]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:30 PM, ZackJones said:

I'm still alive and kicking. This past year has been an extremely busy one for me. In my real job I had a project that was required to be completed prior to 8/31 or else the servers would be shut down until it was done. I couldn't let that happen. We did the cut over to the new servers on 8/14 so that huge weight is finally off my shoulders. 

 

I've skimmed through the thread and will add my 2 cents worth shortly.

 

Zach, compared to many who have commented in this post I am relatively new to understanding the SCSA/USPSA heiarchy, including AD's and where they are, SC's.   I may not have been looking in the right places, but since you have a USPSA.org email address, I have been unable to find you in the SCSA/USPSA websites.

 

When you reply to the post comments, for those of us who may not be aware of your role with SCSA, perhaps a short overview would be helpful.

 

Glad to hear your deadline pressures have eased up.  

 

Thanks

[ZackJones]

11 hours ago, Hoops said:

Zach, compared to many who have commented in this post I am relatively new to understanding the SCSA/USPSA heiarchy, including AD's and where they are, SC's.   I may not have been looking in the right places, but since you have a USPSA.org email address, I have been unable to find you in the SCSA/USPSA websites.

 

When you reply to the post comments, for those of us who may not be aware of your role with SCSA, perhaps a short overview would be helpful.

 

Glad to hear your deadline pressures have eased up.  

 

Thanks

I'm not worthy of being listed :). I serve as the Steel Challenge National Program Director for USPSA. I was appointed to that position by Mike Foley. I do anything and everything related to the sport. Per-covid it wasn't unusual for my wife and I to be on the at least monthly to go run matches. I've served as Range Officer, Match Director, Stats Officer, Range Master at everything from club level matches through the world shoot. Although I basically live and breath steel challenge for USPSA I do not work alone nor do I have a ton of say so on things. I am consulted for my input but ultimately it's the USPSA BoD that makes all decisions regarding the sport. 

 

Regarding AD/SC it basically breaks down like this. The USA is divided into 8 areas. within each area there are section coordinators. The SC's work with AD's for slots at nations, new club development, etc. 

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, ZackJones said:

I'm not worthy of being listed :). I serve as the Steel Challenge National Program Director for USPSA. I was appointed to that position by Mike Foley. I do anything and everything related to the sport. Per-covid it wasn't unusual for my wife and I to be on the at least monthly to go run matches. I've served as Range Officer, Match Director, Stats Officer, Range Master at everything from club level matches through the world shoot. Although I basically live and breath steel challenge for USPSA I do not work alone nor do I have a ton of say so on things. I am consulted for my input but ultimately it's the USPSA BoD that makes all decisions regarding the sport. 

 

Regarding AD/SC it basically breaks down like this. The USA is divided into 8 areas. within each area there are section coordinators. The SC's work with AD's for slots at nations, new club development, etc. 

Thank you.  This helped me understand a bit more.  I understood from the numerous posts that Area Directors are related to USPSA (the sport).  I haven't read, and could be wrong, but I don't perceive that there is an exclusive SCSA (the sport) serving as AD.  In fact, the response from HQ was Areas and Sections are exclusive to USPSA the sport and SCSA does not have Areas or Sections.

 

I have had only 2 thoughts about SCSA and they were a 2-3 second penalty for disabled shooters on OL and whether or not SCSA should consider adding 1 to 2 additional official stages that would give more options to ranges that can't physically fit OL and SO.  Many people that I have spoken with think this would benefit SCSA but none that I spoke to actually knew anyone to go to with the idea.

 

It was this thought from my other post lead me down the path of thinking about this post.....should SCSA have it's own BOD (AD's).   Perhaps you Zach should have a seat at the table and your position noted in the SCSA website?  You have the passion for the sport and know a lot of people and would be a great "go to person" .......so giving you a vote and a voice seems logical (to me) for SCSA.  

 

Thank you.

[ZackJones]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:00 PM, Hoops said:

Thank you.  This helped me understand a bit more.  I understood from the numerous posts that Area Directors are related to USPSA (the sport).  I haven't read, and could be wrong, but I don't perceive that there is an exclusive SCSA (the sport) serving as AD.  In fact, the response from HQ was Areas and Sections are exclusive to USPSA the sport and SCSA does not have Areas or Sections.

 

I have had only 2 thoughts about SCSA and they were a 2-3 second penalty for disabled shooters on OL and whether or not SCSA should consider adding 1 to 2 additional official stages that would give more options to ranges that can't physically fit OL and SO.  Many people that I have spoken with think this would benefit SCSA but none that I spoke to actually knew anyone to go to with the idea.

 

It was this thought from my other post lead me down the path of thinking about this post.....should SCSA have it's own BOD (AD's).   Perhaps you Zach should have a seat at the table and your position noted in the SCSA website?  You have the passion for the sport and know a lot of people and would be a great "go to person" .......so giving you a vote and a voice seems logical (to me) for SCSA.  

 

Thank you.

 

You are correct. There isn't anyone named as an SCSA area director; however, the current 8 AD's do hear discussions and vote on SCSA subjects so that really makes the current 8 AD's for USPSA handgun and Steel Challenge. The same can be said for multi-gun. We do not have named multi-gun AD's but they hear discussions about that and vote on rules, etc. 

 

The penalty for OL did need to be standardized. Having one RM not enforce a penalty, another enforce 1 second penalty didn't make for consistency across the stage which makes things like setting peak stage times difficult. I lobbied hard for a standard 3 second procedural penalty but the board approved a 4 second penalty. 

 

Additional official stages has been discussed but no real action has been taken on it. We have attempted to mitigate the issue of not being able to setup OL and SO by introducing the "speed six" as Jeff Jones calls them. This is what several state-championship matches choose to run. 

 

Regarding your last paragraph that's the same idea that I thought about this weekend while discussing Steel Challenge with a member that's going to be running for President. I completely agree that we should have representation at the BoD level. Prior to being fired Mike Foley was that representation. I don't need to be involved with all of the BoD activities so having a brief period of time at the beginning of the board meetings where I could present times to the board is a good idea. 

[bigdawgbeav]

I know this discussion is a couple of years old, but with the current shenanigans with the USPSA Board, maybe we SC-Only shooters start looking at a secession...

 

I wish I was going the WSSC just for the member's meeting.  THAT should be entertaining.  

[Joe4d]

11 minutes ago, bigdawgbeav said:

I know this discussion is a couple of years old, but with the current shenanigans with the USPSA Board, maybe we SC-Only shooters start looking at a secession...

 

I wish I was going the WSSC just for the member's meeting.  THAT should be entertaining.  

I have started steel challenge, personally I see no reason whatsoever to join the org,, and if I was running a club, I wouldnt bother giving the org a slice of my income.  I mean good grief,, USPSA does nothing for the sport. Dotn even have an RO program. Simply call it the monthly static steel match, and use different names for the stages.

 

[revolver45]

We are switching over to Rimfire Challenge for most of our matches this season. Seems that's what most people prefer to shoot now a days. We also have Steel Plate matches and call them just that. It's either static or falling steel depending on what the nucleus of our followers want. It works for us so far. 

[blackss06]

I’d support SCSA breaking back off on its own but if my local clubs changed to rimfire Challenge or outlaw steel matches then I would just go to different clubs. Those are cute for big matches but for me the whole addictive competitive component of SCSA is because you can track your times over time and compare them to everyone else in the country. 

[Hoops]

Official SCSA will remain my choice.  It was disappointing that after 79 people took the time to respond to BOD’s regarding Peak Times and other suggestions, they did not even respond.  
 

It is my opinion, to energize and promote growth for SCSA, there needs to be a couple of new stages and a separate RO certification….just to mention a couple items.  There’s more I’m sure.

 

SCSA is more than the WSSC and 3 or 4 pages buried in the monthly magazine.

 

Even though I think it’s a mistake, I do not think the BOD’s will change its focus.  So I’m not going to continue commenting about it and instead will just continue to shoot matches.  

 

[blackss06]

Hoops,

 

Is getting shooters out at matches an issue in your area? I only ask because you mentioned energizing and promoting growth but where I’m at, a lot of level 1 monthly matches are booked full with a waitlist a lot of the times. We need more clubs and matches than we do participation here (at a few clubs, others could use some work and rarely fill up.) We even had some matches fill up in December. 
 

Overall I think SCSA is doing great as a sport. I see a lot of the same people enjoying the sport and welcoming new people in all the time. Sure, I’d change some things here or there but as someone who has shot an SCSA match almost every weekend(sometimes twice a weekend), and a bunch of majors for 16 months straight, I’d say the health of the sport is pretty good. 

[Joe4d]

3 hours ago, blackss06 said:

I’d support SCSA breaking back off on its own but if my local clubs changed to rimfire Challenge or outlaw steel matches then I would just go to different clubs. Those are cute for big matches but for me the whole addictive competitive component of SCSA is because you can track your times over time and compare them to everyone else in the country. 

you do know dollar general sells pens and small notepads ?

 

 

[warpspeed]

The only way SCSA gets its own BoD is to be sold/bought from USPSA and unless the Org needs some cash, it probably won't happen.

 

I'm just not sure how much it would take and if they'd even listen.

[Nolan]

2 hours ago, warpspeed said:

The only way SCSA gets its own BoD is to be sold/bought from USPSA and unless the Org needs some cash, it probably won't happen.

 

I'm just not sure how much it would take and if they'd even listen.

 

LOL!  Oh, the Org needs cash after the last couple of years losses.  Somebody could probably buy SCSA pretty cheap in a couple of months.

 

Nolan

Edited April 22, 2023 by Nolan
bloody spill checker! LOL!

[warpspeed]

14 hours ago, Nolan said:

 

LOL!  Oh, the Org needs cash after the last couple of years losses.  Somebody could probably buy SCSA pretty cheap in a couple of months.

 

Nolan

 

[blackss06]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:01 PM, Joe4d said:

you do know dollar general sells pens and small notepads ?

 

 

That sounds like a great place for non classified non members to write their opinions about the sport. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by blackss06

[GigG]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:23 AM, Joe4d said:

Dotn even have an RO program.

 

There is a Steel Challenge endorsement for ROs. 

[Joe4d]

14 hours ago, GigG said:

 

There is a Steel Challenge endorsement for ROs. 

yeh after sitting through a day and a half of irrelevant USPSA scoring and stage set up rules,

 

[UFO]

On 5/9/2023 at 4:10 AM, Joe4d said:

yeh after sitting through a day and a half of irrelevant USPSA scoring and stage set up rules,

 

No, you can take the class and test online if your already a certified RO.

[UFO]

Well, I started this thread a year and a half ago, and things have happened. There is an advisory committee that makes recommendations for SCSA rule changes. The positions are held by serious SCSA shooters......

Baby Steps!  

Edited May 11, 2023 by UFO

[Hoops]

6 hours ago, UFO said:

Well, I started this thread a year and a half ago, and things have happened. There is an advisory committee that makes recommendations for SCSA rule changes. The positions are held by serious SCSA shooters......

Baby Steps!  

Curious.  Who are the SCSA shooters on this advisory committee?  Do you know their Areas?  I usually read BOD minutes and I don’t recall reading where this committee was established.  Do you know if they were set up to receive member comments/questions?

 

thanks

[joseywales]

2 hours ago, Hoops said:

Curious.  Who are the SCSA shooters on this advisory committee?  Do you know their Areas?  I usually read BOD minutes and I don’t recall reading where this committee was established.  Do you know if they were set up to receive member comments/questions?

 

thanks

Hoops, 

 

Here's the only place that I've heard of it - about 47:14 on this episode of the HuntersHDGold youtube channel... 

 

 

[GigG]

You might want to listen to the 1st May episode of the NROI podcast.  They talk about this.

[Hoops]

thanks guys.  I’ll listen to both