lcarr Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I just noticed that .357 SIG is allowed to be major in Single-Stack now. Does that mean that .38 Super can be major now, too (if only loaded to 8 rounds)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, lcarr said: I just noticed that .357 SIG is allowed to be major in Single-Stack now. Does that mean that .38 Super can be major now, too (if only loaded to 8 rounds)? No. 40 caliber and up with an exception for 356 SIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotx1 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 This makes no sense to me. The .357 SIG is allowed presumably because it's loaded hot. The .38 super can safely be loaded just as hot, if people are getting chronoed why exclude the .38 super? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Because that’s a slippery slope the USPSA doesn’t want to go down if they allowed 38 super scored major in SS, then next will be major 9, after that both allowed scored major in limited also in SS, major is limited to 8 rounds, so 357 sig doesn’t have a competitive capacity advantage over any other round scored major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 357 sig exemption came about because it uses a 40 case, so no capacity advantage to help/cater/ include folks that cant legally , or its much harder to legally own anything larger than 9mm guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Joe4d said: 357 sig exemption came about because it uses a 40 case, so no capacity advantage to help/cater/ include folks that cant legally , or its much harder to legally own anything larger than 9mm guns in a 1911 you can get 10 rounds of .40 or .357 sig in a mag, just like 9mm and 38 super So if the exemption is to help people that can't legally own guns larger than 9mm why not allow super to be scored major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 14 hours ago, Foxtrotx1 said: This makes no sense to me. The .357 SIG is allowed presumably because it's loaded hot. The .38 super can safely be loaded just as hot, if people are getting chronoed why exclude the .38 super? 38 super is a low pressure round, .357 sig is a high pressure round When is the last time you saw 357 sig at a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DirkD said: in a 1911 you can get 10 rounds of .40 or .357 sig in a mag, just like 9mm and 38 super So if the exemption is to help people that can't legally own guns larger than 9mm why not allow super to be scored major? basically the rule is a carry over from IPSC standard and USPSA Limited for the reasons I mentioned. In a more fre area 357 sig is a pain for a reloader. hEck even for a ammo buyer as it is expensive Single stack or classic, was specifically created because lots of folks LOVE the 1911 and it isnt competitive anymore unless it is in a protected division. I have NO clue why USPSA allowed this minor/major nonsense. Its a 1911 45 division,,, should have just made it that. Edited February 1, 2021 by Joe4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Joe4d said: basically the rule is a carry over from IPSC standard and USPSA Limited for the reasons I mentioned. In a more fre area 357 sig is a pain for a reloader. hEck even for a ammo buyer as it is expensive Single stack or classic, was specifically created because lots of folks LOVE the 1911 and it isnt competitive anymore unless it is in a protected division. I have NO clue why USPSA allowed this minor/major nonsense. Its a 1911 45 division,,, should have just made it that. Major and Minor scoring is fine in single stack, nothing wrong with it, not sure why they allowed .357 sig in as major, but uspsa has a way of allowing a lot of stupid changes in the divisions. a 2011 is now a single stack and production isn't an off the shelf gun anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 58 minutes ago, Joe4d said: basically the rule is a carry over from IPSC standard and USPSA Limited for the reasons I mentioned. In a more fre area 357 sig is a pain for a reloader. hEck even for a ammo buyer as it is expensive Single stack or classic, was specifically created because lots of folks LOVE the 1911 and it isnt competitive anymore unless it is in a protected division. I have NO clue why USPSA allowed this minor/major nonsense. Its a 1911 45 division,,, should have just made it that. Joe it's a shame you don't understand why, since I've explained my thought process on numerous occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Gary Stevens said: Joe it's a shame you don't understand why, since I've explained my thought process on numerous occasions. why did they allow 357 sig but not 38 super to be scored as major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaJim Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Don't know if there is an advantage to shooting either 9Maj, 357sig or 38s vs 40 or 45. Never shot a 1911 using 38s loaded major...(no Comp).... Couldn't be that much fun. As far as money 9'd be the cheapest rd, then 40 (may be a toss up) then 45 then either of the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, DirkD said: why did they allow 357 sig but not 38 super to be scored as major? One results in a total capacity change. The other does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, DirkD said: why did they allow 357 sig but not 38 super to be scored as major? who the hell cares? If you're serious about shooting, buy a gun that fits the division you want to shoot. don't try to change all the rules to fit your favorite gun. I honestly don't care if you shoot 8 round 38 super major, but I think you'd be dumb to do so. I'm guessing the other 15 guys that still shoot singlestack would agree. having said that, I know some LE agencies carry 357 sig. it makes sense to me to let those folks shoot their duty guns in competition, but in all the years I've been working matches, I've picked up exactly zero 357 sig brass, so I'm not sure it's really a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 It is a thing if you're in Australia where the biggest caliber they can have is .357 Sig. Otherwise, it's a non-issue. Nobody does it and few care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, shred said: It is a thing if you're in Australia where the biggest caliber they can have is .357 Sig. Otherwise, it's a non-issue. Nobody does it and few care. How many people in Australia are shooting uspsa matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkD Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, motosapiens said: who the hell cares? If you're serious about shooting, buy a gun that fits the division you want to shoot. don't try to change all the rules to fit your favorite gun. I honestly don't care if you shoot 8 round 38 super major, but I think you'd be dumb to do so. I'm guessing the other 15 guys that still shoot singlestack would agree. having said that, I know some LE agencies carry 357 sig. it makes sense to me to let those folks shoot their duty guns in competition, but in all the years I've been working matches, I've picked up exactly zero 357 sig brass, so I'm not sure it's really a thing. Who cares about 357 sig? Another stupid uspsa rule that makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 ^^ it only makes no sense to noobs who don't want to think about it or know about the history of these decisions. It makes pretty good sense to experienced competitors.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: ^^ it only makes no sense to noobs who don't want to think about it or know about the history of these decisions. It makes pretty good sense to experienced competitors.... Yup. Gary literally gave the exact reason why, and he should know. But...many people aren't reading it, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 15 hours ago, Gary Stevens said: One results in a total capacity change. The other does not. this is a Single stack thread,,, capacity is set by rule and powerfactor, not by actual capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoeShooting Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 i think they should allow 38 s and 9 major for SS major. limit it to 8 rounds and make them chrono the rounds. i shot 38 super in open for a year and you can load a 38s hotter than a 45. same with 9 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, AverageJoeShooting said: i shot 38 super in open for a year and you can load a 38s hotter than a 45. same with 9 major. I can EASILY load a .45 to over a 200 PF. I don't want to be on the same range with you trying that in 38 Super or worse, 9 Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 While you likely cannot make 200PF in 38S or 9, you can safely make major and stay under SAAMI max specs, and under .357 Sig pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 19 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said: i think they should allow 38 s and 9 major for SS major. limit it to 8 rounds and make them chrono the rounds. i shot 38 super in open for a year and you can load a 38s hotter than a 45. same with 9 major. LMAO,,,, bring your 38 or 9mm to a bowling pin match and let me know how that 210 pf ammo is working. But back to the topic, yeh rule isnt all that rational. Thats ok though. Its basically a carryover from IPSC standard that got copied and pasted into classic,, then into USPSA Single stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 This thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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