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Magnet on belt in Production


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This is a weird one.  I was think that instead of keeping my first mag (11 rounder) in my pocket and pulling it out at LAMR, can you have a magnet on your belt for that mag in particular as long as you do not use it during the stage?  Or is having it there in any capacity a no no?  I would think it would be convenient just to have one on the front of your belt, slap it on there before you walk up to the line.

 

Obviously this is just a convenience thing, and whether or not you are allowed to do it has no affect on how you shoot.  The idea just popped into my head so I thought I would bounce it off the wonderfully smart people on this forum.....  😀

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You could have one as long as you didn't use it between make ready and range is clear. Any time between that your going to open. 

 

Not worth the risk imo

 

Appendix d4 20 covers magnets

Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means.

 

6.2.5.1 moves your to open for not following the above

 

However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared handgun Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. If a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements for PCC or Open Division during the course of fire, he will shoot for no scores. 

Edited by Kraj
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20 minutes ago, mniels said:

This is a weird one.  I was think that instead of keeping my first mag (11 rounder) in my pocket and pulling it out at LAMR, can you have a magnet on your belt for that mag in particular as long as you do not use it during the stage?  Or is having it there in any capacity a no no?  I would think it would be convenient just to have one on the front of your belt, slap it on there before you walk up to the line.

 

Obviously this is just a convenience thing, and whether or not you are allowed to do it has no affect on how you shoot.  The idea just popped into my head so I thought I would bounce it off the wonderfully smart people on this forum.....  😀

https://nroi.org/rules-qa/magnet-use-in-co-prod-ss/

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1 hour ago, mniels said:

This is a weird one.  I was think that instead of keeping my first mag (11 rounder) in my pocket and pulling it out at LAMR, can you have a magnet on your belt for that mag in particular as long as you do not use it during the stage?  Or is having it there in any capacity a no no?  I would think it would be convenient just to have one on the front of your belt, slap it on there before you walk up to the line.

 

Obviously this is just a convenience thing, and whether or not you are allowed to do it has no affect on how you shoot.  The idea just popped into my head so I thought I would bounce it off the wonderfully smart people on this forum.....  😀

No, you cannot

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The problem is that the "course of fire" begins at "make ready" and not when you start shooting. If you have it on the magnet when you get the "make ready" you are having it on the magnet during the course of fire... 

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There's a special exception (5.2.4.1) for magazines in apparel pockets in location-restricted divisions which says that you can use them prior to the start signal, which is where the confusion comes from. There's no similar allowance for magnets.

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On 10/27/2020 at 7:12 PM, mniels said:

I would think it would be convenient just to have one on the front of your belt, slap it on there before you walk up to the line.

 

If the magnet is there - mag or not - during the course of fire, you move to open if the magnet is in front of the point of the hip.

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On 10/29/2020 at 8:34 AM, mreed911 said:

 

If the magnet is there - mag or not - during the course of fire, you move to open if the magnet is in front of the point of the hip.

The only reference for magnets I have is in the appendices and the verbiage is:

  • Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means.

That does not mean that the magnet cannot be there, only that the magazines cannot be used to retain a magazine. What rule are you looking at? 

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11 hours ago, s2000red said:

IVC, it is addressed in Appendix E and the penalty is 6.2.5.1.

Sure, but that's not magnet-specific. It's about the location of the gear. A magnet might not be a "magazine pouch" - it could be a man bun hair clip holder...

 

Agreed otherwise, I thought he was singling out magnets as being specially addressed...

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Having issued a bump to open for this (by calling the RM, of course), the excuse was "my buddy gave me this magnet and told me to use it."

 

"Your buddy just bumped you to open, was he shooting Production too?"

 

"Yeah..."

 

"Was he wearing a magnet?"

 

"No..."

 

"Sounds like he didn't want the competition.  :)"

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20 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

Having issued a bump to open for this (by calling the RM, of course), the excuse was "my buddy gave me this magnet and told me to use it."

Just for the sake of discussion, what would happen if the shooter covered the pouch and the magazine the way they cover, e.g., traffic lights when they are out of order? 

 

The key here is that there can be no *equipment* in front of the hip bones and it would be pretty common sense not to consider it "equipment" if it is covered and decommissioned. And I'm not asking just to be difficult, but there is a practical reason - one of my rigs is set up for various local fun matches and it has a DAA pouch with magnet in front, but the rest of the setup is pure Production. If I were to lend it to someone to shoot production, I wouldn't want to mess with taking the pouch off if at all possible. 

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6 minutes ago, IVC said:

Just for the sake of discussion, what would happen if the shooter covered the pouch and the magazine the way they cover, e.g., traffic lights when they are out of order? 

 

The key here is that there can be no *equipment* in front of the hip bones and it would be pretty common sense not to consider it "equipment" if it is covered and decommissioned. And I'm not asking just to be difficult, but there is a practical reason - one of my rigs is set up for various local fun matches and it has a DAA pouch with magnet in front, but the rest of the setup is pure Production. If I were to lend it to someone to shoot production, I wouldn't want to mess with taking the pouch off if at all possible. 

 

I honestly don't know.  If it weren't usable, I wouldn't consider it a problem, but I guess you could ask the same about mag pouches forward of the hip bone that had "inserts" in them to make them unusable, too.


That's probably a good question to send to DNROI, especially since the NROI blog has a post about equipment positions and magnets in production, specifically.

 

I don't think I would personally risk having equipment in the wrong place for a match, but I get where you're coming from.

 

It's also why I like deferring to an RM.

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I carry a magazine on a magnet at my 6 o'clock. I only ever use that mag to stoke my gun with a round when I make ready. The only reason I carry it there is because its a PITA to try to fish it out of a pocket. I'll typically have that magazine out in my hand when I get to the line before I'm told to "Load and make ready." My first mag and every mag during the course of fire comes out of a pouch. I've never had an RO say anything, but I know I'm playing with fire. I also typically shoot small local matches so I'm sure most of the RO's either don't know, don't even notice or just let it slide...

Edited by AmosM223
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On 11/7/2020 at 8:37 PM, AmosM223 said:

I carry a magazine on a magnet at my 6 o'clock. I only ever use that mag to stoke my gun with a round when I make ready. The only reason I carry it there is because its a PITA to try to fish it out of a pocket. I'll typically have that magazine out in my hand when I get to the line before I'm told to "Load and make ready." My first mag and every mag during the course of fire comes out of a pouch. I've never had an RO say anything, but I know I'm playing with fire. I also typically shoot small local matches so I'm sure most of the RO's either don't know, don't even notice or just let it slide...

If I were your RO at a local match I'd let it slide too, but I'd also warn you about having it for anything larger.

I wish we could use a magnet for make ready and show clear in the lo-cap divisions, but the rules aren't written that way. I keep an extra sixth mag pouch at about 5 o'clock on my belt for the barney mag. It doubles as a hanger for my muffs.

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3 minutes ago, belus said:

If I were your RO at a local match I'd let it slide too, but I'd also warn you about having it for anything larger.

 

You're not doing anyone a favor by doing this.  Educate them, have them remove the magnet, tell them why, and enforce the rules.  Level 1 matches are a great place for new competitors to learn the rules and don't require a "surprise bump to open" to do it.  Just talk to your competitors, especially in your new shooter briefings.  You're doing those, right?

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