WHAT CAUSED THIS?! Blew Up My X5 Legion...

[Solsand]

6 minutes ago, AHI said:

it s a over charge  fired in a unsupported chamber. The more times you stop The more likely you will f up.

at some point you have to trust your equipment (press) if you can not trust it ,you need different equipment.

FYI Symtect is loaded with sport pistol powder. It takes up more space in the case so its easier to see. if you have no powder 

or to much with out stopping constantly.

Agreed. In fact I just touched on that in my last reply a few seconds ago. FYI the chamber in this pistol is fully supported. Not so with my OG base X5. Oddly enough, I just bough 2lbs of Sport Pistol for when I do start back up. I’m overwhelmed by everyone’s support and feedback. I really appreciate it because I know the original post was too long...

[Solsand]

18 minutes ago, lll Otto lll said:

Operator error.  Stuff happens.  You''ll do better next time.

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/8900036

Thanks for the link. Bought one last nite from SGP for $205 w/ free shipping. I tore I completely down, FCU and all and was surprised to find no other damage...

[madmosche]

Yep I agree with the folks above, looks like it could be an OOB discharge very similar results to this example: https://www.facebook.com/CopperasCovePistolClub/posts/2882490415124018

Might not be your reloads that caused it.

[ddc]

23 minutes ago, Solsand said:

... I was pulling cases, dumping powder to weigh/measure, dumping back in to the case and then setting it back into the shell plate, it’s obvious that that was probably a bad idea...

 

Yes I believe there is a good chance that with all that starting and stopping you inadvertently missed advancing the shell plate one time. It only takes one.

(Hopefully it was only once.)

[Solsand]

4 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Yes I believe there is a good chance that with all that starting and stopping you inadvertently missed advancing the shell plate one time. It only takes one.

(Hopefully it was only once.)

Yes sir I’m leaning towards that but taking everything into consideration. I “deserve” to spend the next several days pulling Bullets but, if a double charge was the culprit, law of averages says I should find another in the several hundred rounds I have to pull. Actually, I’m hoping that’s what I find...

[12glocks]

I read till you got to the part about Titegroup and stopped.  I have a friend that blew a gun up with Titegroup.  I refuse to use it and I have been reloading for a long time.  Filling the case is just safer.  I used N320 for a few years but I am transitioning now to Alliant Sport Pistol.  Both are in the same burn range and much more bulky.  I load on a 650 and  use a powder check.  I don't know that it would alarm with a double charge of Titegroup.  I've probably seen 20 or so guns blown up now through the years now, a fair amount with factory ammo.  It happens for sure.  I think it makes you more vigilant.  I have a lot of very experienced friends running Titegroup (for years) but I want to build in a failure prevention strategy by not using it.  I didn't like how hot the pistol got either (I tried it).

 

[RJH]

 it wasn't the titegroup, I have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds with over 20 or years with titegroup from 9,40, ,45, 45colt, 38 spc, 357 mag, 44 spc, 44 mag, 475 linebaugh, 3030, 3006, and probably some i can't remember,.  I agree with it was taking the rounds off and on the press leading to a double charge

[Solsand]

3 minutes ago, 12glocks said:

I read till you got to the part about Titegroup and stopped.  I have a friend that blew a gun up with Titegroup.  I refuse to use it and I have been reloading for a long time.  Filling the case is just safer.  I used N320 for a few years but I am transitioning now to Alliant Sport Pistol.  Both are in the same burn range and much more bulky.  I load on a 650 and  use a powder check.  I don't know that it would alarm with a double charge of Titegroup.  I've probably seen 20 or so guns blown up now through the years now, a fair amount with factory ammo.  It happens for sure.  I think it makes you more vigilant.  I have a lot of very experienced friends running Titegroup (for years) but I want to build in a failure prevention strategy by not using it.  I didn't like how hot the pistol got either (I tried it).

 

Understood. 3.0gr is SO LITTLE VOLUME. In fact, when I dropped and measured the first few charges I thought for sure my scale was off. So I bought two more! You know the rest. FYI I jut ordered 2lbs of Sport Pistol and if I DO decide to use up the last 3 lbs of Titegroup I will only do it one case at a time, one station at a time. Or I may just give to my buddy who recommended it. He evidently had more faith in me than I’ve proven worthy of.

[Aggrofish]

I’m not pro pro like a lot of the guys on this board, but I have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds. IMO that is a double charge. Do yourself a favor OP and get a progressive along with one of these, it’s cheap piece of mind:

[Intheshaw1]

I had an OOB in an XDm years ago with factory ammo in a 40. Scared the life out of me but had a gunsmith give it a look and it seemed fine.

 

The side of the casing right above the head blew out and the extractor pulled off the head and left the rest of the casing in the chamber. Years later the frame of the XDm cracked, SA said it was likely due to the OOB weakening the grip and eventually cracking.

 

I couldn't imagine having a double charge or OOB like that, hopefully no major injuries from it and a new respect for reloading. I just got into reloading myself using a 550 and have so far used only 231 and sport pistol. I actually double charged a case so I could see what one looks like but with those powders it's pretty much to the top of the case and hard to miss.

[Solsand]

16 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I had an OOB in an XDm years ago with factory ammo in a 40. Scared the life out of me but had a gunsmith give it a look and it seemed fine.

 

The side of the casing right above the head blew out and the extractor pulled off the head and left the rest of the casing in the chamber. Years later the frame of the XDm cracked, SA said it was likely due to the OOB weakening the grip and eventually cracking.

 

I couldn't imagine having a double charge or OOB like that, hopefully no major injuries from it and a new respect for reloading. I just got into reloading myself using a 550 and have so far used only 231 and sport pistol. I actually double charged a case so I could see what one looks like but with those powders it's pretty much to the top of the case and hard to miss.

This^^  Definitely scared the life out of me. And I’m thinking had it not been for the tungsten- infused grip I might have had some injuries. But nothing more than some burned powder on my hands. Very blessed.

[Solsand]

So, since there is about a 50/50 split on OOB vs double-charge, for the sake of argument let’s say it was an out-of-battery discharge. I’ve seen the photos and videos out there — some claiming to be from the P320 and it’s variants and some while using handloads while others were with factory ammo — what exactly is the root cause of an OOB discharge? And it’s not just P320’s, it’s with Glocks and Springfields poly’s but also some CZ’s and other metal frame guns. The chamber in the barrel of my X5 Legion is fully supported so what exactly are some of the contributing factors that result in an OOB discharge? I’ve been shooting for 50 years and have never seen a pistol or rifle blow up much less have it happen to me, but I’m have absolutely no clue. ??

[dansedgli]

Check if your gun can fire out of battery.

Pull the slide back and slowly release it until the striker goes off. Is the barrel locked into the slide at this point or not? If its locked up, it can't be out of battery ignition. 

 

I think OOB gets thrown around too liberally on here.

 

IMO if it was out of battery the case head wouldn't be missing, you'd just have the sides of the case blown out. My money is on double charge. 

[Farmer]

First thing, Glad to hear you didn’t get hurt. My XDM will drop the striker with the slide pulled back a fair amount but won’t fire a round. I tried it with just a primed case and it has to be in full battery to fire. Not saying others won’t though. Instead of pulling all those loads just weight them whole to sort of speed things along. You will find the heavy ones pretty quick then you can pull them and check. I’ve used TG in my 45 colt and it works good but didn’t really like it in the 9mm. Even during load testing when every one is weighed exactly I would get rounds that seemed hotter than the rest even with a mid load.  It may not be a double charge but even 1 1/2 could do that. Saw a double charge in a Ruger Super Blackhawk that removed 3 chambers because it detonated those rounds, buckled the top strap and sent the scope into orbit. That was with 231. 

[lll Otto lll]

6 hours ago, Solsand said:

Thanks for the link. Bought one last nite from SGP for $205 w/ free shipping. I tore I completely down, FCU and all and was surprised to find no other damage...

I checked SGP  last nite too and they were $245 with a waiting list....you got lucky I guess.   https://www.smallgunparts.com/Sig-X5-Legion-Grip-Mod-Gray

[gerritm]

When I started reloading a few years ago I went the same way with loading machines. Started on Lee 4-hole turret press with Titegroup to learn and then went to the top of the line Lee progressive Pro loader with all the goodies, including primer feed,shell feeder, & bullet feeder. When it worked it was great, but I was always tinkering with it to keep it running. Very easy to miss advancing the case when it was constantly stopping and me getting distracted fixing something. I got rid of it when I suspected a double charge and weighed about 100 rounds and pulled a bunch to double check. Never did find the double, & hated not knowing, but decided to go with a Dillon 650 with a powder check and have never looked back. Still using a 650 with Titegroup and probably 100K rounds later with no issues. Very difficult, not impossible, to double charge with a 650/750 especially with the powder check.

 

gerritm

[12glocks]

10 hours ago, Solsand said:

Understood. 3.0gr is SO LITTLE VOLUME. In fact, when I dropped and measured the first few charges I thought for sure my scale was off. So I bought two more! You know the rest. FYI I jut ordered 2lbs of Sport Pistol and if I DO decide to use up the last 3 lbs of Titegroup I will only do it one case at a time, one station at a time. Or I may just give to my buddy who recommended it. He evidently had more faith in me than I’ve proven worthy of.

I am not judging either.  There is a Titegroup debate from time to time and I know people will disagree.  I am glad you found some Sport Pistol, things are a little lean again.

[dmshozer1]

6 hours ago, Farmer said:

First thing, Glad to hear you didn’t get hurt. My XDM will drop the striker with the slide pulled back a fair amount but won’t fire a round. I tried it with just a primed case and it has to be in full battery to fire. Not saying others won’t though. Instead of pulling all those loads just weight them whole to sort of speed things along. You will find the heavy ones pretty quick then you can pull them and check. I’ve used TG in my 45 colt and it works good but didn’t really like it in the 9mm. Even during load testing when every one is weighed exactly I would get rounds that seemed hotter than the rest even with a mid load.  It may not be a double charge but even 1 1/2 could do that. Saw a double charge in a Ruger Super Blackhawk that removed 3 chambers because it detonated those rounds, buckled the top strap and sent the scope into orbit. That was with 231. 

Sorry to say but weighing a loaded round will not work,

Even brass with the same head stamp will weigh as much as 5 grains different from each other.

Check it out.

[Solsand]

5 hours ago, lll Otto lll said:

I checked SGP  last nite too and they were $245 with a waiting list....you got lucky I guess.   https://www.smallgunparts.com/Sig-X5-Legion-Grip-Mod-Gray

Yes sir, but I bought the one without the grip weight and magwell, in stock.

 

[Solsand]

7 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

Sorry to say but weighing a loaded round will not work,

Even brass with the same head stamp will weigh as much as 5 grains different from each other.

Check it out.

You are correct sir. I tried that and can say for certain you are right. I was surprised in a way but like I said I’m new to all of it.

[AHI]

can you post a picture of the breach end of your barrel.?

 

[Edwards30]

I don’t have anything informative to add, but after something like this should the FCU be evaluated?

[Solsand]

31 minutes ago, Edwards30 said:

I don’t have anything informative to add, but after something like this should the FCU be evaluated?

Yes sir thanks for the advice. First thing I did. I broke it down to the bare metal frame. Everything looks good and functions fine, as far as I can see.

[Solsand]

44 minutes ago, AHI said:

can you post a picture of the breach end of your barrel.?

 

Yes sir here you go @AHI

[Solsand]

9 hours ago, dansedgli said:

Check if your gun can fire out of battery.

Pull the slide back and slowly release it until the striker goes off. Is the barrel locked into the slide at this point or not? If its locked up, it can't be out of battery ignition. 

 

I think OOB gets thrown around too liberally on here.

 

IMO if it was out of battery the case head wouldn't be missing, you'd just have the sides of the case blown out. My money is on double charge. 

@dansedgli To be clear, I'm assuming that I'm pulling the trigger while easing the slide forward, as in the video that someone posted on here earlier correct? 

 

By the way, I've seen several of your videos running the X5's in matches and you ran those things like scalded dogs. But I understand and respect your opinion to switch back to CZ. Truth be told it probably wouldn't matter what you use the way you shoot...