gsteve, what the heck am I doing wrong? (with target pictures)

[ysrracer]

I'm shooting my revolver double action at 10 yards.

My drill is, draw, fire two (double crap the target) on the the first target, then preform a FIVE SECOND reload, and double crap the second target.

I'm not sure why I have such a big spread in my first target verses my second one? Thoughts?

[ysrracer]

[ysrracer]

Yes, I realize my targets are mostly tape at this point. What am I, Rockefeller?

[Racinready300ex]

Just a guess, do you get a good grip on the draw? If your grip is off a little your hits will suffer. Then you might fix your grip during the reload and not even realize it.

[revoman]

Are you gripping with your strong hand or weak hand? I find that if I grip with my weak hand my groups are smaller than if I grip with both strong and weak at the same time. Also if I only grip with my strong hand and just place my weak hand over my strong hand my groups are still larger. 
This works for me. 

[Bill Sahlberg]

Right handers pull low & to the left shooting double action. Try shootong higher & to the right fast double action to compensate....

[revoman]

1 hour ago, Bill Sahlberg said:

Right handers pull low & to the left shooting double action. Try shootong higher & to the right fast double action to compensate....

If you are doing this then you are jerking the trigger instead of pulling. 

[Toolguy]

4 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I'm shooting my revolver double action at 10 yards.

My drill is, draw, fire two (double crap the target) on the the first target, then preform a FIVE SECOND reload, and double crap the second target.

I'm not sure why I have such a big spread in my first target verses my second one? Thoughts?

 

Maybe you should "double tap" instead of "double crap" your targets............. You are probably looking at the target instead of the sights.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Toolguy

[NoSteel]

Do the same routine but with a much slower cadence.  Once you get your groups where you want start to speed up until they open up.  This should help determine where your loosing control..  Running it slower will allow you to prep the hammer before letting it drop.  Being double action and not knowing what your trigger pull is like I'm guessing your pulling the muzzle quite a bit thrust trigger pull..  For me,  I found gripping with my weak hand thumb over strong hand thumb behind hammer helps allot (Bobbed Hammer)..

[pskys2]

Might be you are trying to muscle the gun on the first shot, then smooth out as you proceed.  Not a flinch more of a timing issue.

 

Try doing 1 shot draws until you get a good group, then draw & take 2 shots going into that same group.  At some point you should see what you're doing wrong.  The trick is doing it Right enough times that it becomes muscle memory and you can repeat it under stress.

[ysrracer]

4 hours ago, Toolguy said:

You are probably looking at the target instead of the sights

 

Probably. I'm a sporting clays shotgun shooter. With shotguns we take off the beads, and look at the target with both eyes open.

 

Do you guys shoot revos with both eyes open?

 

With shotguns it's:

 

When you play baseball, do you look at the bat or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play golf, do you look at the club head or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play tennis, do you look at the racket or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you merge onto the freeway, do you look at the hood of your car or where you want to go ? 1 eye or 2?

Are you starting to see a pattern here?

Look at your target and your brain will do the rest. Yes, I know, it’s not for everybody, but give it a try for a few months.

Now onto something else. After you hit the ball with the (bat, club, racket) do you stop dead in your tracks, or do you follow thru?

You follow thru.

Same thing in sporting clays, if you stop the gun, you probably shot behind the target.

Oh, I'm right handed and right eye dominant. Since we all have two eyes and they're next to each other you're going to see two images of the barrel. It's called parallax.

 

[ysrracer]

4 hours ago, Toolguy said:

 

Maybe you should "double tap" instead of "double crap" your targets............. You are probably looking at the target instead of the sights.

 

I be cappin, I be rappin, I be double tappin

[Dr. Phil]

7 hours ago, ysrracer said:

  11 hours ago, Toolguy said:

 

Maybe you should "double tap" instead of "double crap" your targets............. You are probably looking at the target instead of the sights.

This was my thought also.

Henry Ford said, "Whether you think you can or can't, you're right"

I think the worst thing we can do is doubt our abilities, training, mindset, etc. How would you shoot if before every run you said to yourself, "Now you suck. So don't miss!"  Probably (for sure) awful. You rise (or fall) to the level of your own expectations first.

Henry also said, "Your best friend is the one that tells you the truth."

I tell my wife that some things I can do now took me a thousand rounds to learn! Why not try working on "that thing" till you find your answer? And why not honestly access your training and abilities? You can do right now what a small percentage of shooters can do! Run with it!

Hope to shoot together someday, bro.

 

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, Bill Sahlberg said:

Right handers pull low & to the left shooting double action. Try shootong higher & to the right fast double action to compensate....

 

What ever you do, don't do this. 

[Toolguy]

Watch what the sights are doing in relationship to each other as you are making the shot. The sights have to be correctly lined up together THROUGH the shot in order to make the bullet go where you want it to. Hold still till the bullet is on the target. Don't try to counteract the recoil, just hold still.

 

You only have control of the bullet out to the end of the barrel. Therefore, you have to know and control what the gun is doing in your hands. Whatever is downrange is irrelevant.

[PatJones]

On the draw, is the gun firing at the moment you get to full extension? If so, you're probably firing with less than ideal sight alignment. Do you snap the trigger when practicing the draw in dry fire?

As to front sight focus, on virtually all of the shots we see in a typical match you do not need a hard front sight focus. You can aim with slightly blurry sights. Not only does this make for faster target transitions, it's a lot easier to achieve after 45.

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[MikeBurgess]

10 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

Probably. I'm a sporting clays shotgun shooter. With shotguns we take off the beads, and look at the target with both eyes open.

 

Do you guys shoot revos with both eyes open?

 

With shotguns it's:

 

When you play baseball, do you look at the bat or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play golf, do you look at the club head or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play tennis, do you look at the racket or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you merge onto the freeway, do you look at the hood of your car or where you want to go ? 1 eye or 2?

Are you starting to see a pattern here?

Look at your target and your brain will do the rest. Yes, I know, it’s not for everybody, but give it a try for a few months.

Now onto something else. After you hit the ball with the (bat, club, racket) do you stop dead in your tracks, or do you follow thru?

You follow thru.

Same thing in sporting clays, if you stop the gun, you probably shot behind the target.

Oh, I'm right handed and right eye dominant. Since we all have two eyes and they're next to each other you're going to see two images of the barrel. It's called parallax.

 

there are vary good shooters that shoot both sight focused and target focused, I have tried both ways and for me, currently mostly sight focused has a slight advantage on harder targets at speed, closer shots are target focused, where the line between hard and easy is, is different for everyone, last I heard Stoeger is shooting 100% target focused and doing pretty well. 

 

1 or 2 eyes open, you will find in the action sports most of the top competitors shoot both eyes open, the reasoning tends to be our accuracy standards are pretty low but our speed needs to be pretty fast and you can move and make big transitions easier with both eyes open.  That said for some people learning to see only 1 sight picture with both eyes open can be very hard for some people, it took me a couple years of putting tape over my non dominate eye (small piece of tape positioned so it blocked the gun in a normal firing position but left the rest of my field of view open) to be able to shoot both open and ignore the second image, but yes you can learn to have both eyes open and not see 2 guns or targets and not have the parallax issues you mention. 

 

Follow through is a bit more tricky in our games, for most targets you should be transitioning the gun during recoil, basically if the gun comes down from recoil to point at a target you don't need to shoot again you are wasting time, there are some exceptions to this for extremely hard targets but they are just that exceptions. 

 

 

[MWP]

This seems like a lot of posting just to tell someone he’s not looking at the sights...

[alecmc]

 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Bill Sahlberg said:

Right handers pull low & to the left shooting double action. Try shootong higher & to the right fast double action to compensate....

 

 

Do. Not. Do. This.

[MikeBurgess]

This seems like a lot of posting just to tell someone he’s not looking at the sights...

Guilty
Although I have been know to look at the sights and still shoot groups like above, going yep that's a C, that's a C on the other side, etc.

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[MikeyScuba]

3 hours ago, MWP said:

This seems like a lot of posting just to tell someone he’s not looking at the sights...

But that’s so... s-l-o-w......

[PatJones]

This seems like a lot of posting just to tell someone he’s not looking at the sights...

Likely not the real problem. More likely a double action on the draw problem. The second target is better.

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[MikeBurgess]

8 hours ago, PatJones said:

Likely not the real problem. More likely a double action on the draw problem. The second target is better.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

As opposed to every other shot being double action as well? 

Edited March 11, 2020 by MikeBurgess
spelling

[old558]

try putting a dot or something in the middle of target and see if that helps.

[ysrracer]

Ok, as I mentioned I'm a pretty serious sporting clays shooter. In that sport we look at the target, and NEVER at the sights (beads).

 

On the first target I find myself looking at the target, and "seeing" the sights.

 

Today I forced myself to look at the front sight, and it worked a little better.

 

 My times are 

 

draw, first shot 2.20

seconds shot .35

reload, third shot 4.5

fourth shot .35

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by ysrracer