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P320 X5 Thread

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6 hours ago, AmarokTactical said:

Pfft my "homemade" grip had me at 44oz as well with the tungsten guide rod. It's really a negligible difference, I had hoped it would be significant but it's more placebo than anything. To each their own but the $800 you're suggesting someone spend on an $850 gun will not be a significant improvement. 


your comment at it's most basic flies in the face of physics.  

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To me it's more a comment that a homemade job with $X amount in material that gets you to 44 oz., if done correctly will potentially not shoot any worse than a $850 job that gets you to 44 oz. So spending $850 on an $800 gun is not needed if you have the skills an patience to do it yourself. If not, then sure, pay the freight and get the best professional job money can buy.

 

At the highest levels of competition, every fraction of ounce advantage is money well spent. For others, maybe they should spend they money on ammo and training before they worry about how much their gun weighs, what color their holster is, or if they have a 1 pound trigger, etc.

 

Each to his own. 

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Well said Sean! An old saying from my baseball playing days about Mickey Mantle & Hank Aaron : "what's meat for Mickey is poison for Hank". Same applies here I s'pose......

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Finally shot a match with the X5 in production, and it is quickly growing on me.  It's not quite as nice as a full steel gun obviously, but it performed admirably.  I put 400 rounds through it the day before and it really helped break the gun in.

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13 minutes ago, bluedevil008 said:

Anyone know of somewhere with a safety lifter spring in stock?  Seems I lost mine during disassembly.

 

My gun (May production) did not come with it. When was your gun produced?

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1 minute ago, jaep1911 said:

 

My gun (May production) did not come with it. When was your gun produced?

It's an early production X5 with upgrade.

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22 minutes ago, bluedevil008 said:

Anyone know of somewhere with a safety lifter spring in stock?  Seems I lost mine during disassembly.

One of my Xfives didn’t have one in either, but Sig sent me one

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5 minutes ago, RH45 said:

One of my Xfives didn’t have one in either, but Sig sent me one

 

Uhhh, so I guess they aren't needed?  haha I have put probably 800 rounds through it and it functions fine.

 

For what it's worth I don't remember seeing it when I disassembled, I stopped after pulling out the sear and didn't take out the housing so I assumed it just stayed in there (not knowing how it worked or what it was) but it makes more sense now that it wasn't even in there in the first place.

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12 minutes ago, RH45 said:

One of my Xfives didn’t have one in either, but Sig sent me one

 that worries me now :(

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I was told Sig discontinued using the lifter spring. I’ve had some with and some without it. All function fine. 

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Good to know.  I put it back together and seems to function fine dry-fire wise.   

 

Side note,  I installed the PELT and polished the sear, FCU housing, and trigger bar.  I reassembled and probably chopped 1.5-2 pounds off the pull with less travel it seems, BUT the reset is VERY choppy and doesn't seem to reset with as much force.  It feels like the trigger return spring is rusted or something.  Any idea on what is going on?

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I polished the FCU and the trigger bar where they contact each other. I also installed the complete Gray Guns Competition kit - sear, springs and trigger. My trigger pull force was down to 2.1 lbs.  I did not like that because both the trigger release and reset were mushy.

 

I replaced the trigger bar spring with the OEM one that came in the pistol. That raised the trigger pull to 2 lb. 5 oz. but the trigger action was still not as crisp as I need. So I next put an old OEM SIG Trigger Bar Spring that I purchased as a Certified Armorer spare parts kit right when the P320 was released. I installed that TRS because it was notably stiffer than the GG TRS and the OEM spring that came in my X5 that was built in mid 2018. That did what I needed - it made the trigger pull, release and rest crisp enough while only raising the trigger pull to 2 lb. 7 oz.  

Regarding a soft or indistinct reset:

> Do not lubricate the action parts inside the sear housing. They are all plated to increase lubricity and fly against conventional practice of needing lubrication.  

> You can also try higher power sear and trigger bar springs.

 

Regarding a choppy reset: 

> As a SIG P320 Armorer, it is always best for me to see and hear and feel the action in order to properly diagnose it via observation and logic. That being understood, here is a logical approach. 

> Be certain that all parts reassembled properly and are positioned properly. There are small parts and springs that can easily be in an incorrect position when re-assembled and then in operation. 

> Be certain no parts are binding during their entire range of motion. 

> Try higher power springs. 

> Be certain all contact points outside the sear housing are properly lubricated. 

> Test the entire firing pin block system for grit and roughness. This is an often overlooked source of a bad trigger system action and feel. 

A21B7AC2-DCE4-4504-BC75-5DD5F8EAFD57.jpeg

Edited by DCSigCZ
Added photo.

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16 hours ago, DCSigCZ said:

I polished the FCU and the trigger bar where they contact each other. I also installed the complete Gray Guns Competition kit - sear, springs and trigger. My trigger pull force was down to 2.1 lbs.  I did not like that because both the trigger release and reset were mushy.

 

I replaced the trigger bar spring with the OEM one that came in the pistol. That raised the trigger pull to 2 lb. 5 oz. but the trigger action was still not as crisp as I need. So I next put an old OEM SIG Trigger Bar Spring that I purchased as a Certified Armorer spare parts kit right when the P320 was released. I installed that TRS because it was notably stiffer than the GG TRS and the OEM spring that came in my X5 that was built in mid 2018. That did what I needed - it made the trigger pull, release and rest crisp enough while only raising the trigger pull to 2 lb. 7 oz.  

Regarding a soft or indistinct reset:

> Do not lubricate the action parts inside the sear housing. They are all plated to increase lubricity and fly against conventional practice of needing lubrication.  

> You can also try higher power sear and trigger bar springs.

 

Regarding a choppy reset: 

> As a SIG P320 Armorer, it is always best for me to see and hear and feel the action in order to properly diagnose it via observation and logic. That being understood, here is a logical approach. 

> Be certain that all parts reassembled properly and are positioned properly. There are small parts and springs that can easily be in an incorrect position when re-assembled and then in operation. 

> Be certain no parts are binding during their entire range of motion. 

> Try higher power springs. 

> Be certain all contact points outside the sear housing are properly lubricated. 

> Test the entire firing pin block system for grit and roughness. This is an often overlooked source of a bad trigger system action and feel. 

A21B7AC2-DCE4-4504-BC75-5DD5F8EAFD57.jpeg

 

Fantastic information, thanks.  I did not install the full kit, just the trigger, so the trigger bar spring is still factory. I also chopped off a couple of coils from ONE of the sear springs.  This was an experiment because I had read of people removing one sear spring with success, but I didn't want to go to that length.  Could certainly be that, but the amount of spring tension and noise I feel during reset is undoubtedly coming from the trigger bar spring.  I did not lubricate anything, just added grease to the same location as it was from the factory and where Alma recommended in his disassembly video: where trigger bar meets FCU housing.

 

I'll go put a few hundreds rounds through it for function testing and see if 'breaking it in' again helps with any of it.  Long term plan has always been to get a professional trigger job done it and I don't plan on competing in production or CO very competitively.

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grayguns trigger kit install - the included  over-travel sleeve that goes over one of the pins seemed to keep the trigger from going back far enough to fire.  anyone else have this issue.  removed it and the trigger did go back far enough to fire.

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1 hour ago, davsco said:

grayguns trigger kit install - the included  over-travel sleeve that goes over one of the pins seemed to keep the trigger from going back far enough to fire.  anyone else have this issue.  removed it and the trigger did go back far enough to fire.

I had one FCU that did the same thing. I just filed a little material away from the trigger, where it contacted the sleeve 

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On 11/7/2018 at 1:56 PM, davsco said:

grayguns trigger kit install - the included  over-travel sleeve that goes over one of the pins seemed to keep the trigger from going back far enough to fire.  anyone else have this issue.  removed it and the trigger did go back far enough to fire.

 

I installed a kit that wouldn't release the striker.

 

Took it out and installed it in another X5 (which had already had a kit installed) and it worked fine.

 

Took the kit that I had un-installed from the other gun and installed it in the gun that had the problem.

 

It worked fine.

 

Contacted GG and they said there was probably just a case of tolerance stacking and the one kit and gun combination just put it over the line where it couldn't trip the sear.

 

I've had many thousands of rounds through both guns since then and no issues. Both go bang every time.

 

 

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I have read through a large portion of this thread, and there is a lot to digest here.

 

I just purchased an X5 a few days ago (I will have to wait another week or so to shoot her due to some hand surgery). I am looking to transition from LTD to CO over the next year or two, and this seems like a good choice.

 

Dry firing this gun does not give me the warm and fuzzies, that is for sure. The trigger is spongy and gritty without a real clean break. I am not a fan of striker-fired triggers as a whole, but this one feels particularly bad to me. OK, I will be blunt and say that it is atrocious and is easily the worst trigger I own by a long shot.

 

While I sit here with my hand bandaged up, I have nothing else to do but spend some money, right? So I ordered the GG competition trigger kit and their steel guide rod and a few different spring weights to try out. I wish I would have read this thread first, I would have ordered the Springer tungsten rod instead, but oh well.. The kit and the guide rod arrive next week.

 

I also ordered a 6 MOA Romeo1 against my common sense urgings (I also ordered the protective shroud). I hope this does not prove to be a mistake, but I am not sure that I trust an aluminum mounting plate to go with the DPP or the RMR. The last thing I want are the mounting screws ripping free from the soft aluminum in the middle of a match.

 

I also ordered the Talon grip tape, but it sounds like those might be a mistake as well. The gun feels really slippery in my hand, so if the tape does not work, I might have to go with Alma's silicone grit job or possibly a stipple job.

 

Will someone please assure me that the trigger pull will get better with the GG kit? I am not as worried about reducing the trigger-pull down to sub 2# levels as I am about getting a nice crisp break and reset. Is that a pipedream with a striker-fired pistol? My only other striker-fired pistol is an HK VP9, and I don't like that trigger either, but it is better than the X5, which is not saying a lot. All my other guns are hammer-fired and all of them have had trigger work done, so I know my expectations are high. Someone once told me that you don't need to love the trigger during dry fire, but only in live fire. Not sure if I agree with that, but I guess I will have to wait to see how she shoots, and then what difference the GG kit makes.

 

Fingers crossed that I made the right decision here.

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My trigger was terrible stock.  It was so heavy it maxed out my trigger pull scale.  With the GG comp kit it is between 2.5 and 3 lbs depending on where you pull it with the scale.  It is worlds better.  
That said,  the reset is not what I would like but I can (and have to) live with it.  
Coming from Open guns with 1.25lb triggers I tokk about 2k rounds for me to adapt to the SIG trigger.  

The tungsten guide rod makes a pretty significant difference over steel. 
I am a huge fan of the SSI  tungsten weighted grip and tungsten slug.  

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I also came from LTD to the X5.  With the GG kit, the trigger is reasonable.  It won’t be a 2011, but with a little practice I think you will get used to it.  It won’t be as crisp as a 2011, but again, it didn’t take long to get used to.  The reset was good.  Coming from shooting a heavy (steel grip .40), the recoil on this gun was still amazing.  I could not believe how light the recoil was.  The only problem I had with this gun was the grip was too damn small so I did ultimately sell it but it was not because of the trigger.  I might get Alma to beef up the grip and give this another try someday.  Good luck

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GG trigger kit is worth the money, It will never be a 1911/2011 but it is tolerable especially when actually shooting the gun.

GG or Springer guide rods work fine 

I personally don't care if the gun is heavy from the tungsten grip , plug etc, it's a 9, guy I know has all the heavy weight stuff and I don't split the gun any quicker.

tungsten guide rod might be worth the money as I like those in my 1911 SS major guns.

I did a Silicone Carbide grip and enlarged the back and the front of the grip by about .150 and It feels and shoots better for me (large palms med length fingers, Large hands overall)

Sig Romeo 1 6moa dot is the best I've used to date (others Delta point, Delta Point Pro, C-mores, Burris, Vortex etc) like the 6moa Sig it is bright enough I usually turn it down outside. IT's the only red dot I don't run at max all the time outdoors.  Great on steel in the bright sun also.

the x-5 is a cool platform and I sold at tanfo stock 2 for it and glad I did.  

But like most things in this game it's real personal.

Good fortune with your x-5 and hand surgery recovery

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10 minutes ago, jcc7x7 said:

Sig Romeo 1 6moa dot is the best I've used to date (others Delta point, Delta Point Pro, C-mores, Burris, Vortex etc) like the 6moa Sig it is bright enough I usually turn it down outside. IT's the only red dot I don't run at max all the time outdoors.  Great on steel in the bright sun also.

 

 

I second this. IMO the 6moa is also nicer than the Romeo1 3moa with the extra levels of brightness adjustment. I keep my 6moa on brightness level 4 of 10 for almost every outdoor match I am at. 

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I moved from a Walther PPQ Q5 with an Apex trigger and spring kit, which was as awesome as the one on my 1911. The factory trigger on my X-five was shocking as you described but the GG trigger kit made a huge difference and I am happy with it. Altogether, I prefer the X-five platform. More practice is what is needed. 

 

I was using a DPP 7.5MOA on the PPQ and bought a ROMEO 6MOA. The round dot was weird for a while but I am now used to it. The ROMEO 6MOA is awesome. Very bright and clear. The only complaint that I was with it is that the brightness adjustment is not linear. There is a huge step change somewhere in the middle of the range. Weird.

 

I started with a GG fat guide rod and later bought a SP Tungsten Guide rod. I love how the heavy Tungsten guide rod dampens the felt recoil a little more but I have noticed that I was having a muzzle dip with it so have switched back to the GG fat rod. The difference in price between the two is pretty significant. You may want to test drive both and decide which one works for you.

 

Good luck.

 

 

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