sarnburg Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Currently there is little or no perceived value for the regular shooter to be a USPSA member. I define a regular shooter as someone who does not travel beyond the local clubs, does not care if they are classified, they are just there to shoot. We (IA09) ran and reported/paid 31 USPSA matches in the 2015 shooting season. (according to HQ this is a big number in comparison to other clubs??) I just finished up our club championship and about a third of our shooters fall into the regular shooter category. What value does a USPSA membership bring to the regular shooter? What is there to convince them they need to join? (aside from peer pressure) There has been a lot of talk about growing USPSA membership. This one third represents the low hanging fruit. They already attend matches we just need to up the value proposition on USPSA membership to push them over the edge. A separate question is why should a club choose to affiliate, or continue it's affiliation, with the USPSA? Our section has lost one club already in 2015 and most likely lose another. Both clubs still run matches they could not justify the expense of affiliation and activity fees. Is this a common trend else where? If so how do we change this? To grow USPSA potential members and clubs need to see some value for their time and money. What is USPSA's product and is it worth the money? Scott Arnburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Why do we care if casual shooters are USPSA members. I'm sure virtually all of my annual dues pay for my front sight subscription. USPSA still sees the activity fees from non-members, and they do not need to provide them any services. Win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Currently there is little or no perceived value for the regular shooter to be a USPSA member. I define a regular shooter as someone who does not travel beyond the local clubs, does not care if they are classified, they are just there to shoot. We (IA09) ran and reported/paid 31 USPSA matches in the 2015 shooting season. (according to HQ this is a big number in comparison to other clubs??) I just finished up our club championship and about a third of our shooters fall into the regular shooter category. What value does a USPSA membership bring to the regular shooter? What is there to convince them they need to join? (aside from peer pressure) There has been a lot of talk about growing USPSA membership. This one third represents the low hanging fruit. They already attend matches we just need to up the value proposition on USPSA membership to push them over the edge. A separate question is why should a club choose to affiliate, or continue it's affiliation, with the USPSA? Our section has lost one club already in 2015 and most likely lose another. Both clubs still run matches they could not justify the expense of affiliation and activity fees. Is this a common trend else where? If so how do we change this? To grow USPSA potential members and clubs need to see some value for their time and money. What is USPSA's product and is it worth the money? Scott Arnburg Good thoughts, why didn't you post them on our web site uspsa.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I belonged to USPSA for many years - enjoyed the magazine and the ability to shoot larger matches. No longer shoot non-local matches, don't really miss the mag, so I don't belong any longer. I was classified a B in OPEN and a C in Limited - didn't really mean too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockerSV Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Perhaps that could be in correlation to what the OP was asking. What reason would he go to the uspsa website when this forum has a great volume of active members that may have interesting points to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Perhaps that could be in correlation to what the OP was asking. What reason would he go to the uspsa website when this forum has a great volume of active members that may have interesting points to make? Sure, but does the people that make the decisions read this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I am pretty sure this topic is a major aspect of Mike Foley's presidential bid. Every time I heard him speak, he was talking about value for the local level. Why should people sign up? What does USPSA offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Around here "regular shooters" are those who are members, want classified, etc. Your regular shooter sounds more like our ,"I only come out once in a while to see some buddies" shooter. I think the ebb and flow has to do with locations since a new club just got affiliated near me last month. Things just must be different from state to state. I see value in being a member of USPSA and so do most of my shooting friends I guess. Can I put my finger on a specific reason? Not really. I think the magazine needs major improvements to the point it almost sucks, so that's not the reason. I guess I just feel the desire to belong to something bigger when it comes to the sport. I like seeing how ridiculous it is to make A in open. And I think shooters are really missing out if they don't at least shoot a couple of level II's a year. I also like to see shooters get certified as RO/CRO so they can help out with all levels of matches. Nothing wrong with asking , what's in it for me", I guess. But it would be nice if more said,"what can I do for USPSA". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockerSV Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Perhaps that could be in correlation to what the OP was asking. What reason would he go to the uspsa website when this forum has a great volume of active members that may have interesting points to make?Sure, but does the people that make the decisions read this? I think they may be doing us a disservice if not. This forum is a huge resource for shooters of the sport they lead. Would make sense to me that they have a presence here as well. Edited November 24, 2015 by bockerSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Currently there is little or no perceived value for the regular shooter to be a USPSA member. I define a regular shooter as someone who does not travel beyond the local clubs, does not care if they are classified, they are just there to shoot. We (IA09) ran and reported/paid 31 USPSA matches in the 2015 shooting season. (according to HQ this is a big number in comparison to other clubs??) I just finished up our club championship and about a third of our shooters fall into the regular shooter category. What value does a USPSA membership bring to the regular shooter? What is there to convince them they need to join? (aside from peer pressure) There has been a lot of talk about growing USPSA membership. This one third represents the low hanging fruit. They already attend matches we just need to up the value proposition on USPSA membership to push them over the edge. A separate question is why should a club choose to affiliate, or continue it's affiliation, with the USPSA? Our section has lost one club already in 2015 and most likely lose another. Both clubs still run matches they could not justify the expense of affiliation and activity fees. Is this a common trend else where? If so how do we change this? To grow USPSA potential members and clubs need to see some value for their time and money. What is USPSA's product and is it worth the money? Scott Arnburg Interesting. Affiliation is $50 a year for the club and Monthly match fees come out of the shooter's pocket. What do you charge for a match and what does the shooter get? in the Mid-Atlantic Section we have a fee schedule across all the clubs. $25 for non-members, $20 for members and clubs are allowed to discount to their own members. We also have a prize schedule; $30 for Division (5 required) $20 for first in Class (3 required), $12 for 2nd (8 required and $8 for 3rd, (15 required) So if you are unclassified, you can only win the division so there is an incentive. For your match fee you get 6-8 stages at most of the clubs, a couple smaller clubs do run 4. our monthly matches run between 40 and over 100 shooters. Our regular shooters are generally members of USPSA. FOr one, if they aren't then they are 'New' shooters. A classification is like a passport, you go to a new club and you have credibility, you are a know factor. You show up with all the gear, and a non-member, we don't know if you know what you are doing. Granted being classified doesn't guarantee anything, but it is at least a bit of an indicator that you probably have been exposed to the rules and you are not a brand new shooter runnin and gunnin for the first time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I think it's what the shooter wants out of competition along with being a regional thing. The club I most often shoot at runs 48 matches a year and averages about 100 shooters. 6 stages, $38, paid staff for setup and tear down. About 2/3's of this club regularly shoots Areas and Nationals (not to mention 3 Gun, Steel Challenge, ICORE, and some IDPA). There are several other clubs within 1 hour that run monthly or bi-monthly matches. These clubs tend to have a lower percentage of travelers. Our Area II sells out in 3 minutes at 250 shooters, the Rio Salado Desert Classic. It's spawned a 'Left out of Rio' match at Havasu and that fills up quick too. So there seems to be a rational that says, ok, didn't make Area II, again, so for the same $$$ (match entry, gas, food, hotel) I can shoot 20 or so regular matches. On the other hand, I have a shooting buddy who started about 6 years ago, is actually running well into A class Production, shoots almost every weekend, but sees no reason to join because he will never go to an Area or Nationals. And if you don't travel, there is no reason to have a 'passport' If the number of shooters per club match continues to grow, members or not, that is a good thing. Edited November 24, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNshooter Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I am pretty sure this topic is a major aspect of Mike Foley's presidential bid. Every time I heard him speak, he was talking about value for the local level. Why should people sign up? What does USPSA offer?I can't speak for Mike Foley but I view rules and classification are the value proposition. Without a uniform body (USPSA) you'd just have a bunch of run and gun outlaw pistol matches with varied rules from match to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnburg Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Perhaps that could be in correlation to what the OP was asking. What reason would he go to the uspsa website when this forum has a great volume of active members that may have interesting points to make? Sure, but does the people that make the decisions read this? This is all stuff I have shareed with my AD at length. I am looking for some input from people outside the Iowa section and Area 3. Scott Arnburg Edited November 24, 2015 by sarnburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Front Sight, Classifications and most importantly safe matches using USPSA Rules and Range Officer Training. If your're a once or twice a year shooter and never plan on anything bigger than a local match, there is never going to be any value to you personally. As a group, shooting a match under USPSA rules is priceless, it's just not visible to the casual observer, nor is it going to help your pocketbook or give you anything other than a warm fuzzy feeling for being part of a group that strives to promote an exciting, safe competitive environment. Kind of like what value is a NRA membership worth? If you like to shoot, the lobbying value is priceless but there is little direct value for the casual individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Most clubs around me charge 5 more for a non uspsa member to shoot, so if I shoot 10 locals I break even ( which I do) + 4/5 level 2 which require membership. Double win. I am a certified RO in addition , set up and tear down, and try to give back to the sport rather than just take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 31 matches x $5 extra would be a nice incentive If you shot 1/2 it would still be worthwhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Having uniform rules and common trained RO's are the reason I support the USPSA. I don't really care about the magazine or classification system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 The problem with USPSA membership goes well beyond what the Shooters see in Value from their annual dues. Currently the value provided to a USPSA member is really limited to the Classification system, access to attend Level 2+ major matches, and the Front Sight magazine. To determine value It all depends on the match frequency a shooter has and wanting their skill level "Ranked". If a shooter only attends a handful of local club matches each year, then its really not worth the cost to be a member. Realistically, if someone only attended one USPSA match a month their annual membership fee costs them $3.33 a match, which is chump change in the big picture really. The Front Sight magazine alone, regardless of the quality of it, would justify an extra $3.33 each match in my opinion. The bigger problem I see is there being near zero value in being an affiliated club. Annual club affiliation fee is $50, then classifier and mission count fee's are $3 per shooter per match. If you host 10 club matches a year with an average of 50 shooters that is $1550 in fee's paid to USPSA for what in return? The clubs only value in being USPSA affiliated is a Rule set, Classifiers, ability to market USPSA sanctioned events, and some really crappy scoring tools (EzWinScore and Online Squading if you host a Level 2 or above Match). As the original poster mentioned a club could NOT be USPSA affiliated and basically save themselves $1500 a year right off the top. Given how many affiliated clubs there are there is a CRAP TON of money flowing into USPSA every weekend from Mission Count and Classifier fee's alone. There are a lot of super dedicated people in this sport that really bust their hump to make USPSA matches happen. 99% of the time these dedicated people are donating their time and effort to make it all happen as well. Unfortunately USPSA does a really good job of taking advantage of these people and clubs. As a match director myself I some times wonder if our club would be better off without being an affiliated USPSA club. I can think of a lot of better use our $1550 in annual USPSA fee's are currently going towards. If I took that same amount of money and used it as a cash payback to the shooters based on match performance it would improve my matches attendance more than being an affiliated USPSA club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So the typical shooter at your match wouldn't care that it was an 'outlaw' match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 As a former MD, I thought it would have been nice if USPSA HQ could have partnered up with a steel target manufacturer. Then the clubs could get poppers at a discounted price. How many classifier stages require a popper or 6. Typical price for a full size 42 inch popper is about $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinj308 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Why do we care if casual shooters are USPSA members. I'm sure virtually all of my annual dues pay for my front sight subscription. USPSA still sees the activity fees from non-members, and they do not need to provide them any services. Win-win. Not if the club's not USPSA, most in my neighborhood aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Why do we care if casual shooters are USPSA members. I'm sure virtually all of my annual dues pay for my front sight subscription. USPSA still sees the activity fees from non-members, and they do not need to provide them any services. Win-win. Not if the club's not USPSA, most in my neighborhood aren't. Your profile says you're in Los Angeles, I ran a search and found 10 USPSA clubs in a 90 mile radius of LA.http://www.uspsa.org/locate-uspsa-clubs.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinj308 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Why do we care if casual shooters are USPSA members. I'm sure virtually all of my annual dues pay for my front sight subscription. USPSA still sees the activity fees from non-members, and they do not need to provide them any services. Win-win. Not if the club's not USPSA, most in my neighborhood aren't. Your profile says you're in Los Angeles, I ran a search and found 10 USPSA clubs in a 90 mile radius of LA.http://www.uspsa.org/locate-uspsa-clubs.php 90 miles isn't my neighborhood in my opinion. I've got 6 clubs in 25 miles and none are USPSA but one, SWPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I drive an hour or more to nearly all my "local" matches. Find someone to carpool with, makes the time pass faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinj308 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 We've got 5 out of 10 on this list though LOL. 90 miles is more like 3 or 4 hours depending on time of day http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-worst-roads-for-traffic-in-the-us-2013-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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