kneelingatlas Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 ^ wisdom ^ I'll add - don't be scared to get "too much gun" either, you'll waste tons of money buying guns you think you've "earned" before you byy the gun you want. Don't worry about guys who will look down on you for shooting a $5K Open gun as a C class shooter either, those guys are assholes anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Don't worry about guys who will look down on you for shooting a $5K Open gun as a C class shooter either, those guys are assholes anyway LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 After dabbling in Prod and SS with guns I already owned (prior to USPSA) I picked up a G24 so I could score major in limited. It was great- but I decided pretty quickly to take the plunge. I bought a used STI here on the classifieds and shot that until I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted, and then had Glenn at Lone Star Innovations build me exactly what I wanted. When should I have upgraded? The journey of buying and trying helped me get to where I am today- knowing what I want and looking forward to continue developing myself as a shooter with the gun I have chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Let me add something here. I am not saying buy an expensive gun. I am saying buy what you want. If you want a $5500 SVI buy it. But you might want an Edge. Or a custom gun from someone else. Or modified div. Gun to shoot in open cuz modified is defunct I. Ipsc. Whatever. Just get what YOU WANT. Me, I like building unique guns from scratch with my friends. I like shooting bullets I cast from lead I smelted, lubed with lube I made. Takes a crap load of time. So what. I like it. It motivates me to practice and I take pride in winning with the stuff I made. Find what motivates you. Buy that. Do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 A little background - I started shooting matches this year, got my membership and have been classified C in Limited, should be B rather soon. I'm running an XDM in 9mm, and am wondering when you start considering buying a different gun for the sake of competition, IE a 2011. I know I'm at a disadvantage shooting minor, but I'm curious as to how big that difference really is. Any thoughts or observations for a rookie who wants to improve? Thanks. Are you shooting 93-98% of points on every stage? Are you shooting clean -- no miss and procedural penalties? Is there anything left that you really need to work on -- draw, reload, transition, moving targets, stage planning and execution? As long as you still have significant progress to make in any of these areas, continue to stick with the gun you picked and practice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Buy your last gun first All kidding aside, try them all out and buy what you want. But buying stepping stone guns is expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Oh, be like the rest of us who have gone over to the Blue Team.................We have all done the following: We received our new SV and we haven't even finished taking off all of the Enos Lube yet (sorry Brian) and we have submitted our next Gunbuilder and we are thinking of what our new Gunbuilder should look like......... I take no responsibility for my above actions. I blame it all on Taran Butler. He started me down this road. Do I really need to say more? Upgrade.....whenever the new build goes from the order line to the build line........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPG Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) ... am wondering when you start considering buying a different gun for the sake of competition, IE a 2011... ...but I'm curious as to how big that difference really is... Consider buying a new gun whenever you want to buy a new gun If a new gun will make you want to practice/shoot more, then get it. If you like your XDm - stick with it. Here's what I know about the differences between Major and Minor. Major shooters have about a 1s advantage over a minor shooter for a given stage. Meaning - if you're shooting minor, you'll have to shoot about 1s faster per stage than an equivalent major shooter. This assumes that you get the same hits, and the hits are 75% As and 25% Cs - like the many of the top shooters. (Ratios based on 2014 Area 8 and Area 4 scores) FWIW, I attached a file that shows the times and the A/C ratios a minor shooter needs to get to make the same hit factor as a major shooter. The A/C distribution for Major is 75/25 in the attached sheet. It also includes the times a minor shooter would need to hit if they increased their accuracy. Apologies in advance if the numbers are off a slight bit - I put this together in 10 mins. You get the idea. Major vs Minor.pdf Edited September 22, 2014 by JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novie Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Top two shooters at last weeks Indiana USPSA match were Glock and CZ, 2011 for third. Buy when you want, but do not think that you will become an instant Master by getting a new gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noximus03 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I stopped shooting plastic last Oct after running 3 years and only getting to a high C. Swtiched platforms (doesnt matter which one for this argument) and made mid B in 4 months. Take that for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 While you can always buy a better gun than the one you have (unless you already own a CZ Shadow ) you would be far better off spending your money on taking a class from the likes of Stoeger, Anderson or Seeklander than trying to buy your way to better scores. $350 for a 2-day class will literally save you years of frustrating training trying figure out ths stuff on your own. Until you can shoot 90%+ points at a match on command I don't really think your gun is holding you back .... This. Add Mink and Manny to the list of people to train with, BTW. I will say that if it were possible to know exactly what gun to use for a given division - the one you will stick with for a long, long time - it would be better to switch sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) I shot limited Minor for almost 2 years with my 3gun pistol (STI tactical 2011) before I went to open. I used a USPSA State match to test and see if Minor could stack up to Major with a fellow shooter who I believe was at the same level of shooting as I was, him shooting major and me shooting Minor. The Verdict, you cannot shoot A's fast enough. I haven't shot Limited Minor seriously since. Alpha Charlie = 8 points Minor Two Charlie = 8 point Major Guess whats faster to shoot. Edited September 22, 2014 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 A little background - I started shooting matches this year, got my membership and have been classified C in Limited, should be B rather soon. I'm running an XDM in 9mm, and am wondering when you start considering buying a different gun for the sake of competition, IE a 2011. I know I'm at a disadvantage shooting minor, but I'm curious as to how big that difference really is. Any thoughts or observations for a rookie who wants to improve? Thanks. Are you shooting 93-98% of points on every stage? Are you shooting clean -- no miss and procedural penalties? Is there anything left that you really need to work on -- draw, reload, transition, moving targets, stage planning and execution? As long as you still have significant progress to make in any of these areas, continue to stick with the gun you picked and practice..... This makes sense, if, if you enjoy this gun as much as the next. Lots of people enjoy shooting a STI/SVI more than a XD. Are you getting paid to shoot? If not, go with what's fun. Get too serious, lose the fun, lose any reason to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) Until your skills outperform your equipment you are better off spending the gun money on ammo and training. That said, if you just want some cool new gun, I'm all for it. Edited September 22, 2014 by freakshow10mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Buy your last gun first All kidding aside, try them all out and buy what you want. But buying stepping stone guns is expensive That's ultimately what I decided and one of the reasons why I went with SVI when I got bit hard by the USPSA Single Stack bug. I was weighing going with a "stepping stone gun" or going with something higher end. It was actually my wife who just told me to just be done with it and go with the SV in the end. I started shooting USPSA a couple years ago and moved from unclassified to C pretty quickly almost exclusively because I shoot with a bunch of freakin' Jedis at my local club. They're a very generous bunch when it comes to tips and the like. The stage designers at this club are a very creative bunch also so it helps that the difficultly level never makes things easy. I've had to really slack off because of working full-time and being in school full-time, but I'm planning on developing a symbiotic relationship with this SVI 1911 since I'll get it my greasy mitts on it a little bit before graduation this spring. Oh, and Roy Neal is a terrible influence. He (and the other Team Infinity shooters) was entirely too generous with his time and knowledge and is one of the reasons I ended up going SVI in the end. Seriously. Come. Join us. Everyone's doing it. Come towards the light, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 It was actually my wife who just told me to just be done with it and go with the SV in the end. I'm always puzzled by guys who talk about hiding guns from their wives, you do get to pick who you spend the rest of your life with, choose wisely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 While you can always buy a better gun than the one you have (unless you already own a CZ Shadow ) you would be far better off spending your money on taking a class from the likes of Stoeger, Anderson or Seeklander than trying to buy your way to better scores. $350 for a 2-day class will literally save you years of frustrating training trying figure out ths stuff on your own. Until you can shoot 90%+ points at a match on command I don't really think your gun is holding you back .... This. Add Mink and Manny to the list of people to train with, BTW. I will say that if it were possible to know exactly what gun to use for a given division - the one you will stick with for a long, long time - it would be better to switch sooner than later. Yeah, I don't know why I always leave Manny off - he's right in my backyard ..Matt too ... I think I was trying to give a plug to guys I've trained with and who participate on the forum .... One caveat ... If buying a new gun will make you happy by all means do it. Life is too short to have any regrets when you are lying in bed in a nursing home drooling ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 C'mon Eric.........you like the Blue Team.....we have Kool-Aid and Brownies (with chocolate icing of course)...... And your welcome........happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePeanutGallery Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) This thread is great. I like this forum already... JPG - thanks for those numbers, that helps put the major / minor things in better perspective. Nik - very good points, I do still have lots of things to work on. ZHunter/EricJHuber - valid points with the stepping stone guns being expensive... I'm not too keen on buying several different guns just to find the one style I like. I do need to start bumming guns off of people, but there aren't too many around here who shoot 2011s. And yes, I might have to agree with you on Roy. He's entirely too generous with his time. Edited September 23, 2014 by ThePeanutGallery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lppd4 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Do you reload? Might need to, too take full advantage of that new STI. Some new STI's need a bit of tuning, refinement, personalization. Magazines are $100(or more) each set up properly, I think you need at least 3. A whole lot more than the investment of the pistol. With that said jump in with both feet. Awesome pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 XDM's have a lot of muzzle flip... As far as ease to shoot and score well with, once properly setup . . . CZ/Tanfoglio>2011>M&P>Glock>XDM This list would be entirely different for a carry/duty pistol, I'm strictly talking competition. That all being said, Tanfoglios use crappy, break prone parts. 2011's are expensive and need tuning. I really like the CZ Tactical Sport, great gun for limited, with it and proper setup (even with a completely stock trigger, which is comparatively wonderful), you can not currently blame any loss on your gun. I would not say the same about the XDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Fatboy Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 When your wife goes to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayohee Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 The problem with finding the right gun is that you need to shoot A LOT of them in order to find out which one is for you. Try running a few practice sessions with a buddies gun if you can. I thought I'd stay with my G34 forever in Prod until I shot a CZ. After I felt my buddy's trigger I felt like I had been lied to this whole time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePeanutGallery Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 The problem with finding the right gun is that you need to shoot A LOT of them in order to find out which one is for you. Try running a few practice sessions with a buddies gun if you can. I thought I'd stay with my G34 forever in Prod until I shot a CZ. After I felt my buddy's trigger I felt like I had been lied to this whole time! Yup, thats what I'm going to be trying to do - most of the guys around here run glocks and xdms though, so not a lot of variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWprotected Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well I have only been shooting USPSA for about 9 months so many others have more experience than I do, but for major I think it will be easier with a 2011 or some other gun with some weight. I am a fan of the M&P pistols its what I shot IDPA and steel with and did pretty well. A friend of mine advised me against the M&P for limited and I went that direction anyway for a minute. After shooting a 2011 vs the M&P it did not take long to figure out I made a mistake. I still love my Pro in 9mm but for 40 the STI Edge I ended up buying is much more comfortable to shoot and I shoot it faster. Also with the 2011 guns I have shot they are in my hands just more accurate. I completely understand the dilemma of performance vs cost and 2011 guns and mags are not cheap but if you are wanting one it is worth the money not only to satisfy that desire but you will also be buying a top notch gun to learn and progress with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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