2 Revolver Subdivisions in USPSA Revolver

[pskys2]

Having any gun scored major while not requiring 165 PF to do so does eliminate the "V". Scoring Minor for anything under 165 PF does not eliminate the "V" as your score is based on the benefit of the lower recoiling round and reflects the lesser power of the round. Now someone who gets 164.9 has the worst of both worlds and is either cutting it too close or something got fouled up big time. Of course getting 124.9 makes for a very bad day.

[Carmoney]

This is ridiculous, maybe it's just because revo guys like spinning their wheels repeatedly ad nauseum?

I suggest you find another forum to troll.

[Carmoney]

Troy, thanks for taking the time to ask the question here.

I personally would not support splitting the division. Participation in revolver is already far too thin as it is.

I am in favor of changing the rules to allow 8-minor alongside 6-major. My distant second choice would be to leave it alone.

[Dragon11]

8 shot minor would be scored as minor and inaccuracy would be rewarded with fewer points.

6 shot would have the option of shooting major and being scored as such with less penalty for inaccuracy.

The balance of accuracy, power, and speed would still be in play.

A "similar to" situation exists for single stack right now and that seems to work.

It is all open for discussion, and that is good. I am certainly not trying to stop that.

I certainly haven't taken anything said as being negative, and I, in retrospect, hope I didn't come across as negative. I was very vocal on this topic in months past, but have put myself in a watch observe mode. Yes, I like revo the way it is. Yes, if we had to make a change, I have argued for six shot minor for everyone. However, having said that, things are what they are, and what ever the board decides, I in the end want what everyone wants, to shoot revolvers and have more people shoot them with us.

Knowing that this could be a fundamental permanent change I just want to play "devils advocate" and make sure all options are covered to provide the best interest for everyone. At this point, I'm ready for a decision to be made, what ever that might be.

[Grim]

If we're going to do something crazy like subdivisions, then open should probably be on the table for discussion.....

I agree. If you are going to split up the pool of available revo shooters you should do it right.

Open Revo - No limit on capacity or shots per position. Optics and porting allowed. This lets those pesky Taurus 8 shot guns in as well as the S&W Pro and Performance center guns.

Limited Revo - Use current rules.

Classic Revo - 6 shot guns only. No moon clips. Speed loaders only. No optics (post and notch sites only). No ported or compensated barrels.

Major/minor determined by power factor in all divisions.

All that aside. I am still quite content with 8 minor/6 major as had previously been proposed.

-ld

That is a great idea, I like it!

[j33716]

One additional problem with adding divisions is scoring programs.

They do have major and minor but it would be a major update to include new divisions

Jay Corn

Candidate for 2014 Area 6 Director

[mcb]

I am going to try to ask this again I think it got lost in the arguments. Do we have a timeline yet on when this will be voted on and, if passed, when the rule change would go into effect?

[Wagonburner]

I support 6maj,8min, I am a 6 major shooter but this month got a 8 shot and shot a match.great skill builder and was FUN

[Grim]

One additional problem with adding divisions is scoring programs.

They do have major and minor but it would be a major update to include new divisions

Jay Corn

Candidate for 2014 Area 6 Director

So .... we're more concerned with the inconvenience of updating the scoring program versus brining more revolver shooter into the fold?

[Dogged]

I will support revolver division as it is or with changes, it doesn't matter anymore. This is driving me to drink; I just can't decide on 8 packs of 7oz. Miller Ponies or the 12 oz. 6 packs.

[Bubber]

Dogged, Dogged, Dogged, even I know that 8 7oz cans is less than 6 12oz cans, 56 to 72. You get an extra pint.! I too am tiring of the discussion and awaiting the ruling. I will shoot whatever and whereever I can. But now at least we have a reason to drink

[Dragon11]

Dogged, Dogged, Dogged, even I know that 8 7oz cans is less than 6 12oz cans, 56 to 72. You get an extra pint.! I too am tiring of the discussion and awaiting the ruling. I will shoot whatever and whereever I can. But now at least we have a reason to drink

Your math does look correct. As long as you remember that quality should be put before quantity....at least some of the time.

[dcloudy777]

At this point,, if I was just wishing, my ideal solution would be for USPSA to acquire ICORE like they did Steel Challenge. Then spin it off into a separate game called USPSARevolve, and have 4 divisions

Classic: 6 shot no moonclips

Limited 6: 6 shot clips

Limited 8: 8 shot clips

Open : comps, optics, whatever.

If we're just wishin'....

DanO

[Tom E]

I'm for the 6 major / 8 minor but I think that if the idea is to increase participation we can do more. The rules would still make the discontinued 5" 625 THE 6 shot gun. There are alot of 6 shooters out there people could (and might) shoot if they felt they weren't effectively excluded from any chance of being competitive by the rules. A 125 (or 110) PF for major scoring for 6 shooters could draw out more shooters and I thought that was the idea. I don't see a downside.

[Tom Freeman]

I am against splitting up revo.

I am for the 8 minor/6 major deal. If the board decides to not allow 8 minor, I say just kill the division and make Revo a special tag within Limited and Open.

[mcb]

Je, tuna ratiba bado juu ya wakati huu kura kwenye na, kama kupita, wakati mabadiliko ya utawala bila kwenda katika athari?

[kmca]

The division won't grow if it's kept the way it is. It probably won't gain new shooters by adding 8 shot revolvers, they'll probably come from the other divisions. If there was a way to get all the 6 shot 38's out of the safe, and use them as close to "out of the box" configurations, that would get new shooters.

Sorry, I wish I knew how to do that

[Flexmoney]

The division won't grow if it's kept the way it is. It probably won't gain new shooters by adding 8 shot revolvers, they'll probably come from the other divisions.

That is my fear. Where will the new guys come from? New guys aren't sporting 8 round wheel guns.

If there was a way to get all the 6 shot 38's out of the safe, and use them as close to "out of the box" configurations, that would get new shooters.

Sorry, I wish I knew how to do that

Best bet there would be 6-Minor for all.

[Chuck Anderson]

I am going to try to ask this again I think it got lost in the arguments. Do we have a timeline yet on when this will be voted on and, if passed, when the rule change would go into effect?

No specific date yet. The rules were put out for review for 90 days so ball park end of September or early October. Implementation would be around January, 2014.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm for the 6 major / 8 minor but I think that if the idea is to increase participation we can do more. The rules would still make the discontinued 5" 625 THE 6 shot gun. There are alot of 6 shooters out there people could (and might) shoot if they felt they weren't effectively excluded from any chance of being competitive by the rules. A 125 (or 110) PF for major scoring for 6 shooters could draw out more shooters and I thought that was the idea. I don't see a downside.

I wouldn't be willing to score a 126 PF gun major but what about scoring everything minor like we do in Production? It wouldn't make any guns obsolete. You can always down load a 625 to super light loads without worrying about making the gun run and they are really easy to load. The .38 loads would still have to make minor, but that's not terribly difficult.

I'm not in favor of taking a small division and splitting it into two and certainly not three.

[kmca]

I'm for the 6 major / 8 minor but I think that if the idea is to increase participation we can do more. The rules would still make the discontinued 5" 625 THE 6 shot gun. There are alot of 6 shooters out there people could (and might) shoot if they felt they weren't effectively excluded from any chance of being competitive by the rules. A 125 (or 110) PF for major scoring for 6 shooters could draw out more shooters and I thought that was the idea. I don't see a downside.

I wouldn't be willing to score a 126 PF gun major but what about scoring everything minor like we do in Production? It wouldn't make any guns obsolete. You can always down load a 625 to super light loads without worrying about making the gun run and they are really easy to load. The .38 loads would still have to make minor, but that's not terribly difficult.

I'm not in favor of taking a small division and splitting it into two and certainly not three.

I don't know about your typical stage, but around me, 8 round friendly is a lot more common than 6 round friendly. 8 shooter, 4 reloads, 6 shooter, at least 6 with a couple more standing reloads required.

[Tom E]

I wouldn't be willing to score a 126 PF gun major but what about scoring everything minor like we do in Production? It wouldn't make any guns obsolete...

With 8 shooters in the mix "scoring everything minor like we do in Production" would obsolete all the 6 shooters. Major 6 and minor 8 makes it workable. Making it viable for more 6 shooters should make for more participation. 165PF for major .40 and up, 110 PF for major for sub .40 (.38)?

[Chuck Anderson]

I wouldn't be willing to score a 126 PF gun major but what about scoring everything minor like we do in Production? It wouldn't make any guns obsolete...

With 8 shooters in the mix "scoring everything minor like we do in Production" would obsolete all the 6 shooters. Major 6 and minor 8 makes it workable. Making it viable for more 6 shooters should make for more participation. 165PF for major .40 and up, 110 PF for major for sub .40 (.38)?

Sorry, that would be leaving the 8 shooters out. We'd lose some potential ICORE folks but there are a lot more Model 10 Smith's out there than Model 627's. And, no way would I agree to drop PF down to 110. We'd have to change how we calibrate steel and some just doesn't want to be set that light. To be blunt, and this is only me speaking, it's not worth it to make that much of a change to cater to what is likely less than a 100 shooters it would effect.

[mcb]

I am going to try to ask this again I think it got lost in the arguments. Do we have a timeline yet on when this will be voted on and, if passed, when the rule change would go into effect?

No specific date yet. The rules were put out for review for 90 days so ball park end of September or early October. Implementation would be around January, 2014.

Thank you very much Chuck!

Edited July 29, 2013 by mcb

[Ty Hamby]

At this point,, if I was just wishing, my ideal solution would be for USPSA to acquire ICORE like they did Steel Challenge. Then spin it off into a separate game called USPSARevolve, and have 4 divisions

Classic: 6 shot no moonclips

Limited 6: 6 shot clips

Limited 8: 8 shot clips

Open : comps, optics, whatever.

If we're just wishin'....

DanO

Please No! Oh please NO! Leave ICORE alone. It is perfect just the way it is. USPSA just needs a little tweak in revolver division and they will see the division grow. Might loose 30-40% of the 625 guy to bottom feeder divisions out of protest, but I believe they will pick up 60% more 8 minor competitors.

Note: I say competitors cause shooting one of those automatic bottom feeders is what participants do. lol