2 Revolver Subdivisions in USPSA Revolver

[mactiger]

I read Nik's survey thread with some interest. I've had a lot of Revolver shooters contact me, with varying response to the proposed 6 Major/ 8 Minor division change.

I had several suggestions for either two Revo divisions, or subdivisions within Revo, simply 6 shot and 8 shot, PF determined by chrono.

What say you?

Troy

[mwx40x40]

I am in the leave it alone camp. Seems like we want to take the smallest Division in USPSA and divide it in to even smaller Division.

Just my .02 worth. Probably worth even less .

[COF]

Adding more revolver shooters is the primary goal but this would reduce the number of shooters in each division - much like IDPA did with splitting ESR and SSR. 6-major/8-minor creates a competitive environment for both to compete together. Adding a "Classic" category for speedloader fed guns would allow recognition of them and possibly encourage more revolver participation.

[Cd662]

We have this conversation like, every four or five weeks.

[onebadeye]

I'm with mwx40x40 leave it alone.

[Bubber]

If a match director wished to recognize a "category" such as speedloader, 6 shot, he should be able to. But to divide the division with multiple sub Divisions just opens up another can of worms. If the 6 major and 8 minor goes through let us get behind it and shoot the revos, I do anyway. later rdd

Edited July 27, 2013 by Bubber

[Shadowrider]

Definitely NOT in favor of scoring the whole division at minor PF. Whatever else happens I'll still play.

[dwarren9]

I'm with Bubber.

[MarkCO]

I told my AD what I think, and that is leave it the way it is. If, as revolver shooters surmise, the stand alone nationals will bring in more revo shooters, then fine, bring it on and when you have a few hundred revos shooting every week at local matches, then maybe then some tinkering may be beneficial. I think tinkering with it in 2013/2014 to be a premature move and it may in fact kill the division altogether. Adding another revolver division...I would not be in favor of that at all. I've shot my 610 at a few matches, and will do so again unless 8 shot is introduced, then I probably won't bother.

The revo shooters I have spoken with in person were divided on the 6/8 issue, but most said they did not think tinkering would add any members or mission count to local matches, just move a few around a bit. It is an assessment that appears to be valid.

[Nik Habicht]

If we're going to do something crazy like subdivisions, then open should probably be on the table for discussion.....

[Guest]

I'm in favor of the 6 Major/ 8 Minor division change.

I don't think that splitting the division into 6 shooters and 8 shooters would be as beneficial. Also, I agree with Nik that if splitting the division into 6 rounders and 8 rounders is being considered as an option then an open revolver division should be considered, too.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Bamboo

[Cd662]

This is ridiculous, maybe it's just because revo guys like spinning their wheels repeatedly ad nauseum?

[mcb]

Do we have a time line when this will be voted on by the BOD and then when it will be implemented in matches?

[jhgtyre]

If we're going to do something crazy like subdivisions, then open should probably be on the table for discussion.....

I agree. If you are going to split up the pool of available revo shooters you should do it right.

Open Revo - No limit on capacity or shots per position. Optics and porting allowed. This lets those pesky Taurus 8 shot guns in as well as the S&W Pro and Performance center guns.

Limited Revo - Use current rules.

Classic Revo - 6 shot guns only. No moon clips. Speed loaders only. No optics (post and notch sites only). No ported or compensated barrels.

Major/minor determined by power factor in all divisions.

All that aside. I am still quite content with 8 minor/6 major as had previously been proposed.

-ld

[pskys2]

Troy, NO.

We would like to grow the Division, splitting it further seems counter productive.

Only time will tell if, at least at the bigger matches, Revolver with 6 major/8 minor will work as hoped.

As in every Division a certain platform combo becomes the standard with minor personal differences.

The hope is, at least at the major matches, the 8 shot advantage will be offset by the minor handicap and conversely the 6 shot handicap will be offset by the major advantage. Leaving it to the skill of the competitor to determine their own placement by performance.

I'm sure whatever Jerry, Matt, Cliff, TGO or any of the top GM competitors uses will be the winning combo and if they all use the same Revo, that will become the standard. If Jerry or TGO wins with minor, yet Matt or Cliif keep winning with their 6 shots, well that will keep the Division interesting and help it thrive. And that is the hope and the goal.

Do we have a time line when this will be voted on by the BOD and then when it will be implemented in matches?

Seems I heard a September On Line Meeting was scheduled and my guess is a likely vote then.

If approved, early 2014.

[Bwana Six-Gun]

As one of the original revolver shooters at our club, I say let it go with the 6 Major/8 Minor, if that is the BOD's decision. Like Bubber and Pskys2 said, don't dilute the small pool of shooters we have further.

I further agree with Pskys2, that the point differential between major and minor and the speed of reloads with the 625/25 will offset the extra two rounds in most cases, especially at the club level and for most B Class and below shooters. The 8-shot will make the difference with the GM/M shooters and most of the A Class.

My .02 YMMV.

[Flexmoney]

Here is the thing about "sub" divisions and equipment sub-categories... they are really just new divisions. It's just naming them something else. They do the same thing.

[Flexmoney]

As for splitting Revo...

I ask...what is the goal? Is it more participation, or more competition? Splitting would likely decrease the competition.

I still like to think of USPSA as a place for competitors. Other sports have participants.

[Blueridge]

I am ready for the vote to occur and the proposed change(s) to become official. Several interesting viewpoints have been expressed and I am now ready to see what the actual effect(s) on the revolver division will be.

[ChrisC]

I brought up before what Bubber brought up in this thread. I'd like to see recognition for the top 6 shooter in a 8vs6 revolver division. Its a $20 dollar plaque for a competitor that paid the same as the top lady, top junior etc etc. I am not in favor of three revolver divisions.

I think it would be up to the match director. If you attract a fair amount of revo shooters maybe even toss in a plaque for the top speed loader guy like Sam does in Memphis.

But only if there is a significant amount of revo shooters in the category.

[smith52]

I DO NOT want to see revo divided into sub-divisions. That will make our small division even smaller.

Edited July 28, 2013 by smith52

[Tom E]

I support 8 minor / 6 major. I'd also like an across the board 125PF for revolver. Everybody gets 125 PF but 8 shooters are scored minor, six shooters are scored major. Getting beat up with major loads in a revolver to make holes in paper makes no sense to me. It's considerabley more abuse than major in a semi-auto.

[Guest]

I support 8 minor / 6 major. I'd also like an across the board 125PF for revolver. Everybody gets 125 PF but 8 shooters are scored minor, six shooters are scored major. Getting beat up with major loads in a revolver to make holes in paper makes no sense to me. It's considerabley more abuse than major in a semi-auto.

Wouldn't that pretty much eliminate the "V" in DVC?

[Dragon11]

I support 8 minor / 6 major. I'd also like an across the board 125PF for revolver. Everybody gets 125 PF but 8 shooters are scored minor, six shooters are scored major. Getting beat up with major loads in a revolver to make holes in paper makes no sense to me. It's considerabley more abuse than major in a semi-auto.

Wouldn't that pretty much eliminate the "V" in DVC?

Doesn't eight shot minor take away from the "V" in DVC also? If we're willing to let the 8 shot minor into the division, and there are fears that it would dominate the division over 6 shots, doesn't Tom E's idea go a little further with making them both competitive with each other. If the argument is to grow the division and make it fun for everyone, doesn't that idea help with that. It seems to me you could make 8 shot minor and 6 shot major competitive with each other, grow the division by allowing other styles of revolvers in, and make it appealing by raising the fun factor......I think the idea has promise.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Dragon11

[Guest]

8 shot minor would be scored as minor and inaccuracy would be rewarded with fewer points.

6 shot would have the option of shooting major and being scored as such with less penalty for inaccuracy.

The balance of accuracy, power, and speed would still be in play.

A "similar to" situation exists for single stack right now and that seems to work.

It is all open for discussion, and that is good. I am certainly not trying to stop that.