Questionable Power Factor at a local match

[d_striker]

I really don't think one can determine whether someone's ammo makes PF based on report intensity and 2nd person perceived muzzle flip.

I shoot regularly with a guy that shoots a 220 grain cast bullet using a small charge of WST in a 6" .40 STI. The report is ridiculously quiet and his gun doesn't appear to move at all, but I have personally seen his load easily make major over a chrono.

[fishhunter3]

I have one person at the local club that is always says things about my load for my revo being light,shot the same load at the revo nationals and it came in at 182.some powders are just not as loud as others.

[oddjob]

At our club the staff will once in a while set up a chrono for "informational purposes" only. This is for those that don't have access to one. I think it works to keep folks honest without doing the finger pointing gig. The verbal abuse at our club is enough to keep one honest!

[Sandbagger123]

i have had people make interesting remarks about my ammo. I tell them to put their money where their mouth is, and lets bet a steak dinner. I f does not make PF, i will buy and vice versa.

so far all the persons i have challenged have not been willing to put their money down. Sound and recoil lie. A chrono does not.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Sandbagger123

[Cd662]

I would love for someone to set up a legit chrono at a local match sometime, and I'd definitely pay to shoot over it, or let the chrono owner shoot over it for me. I wouldn't want to sit through a chrono procedure at a Level 1 match though, unless it was set up as an awards match.

[Chills1994]

Let's say the questionable shooter's name is Bob.

Announce before a match at the safety meeting that you won a chrono at a match. You have two now, and that you don't need the extra one, that you're looking to sell. Then squad with Bob. After Bob gets shooting a stage, just coincidentally meet up with him at his range bag as he reloads his mags. Say something like " Man! I wish I could sell that chrono, you interested?". Then see what he says. It'll be one of three things if he is cheating:

1. "I already have one."

2. "Nah, I don't have the money for one right now."

3. "my ammo chrono'ed at 175 at XYZ major match".

If he is cheating., knowingly, he would never ever say "You got a spare chrono!? Great! I always wondered how fast my ammo was going. I'll take it! Thanks for asking me!"

[Nik Habicht]

Those could also be my answers, if I wasn't cheating....

1. "I already have one."

2. "Nah, I don't have the money for one right now."

3. "my ammo chrono'ed at 175 at XYZ major match".

Next.....

[Larry White]

Only two ways to look at this. Set up a chrono( you need one anyway) and check everyone at a match. The other one is forgett it, quit worring about it and get on down the road.-----------Larry

[Steve RA]

Agree with the above, either solve the problem = chrono, or forget it !

[Chills1994]

Those could also be my answers, if I wasn't cheating....

1. "I already have one."

2. "Nah, I don't have the money for one right now."

3. "my ammo chrono'ed at 175 at XYZ major match".

Next.....

Thanks, Nik, you can be my Huckleberry any time:

Then the responses would be or could be:

1. "Oh, you have one already. What kind? What is your ammo chrono'ing at?"

2. "That's okay if you don't have the money right now. I brought it along today if you want to chrono your ammo after the match."

3. "Oh, yeah, I remember that match. I heard their chrono ran kinda slow." EDIT: "Their chrono has always been historically slow at that match. I always bump my load up for just that one match. What kind of powder and charge weight are you using?"

Edited June 26, 2013 by Chills1994

[kneelingatlas]

How would you handle the issue?

I'd quit being such a Nancy and order some Captains of Crush!

Edited June 26, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[BHill]

No question, get the crono or let it be. You can't lie or deceive your way into a higher moral ground than the potential cheater.

[Chills1994]

"Have you thought about switching to magnum primers?"

[Craig N]

If I was a shooter at a match with no chrono and one of my squad mates was running obviously under powered ammo the verbal abuse would be pretty thick until they were able to convince me I was wrong. I would say that if the shooter has been asked about it to verify that they are aware of the rules and how power factor is calculated and they say they are in compliance then I would add a chrono stage to a match, or if I was short on time I would announce that there would be a chrono stage at the next match and see if ammo or PF declaration changed.

Mike

I don't think I'd flirt with a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct over some dudes PF at a local match.

[bikerburgess]

If I was a shooter at a match with no chrono and one of my squad mates was running obviously under powered ammo the verbal abuse would be pretty thick until they were able to convince me I was wrong. I would say that if the shooter has been asked about it to verify that they are aware of the rules and how power factor is calculated and they say they are in compliance then I would add a chrono stage to a match, or if I was short on time I would announce that there would be a chrono stage at the next match and see if ammo or PF declaration changed.

Mike

I don't think I'd flirt with a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct over some dudes PF at a local match.

Well I don't think the "verbal abuse" I would be dishing out would be anywhere near that, it would be more along the lines of lots of reloading questions and jokes like " those are actually making holes in the target?"

Mike

[kneelingatlas]

I would keep a fired bullet in my pocket, then stick it in one of his targets before the score keeper gets to it; should be good for a laugh or two!

[CHA-LEE]

I don't understand why there is so much beating around the bush on this subject. As a Match Director, If I thought that someone was congenitally cheating the PF on purpose, I would bring my chrono to the next match. Capture rounds from the shooters used magazines after a stage run, then run through the official chrono process defined in the rule book. The shooter would have the choice of shooting the ammo over the chrono to prove that they are making their declared PF or shooting the match for no score if they refuse to shoot the ammo over the chrono.

Doing this should be a sufficient wake up call for everyone at the match, not just the guy accused of cheating.

[sperman]

You would have to run all competitors across the chrono (maybe that's what you mean. No apostrophe, so I don't know if "shooters" is singular or plural.)

[Babaganoosh]

No question, get the crono or let it be. You can't lie or deceive your way into a higher moral ground than the potential cheater.

Well said.

[CHA-LEE]

You would have to run all competitors across the chrono (maybe that's what you mean. No apostrophe, so I don't know if "shooters" is singular or plural.)

Yes, setup an unannounced chrono stage at a local match instead of a normal stage and run everyone through it. Repeat for as many club matches as it takes to weed out the dead beats.

[Craig N]

If I was a shooter at a match with no chrono and one of my squad mates was running obviously under powered ammo the verbal abuse would be pretty thick until they were able to convince me I was wrong. I would say that if the shooter has been asked about it to verify that they are aware of the rules and how power factor is calculated and they say they are in compliance then I would add a chrono stage to a match, or if I was short on time I would announce that there would be a chrono stage at the next match and see if ammo or PF declaration changed.

Mike

I don't think I'd flirt with a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct over some dudes PF at a local match.

Well I don't think the "verbal abuse" I would be dishing out would be anywhere near that, it would be more along the lines of lots of reloading questions and jokes like " those are actually making holes in the target?"

Mike

Depends how far the guy wanted to take it. He could report you to the RM for harassment. In this day and age no telling what would happen.

[ima45dv8]

If I was a shooter at a match with no chrono and one of my squad mates was running obviously under powered ammo the verbal abuse would be pretty thick until they were able to convince me I was wrong. I would say that if the shooter has been asked about it to verify that they are aware of the rules and how power factor is calculated and they say they are in compliance then I would add a chrono stage to a match, or if I was short on time I would announce that there would be a chrono stage at the next match and see if ammo or PF declaration changed.

Mike

I don't think I'd flirt with a DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct over some dudes PF at a local match.

Well I don't think the "verbal abuse" I would be dishing out would be anywhere near that, it would be more along the lines of lots of reloading questions and jokes like " those are actually making holes in the target?"

Mike

Depends how far the guy wanted to take it. He could report you to the RM for harassment. In this day and age no telling what would happen.

And depending on the RM, no telling how loud the laughter would be.

[MikeRush]

We have a local shooter who claims his factory 9 makes major in Limited. Nobody cares much because he has never been even remotely close to winning.

[Nik Habicht]

We have a local shooter who claims his factory 9 makes major in Limited. Nobody cares much because he has never been even remotely close to winning.

Doesn't matter what he claims -- 9 can't make major in Limited per the USPSA rules. Minimum caliber requirement is .40 for major....

[MikeRush]

I explained that to him, that he would have to be in open and that his 115s would have to be flying at 1435 fps. It doesn't matter too much though, because a no shoot mike mike scores the same major or minor...