outerlimits Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 First off, I have no axe to grind- I shoot open cause I want to. But hear me out- open as a division, is dying, quickly. It is going the way of limited as we once knew it. Why? Lots of reasons. Let's start with 3gun nation. Nuff said-open a bastard child last year, non-existent this year. Secondly, the pond is pretty small now-if you wanna shoot with the heat, tactical is the heat. Look at the equipment-start with shotgun. Hardly any advantage in open. Load two and quad load has shrunk the gap in reload time to the point where if you really practice, it's too close to call. Mag fed shotguns? Course design killing it as well, not to mention the cost. Rifle? I can't remember the last time a bipod was an advantage. Let's face it, we all monopod anyway. A second optic? Who cares. Variable scopes with a switch view makes it not necessary. Big comp? Again, no big given tuning the gas systems on our AR's. Pistols? A dot and comp is a bit of an advantage, but in MG, there are so few pistol challenging stages that it doesn't matter. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 And the 60 and 100 round mags most matches allow in the Tac/Lim divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hax Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I sure hope not! I plan to shoot up open starting next year. I sure hope there's some competition, I only have so much room on my walls for trophies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 SMM3G: 2012 - 76 2011 - 64 2010 - 59 RM3G: 2011 - 43 2010 - 37 USPSA MG 2011 - 56 2010 - 49 BRM3G: 2011 - 37 2010 - 22 MGM Ironman: 2011 - 39 2010 - 33 AR15ProAm 2011 - 25 Not dead, just growing slow. Not all who start out in 3gun know they want to shoot open till after a few matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I predict that Open will surge in popularity when the Akdal shotgun has the bugs worked out. There are lots of 3-gunners out there who can't be bothered with all that silly "loading shells by hand" nonsense. Other than the shotgun, there is not much to choose between Open and Tac Scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I predict that Open will surge in popularity when the Akdal shotgun has the bugs worked out. There are lots of 3-gunners out there who can't be bothered with all that silly "loading shells by hand" nonsense. Other than the shotgun, there is not much to choose between Open and Tac Scope. Im one of the early adopters of Akdal but have been a Saiga shooter for a few years. Like the OP I shoot the guns I like and tell me where it fits! I also agree that the open class will grow like crazy when the Akdal gets the mag situation to a point where they are cheap, plentifull and rock solid. Or another mfg steps up with a AR shotgun platform. Open will get crowded in the next couple years I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 No advantage to open? I would think that this would of turned out different if that was fully true: 2012_smm3g_Results_Top_15.pdf JMHO, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Not dead, just growing slow. Not all who start out in 3gun know they want to shoot open till after a few matches Took me a few years, but Im not going back to that 20th century Benelli.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I got forced into Open when I started shooting a Saiga. Took a year to come up with an Open pistol and learn how to shoot it. I have no intention of going back to Tac Ops, ever. I never liked that Tac Ops was more of a shotgun reloading contest than a shooting contest. With more mag fed shotguns becoming available I think Open will continue to grow. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 No advantage to open? I would think that this would of turned out different if that was fully true: 2012_smm3g_Results_Top_15.pdf JMHO, Chuck Do the points results compare across divisions, or are the points only calculated by division results then the points listed for over all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 As a limited and heavy metal shooter, I have nothing but support for those that buck the norm of scope tac. There should be a place for all of us to shoot within reason, and all the open weenies (Like Doug) should be allowed to use the fancy go fast gizmos. Some prefer oysters and some prefer snails. We should fight against the oppression of the one scope tac division. Rise up my brothers in shooting diversity and oppose the evil scope tac white bread mono-divisional trend. Shoot open, shoot heavy, shoot limited, try the divisions out, you just may find that you where not meant to shoot with the pack. Celebrate and promote diversity in shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 No advantage to open? I would think that this would of turned out different if that was fully true: 2012_smm3g_Results_Top_15.pdf JMHO, Chuck Do the points results compare across divisions, or are the points only calculated by division results then the points listed for over all? It looks like they calculated over divisions. Taran had more points in T/S than he had in the combined results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) No advantage to open? I would think that this would of turned out different if that was fully true: 2012_smm3g_Results_Top_15.pdf JMHO, Chuck Only 5 stage wins for open guys, 2 were all shotgun (6, 10) a shocker there, Stage 4 was 10 pistol, 19 shotgun and Stage 11 was 6 pistol and 16 shotgun. The difference is the shotgun. If the rules allowed Tac to have more than 9 at the start the outcome might have been different. Edited April 3, 2012 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 As a limited and heavy metal shooter, I have nothing but support for those that buck the norm of scope tac. There should be a place for all of us to shoot within reason, and all the open weenies (Like Doug) should be allowed to use the fancy go fast gizmos. Some prefer oysters and some prefer snails. We should fight against the oppression of the one scope tac division. Rise up my brothers in shooting diversity and oppose the evil scope tac white bread mono-divisional trend. Shoot open, shoot heavy, shoot limited, try the divisions out, you just may find that you where not meant to shoot with the pack. Celebrate and promote diversity in shooting. The best reason the to shoot in a different division is if you're in the bottom half of open you have to wait for 20 shooters to get your goodie bag off the prize table rather than 100 if you're in the bottom half of tac scope. It also helps beating the traffic jam out of the range. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The best reason the to shoot in a different division is if you're in the bottom half of open you have to wait for 20 shooters to get your goodie bag off the prize table rather than 100 if you're in the bottom half of tac scope. It also helps beating the traffic jam out of the range. LOL. Great point! Shooting TS gear at a match in Open, I was shocked my name was called so soon. If you are in TS, shooting crappy, slap a bi-pod on, get bumped to open, get to leave earlier, maybe even with a better prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 The best reason the to shoot in a different division is if you're in the bottom half of open you have to wait for 20 shooters to get your goodie bag off the prize table rather than 100 if you're in the bottom half of tac scope. It also helps beating the traffic jam out of the range. LOL. Great point! Shooting TS gear at a match in Open, I was shocked my name was called so soon. If you are in TS, shooting crappy, slap a bi-pod on, get bumped to open, get to leave earlier, maybe even with a better prize. you leave earlier, cause there are no prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 As a limited and heavy metal shooter, I have nothing but support for those that buck the norm of scope tac. There should be a place for all of us to shoot within reason, and all the open weenies (Like Doug) should be allowed to use the fancy go fast gizmos. Some prefer oysters and some prefer snails. We should fight against the oppression of the one scope tac division. Rise up my brothers in shooting diversity and oppose the evil scope tac white bread mono-divisional trend. Shoot open, shoot heavy, shoot limited, try the divisions out, you just may find that you where not meant to shoot with the pack. Celebrate and promote diversity in shooting. Right on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 No advantage to open? I would think that this would of turned out different if that was fully true: 2012_smm3g_Results_Top_15.pdf JMHO, Chuck Only 5 stage wins for open guys, 2 were all shotgun (6, 10) a shocker there, Stage 4 was 10 pistol, 19 shotgun and Stage 11 was 6 pistol and 16 shotgun. The difference is the shotgun. If the rules allowed Tac to have more than 9 at the start the outcome might have been different. From just my past year of shooting 3gun, I find that "Bay" type matches cater more to the Tact Optic's crowed. Specially SMM3G, Where 99% of pistol targets were within 15 feet and being full size Metric IPSC targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Campbell Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 While I agree with everything that outerlimits said, the differences between open and TS are disappearing, I will only shoot open, not just for the fancy go fast gizmos, but because I really suck at anything with Iron sights. Its fun for me, to shoot open, and thats all that really matters. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I didn't read all the responses so far .... Just let iron sighted Saigas and Akdals shoot in Limited/Tac Optics. The other two guns are fed with box magazines? Right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If Open is dying or growing slow... it was self-inflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think Open will get bigger and maybe even add other divisions. I was talking with a gentleman at the SMM3G banquet who has shot every SMM3G and plenty of the old SOF matches, he usually shoots Heavy Metal Scoped as irons just don't work so well for him anymore. He proposed the idea of a Heavy Metal Open division and I think it would be a blast. We both said we would shoot it if HMOpen happens. Just trying to figure out some parameters and level of interest for it. The firearms must be .308 or larger for rifle, high cap .45 or larger for handgun and 12ga or larger for shotgun, 10ga anyone? Should it go full blown open across all three guns or still have a slight element of "torture" to it? Such as hi-cap/double stack .45 for handgun, comp allowed, no mag round limit but iron sights only for the handgun.... Or should it be a full blown race gun? Non-speed loader semi-auto tube fed shotguns instead of pump or should it allow a raced out box mag shotgun? Or maybe a red dot allowed on a tac limited style semi shotgun instead, 10 +1 capacity to start? I think the rifle should be .308, 30/06 or bigger, no limits except for no full auto. I'd love to see somebody run something crazy like a BAR on the course and see 50 round drums on AR-308s and on M1As. The main reason for my hesitation in not making all the firearms full blown open across the board is I would like to see people have a chance of being competitive with some of the equipment they may already own without having to buy 3 new guns at 3k+ each for an oddball division. Yes, I know it would be a small division to start but what HM division isn't? What do you think? Would you shoot it? What do you think the limitations, if any, should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 While I agree with everything that outerlimits said, the differences between open and TS are disappearing, I will only shoot open, not just for the fancy go fast gizmos, but because I really suck at anything with Iron sights. Its fun for me, to shoot open, and thats all that really matters. Dave 4 years ago I would have agreed with you. It wasn't unheard of for the top TS shooter to finish better than the top Open shooter. Now that mag fed shotguns are bit more available there are some pretty significant differences between the Divisions. If you get one that runs, it's hard to beat a mag gun. Xrails are also a definite change in the field. Side mounted red dots are much more common on the rifle now. Not a huge deal but I find mine a bit quicker than my Deuck RTS sights. As for the pistol I'm seeing a lot more 4" plates set up as handgun targets. I'm quite a bit quicker trying to hit one at 20 yards with a dot than I am iron sights. The individual match flavor will have a lot to do with how much of a difference there is between divisions. And to answer Butch's opening question...NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 For the OP; No, its not dieing, its actually growing, and getting more exciting with some of the new equipment showing up! For Carbon9; NFW! jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Around here Open is going the way of the dodo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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