US Nationals 2010

[BritinUSA]

I'm glad they are making the stages tougher. For the US Nationals to have meaning, the contest should be tough, it should test all aspects of shooting and make the winner earn it the hard way. Congratulations to all the winners.

[rgkeller]

That was the best Nationals I have ever shot--stage wise. The crew should be commended. Only thing I didn't like was dodging bullets all match long. It was pure luck that there were no serious injuries, and its only a matter of time before there is one. But with the rock content of their range, I'm not sure there is really anything that can be done about it.

Other than move the match to a safer range.

[BritinUSA]

I think the hay bales helped a lot, perhaps they were getting worn down because the ricochets seem to get worse on the final 2 days of the LPR match.

[B.J. Norris]

Video of my match up on

, will process and post some pics on my Facebook page tomorrow. Thanks to all the staff for their hard work, I was worn out enough after only 3 days!

[JorDanO]

So far this was the best Nationals I've been too. OK so last year was my first, but this year blew that out of the water. I loved the stages. They tested a lot of different skills, and had some great props and activators that you would expect at a Nationals. All the stages had some tough shots, even the speed shoots would throw in a target that you had to respect. All the staff was fantastic, everything flowed smoothly, and help came quick if there was a calibration issue or a prop broke. The squads I was on for both matches (26 O/L10) (21 L/P/R) were also great. Everyone helped tape and paint steel. I'll definitely be back next year.

Here is some video from the Open/L10 match

and the L/P/R

Edited October 19, 2010 by JorDanO

[ausshooter]

Does anyone else think that USPSA needs to hire a marketing or event director for the awards ceremonies? All the people talking during the presentation was disrespectful, there was almost no fan fare for winners, and the lack of organization was very apparent. Giving out the wrong trophy to winners??? Come on!

On top of that, the prize table was one of the most disorganized processes I've ever seen at a big match. The process wasn't explained well, and the only reason I got to go to the table at all was because another shooter was looking out for me and called me when they were calling my name. I was staying out of the hallway (as we were told to) until my name was called in the main room.............

I know Michael and the other guys were worn out from three Nationals, but they need to plan for that in advance and make all the shooters proud of their accomplishments, not just the guys who finished high over all.

PS - finishing the prize collection at midnight when the ceremony was supposed to start at 8 was awful, as well. Completely ruined our plans to go out after and celebrate!

Edited October 19, 2010 by ausshooter

[bigbear_98]

Are the Uspsa staff members volunteers or are they paid for their work? I'm not talking RO's, I mean admin.

[BBoyle]

In the video posted by Sandro there appears to be a member of a film crew there. Is there going to be a Nats Video available or was it just a local news crew?

[Sandro]

In the video posted by Sandro there appears to be a member of a film crew there. Is there going to be a Nats Video available or was it just a local news crew?

shooting USA was there, so I assume soon they will air the 2010 Nationals, but it may take a couple of months.

[BritinUSA]

Shooting USA taped the Women's Super Squad on Stage 2, I asked them when it would air and if I recall they said around January.

[pskys2]

After a full day(s) competing or RO'ing and then setting up the Awards/Prizes, that's tough on even the most dedicated.

One option would be to return to the older format of a Man vs Man Shootoff of the top ? on the next day and then have the awards ceremony.

But that's problematic with 3 Nationals (handgun only) and 6 Divisions!

Maybe a poll, or query, of those who have attended the last few Nationals, or future ones, on if they would prefer it as it is now, a race at the end of the match or an extra day in wherever?

Then what would it cost, both in money and manpower, to implement.

Maybe pick 1 of the 3 to try it on next year?

[BritinUSA]

They seem to have the same problem each year. I think part of the problem is that they have to manually scour the final results to determine stage winners etc. That may explain the delays in the start but I am not certain of this. If it is manual perhaps there is a way to automate it.

With regard to the prize table, this is always chaotic. I think there are several ways to possibly address the issue.

Use a screen projector or TV to show the final results on a big screen so everyone can see it without crowding a small printout taped to the wall. Big screen could be used to show videos/photos of the match while we wait for the show to begin.

As they go down the list , highlight it on the screen and announce it in the main hall (not in the corridor). When your name is called then go to the prize table queue in the hallway, otherwise, wait in the main hall.

It was impossible to hear anything in the corridor and it makes us look like an unseemly rabble to the other guests at the hotel.

Perhaps what is needed is a separate crew to organise the prize distribution so that the same people are not working all various aspects of the match at the same time, running a competition this size is a tough job and perhaps they need more volunteers to take over the non-shooting related activities.

[CAB33]

Best match I have ever been to!

Stages

Staff

Weather/Location

Loved it.

[Jaxshooter]

Perhaps the employees that are paid by the USPSA should get thier priorities inorder to have the awards ceremony run professionally.

[bill d]

Perhaps the employees that are paid by the USPSA should get thier priorities inorder to have the awards ceremony run professionally.

...and the squad lists, and the published stages, and........

[ausshooter]

This topic needs to be put on the next national board meeting list.

[joecichlid]

This topic needs to be put on the next national board meeting list.

+1 I second this motion.

Joe W.

[mactiger]

Here are a few points of information for you:

1) The USPSA president sets the dates and format for Nationals. We (the Nationals team) work within those dates. We are always pressed for time, but keep in mind that this tight schedule has come about as a result of member pressure to shoot more in less days and save money/travel/vacation and still attend a Nationals.

2) Awards are also at the mercy of the president, because he's the one who shows up with the final results. They are produced in a semi-automated fashion, I believe. It still takes a while. There is a one-hour protest time that must be honored before anyone can finalize results. Couple that with a late finish, and you have late awards.

3) The people who do prizes and awards need to eat and clean themselves up. That takes a little time. There is also time built in there for the shooters to do the same.

4) No professional firm is going to make a bunch of rude competitors sit down and shut up--that's just common courtesy. Sorry, but that's how it is.

5) I like Paul's idea about the projected results. We can see if the hotel will work with us on that. It seems fairly simple, and we'll think about it. In fact, Paul Hyland provided some good, constructive criticism. Thanks, Paul.

6) It takes a lot of time and effort to produce a Nationals, especially when you consider that there are many different people working on them. Stages have to be designed, drawn, critiqued, etc. If we publish them really early, they'll probably not be right, and there is no directive to publish them at all. Likewise with squadding--slots take time to send, resend, etc. The waiting list is another area that takes a lot of time and effort. You can blame all that on the slot system itself, but that's what we are working with. Nobody is obligated to publish squad lists at all. It's done as a courtesy. And, before you go hollering about self squadding saving all the headache, trust me, it doesn't. It may be possible to tweak the database and EZWS to make them fit, but even so, it would have to be "here's your spot, take it or leave it and don't call us about it". We made over 100 squad changes and adjustments prior to the match. If we go to self squadding and you don't get in the one you want, too bad. (The first time they tried self squadding, it was the same thing--people that didn't get into the squad they wanted called and whined.) You can't have it both ways.

7) Prizes take a while because it takes forever for some people to pick.

Lastly, there are a lot of people on here bitching that have never raised their hand for Nationals. Make some suggestions to fix the issues you perceive to be problematic, or quit bitching.

[BritinUSA]

5) I like Paul's idea about the projected results. We can see if the hotel will work with us on that. It seems fairly simple, and we'll think about it. In fact, Paul Hyland provided some good, constructive criticism. Thanks, Paul.

You're welcome, hope you're feeling better.

7) Prizes take a while because it takes forever for some people to pick.

+1 on this, I watched a few people going up and down that line numerous times. I'll admit that by the time I usually get to the prize table, the only things left are a bore-snake and a hat. But if a quick scan doesn't net you anything that fits your gun then just pick something that you can either sell or gift to someone. I mean seriously, its not like there's a check for $10,000 tucked away somewhere on there. Pick something and move on.

By the way; I understand that USPSA has already picked out your mode of transport for 2011, just so you'll be safe on the range...

[mactiger]

I can use my Bubble wrap and duct tape helmet, too! :cheers:

[dr2e]

Lastly, there are a lot of people on here bitching that have never raised their hand for Nationals. Make some suggestions to fix the issues you perceive to be problematic, or quit bitching.

geez mac, tell us how you really feel...

(well said! )

[DirtDiver]

First let me make it perfectly clear, so that everyone does not think I am displease with the volunteer help….I am NOT.

My displeasure with the 2010 Open/L10 National does not lie with the volunteer help or stage staff/CRO's or RO….it lies with the USPSA paid staff. This was my first time at a USPSA National event. Maybe my expectations of what I believed a USPSA National event should be and the actual USPSA experience was terrible. Now I will preference this by saying that the volunteer part, CRO, RO and volunteer staff did a great job. All the stages had knowledge, very courteous, good humored people looking only to make my shooting experience great.

I cannot say that regarding the USPSA match staff. These are the USPSA employee(s) paid staff. It is not that they are uncaring or rude, but they all say about the same thing when a problem arises is that they only have so much time. My response is then become better organized, hire part-time staff, make changes that accommodate your membership……this event happens every year.

I get the direct impression that USPSA exists to serve the GM level shooter. I found the awards ceremony so thrown together and certainly not a pleasure for the average shooter.

For a budget of about $220,000 (800 shooters x $275) I just did not see this great event. At shooter registration I received the same plastic bag of catalogs and decals that you get at every level II match…. a plastic name tag and white logo T-shirt. Now I understand that funds need to be allocated for stage props but this cost is distributed between Multi-Gun, and Handgun Nationals, CRO and RO staff for hotels and meals etc., but the average shoot who pays the highest single entry fee gets no welcome reception, any unique mementos (plastic name tag), or a simple awards dinner, even if it's just a sit down buffet, at a squad table for each squad, that consists of chicken wings and soft drinks with a cash bar.

I was very disappointed that the big July 20 match packets "Confirmation Packets delayed slightly" consisted of three pieces of paper and an advertisement for NASCAR racing, all dated in July. This got mailed in late September…what a joke. The squad list that was posted a week before the match and gave you less than 24 hours to make a change is just unwarranted when you do this same thing year after year. If USPSA has problems with squadding large number, then fix this issue, update the program, hire a computer programmer to allow the squadding program to accommodate the large numbers…. just fix it. These issues return each year.

With this type of money the prize table for the average shooter is fair at best. By the time I waited, close to midnight, I finally left and went to my room. If you're not in the top 75 to 100 the prizes are only ordinary.

My feelings are reflected by many shooters who voice displeasure with the paid USPSA staff which says we are just too busy. Then hire part-time help, get an event coordinator or improve because the same thing will happen again in eleven months.

I'm not unhappy with the sport or the volunteers only paid management for not truly representing the majority of the shooters. That is not to say that the best or top shooters don't deserve and have earned the lime light, but give reasonable recognition to the lower level shooters. When USPSA has a National event it should be the best, something to remember and want to strive to attend. Many, including myself, question whether the expense, travel time and effort are worth the reward of an average USPSA National Handgun event.

My last concern shared by many shooters is the yearly location of the Nationals; do they ever come to the East Coast? The National rumor is that the National's will be in Las Vegas next year but moved up 6 weeks earlier to accommodate the World Shoot.

The entire membership needs to be served by its employed and elected staff.

If you feel that I'm off base please redirect my frustration.

[ima45dv8]

My displeasure with the 2010 Open/L10 National does not lie with the volunteer help or stage staff/CRO's or RO….it lies with the USPSA paid staff.

{snip}

For a budget of about $220,000 (800 shooters x $275) I just did not see this great event. At shooter registration I received the same plastic bag of catalogs and decals that you get at every level II match…. a plastic name tag and white logo T-shirt.

{snip}

Many, including myself, question whether the expense, travel time and effort are worth the reward of an average USPSA National Handgun event.

I had a long response written about my experiences with those 'paid staff' last year, but good manners and Forum Guidelines prevent me from posting it here.

[LChico]

My displeasure with the 2010 Open/L10 National does not lie with the volunteer help or stage staff/CRO's or RO….it lies with the USPSA paid staff.

{snip}

For a budget of about $220,000 (800 shooters x $275) I just did not see this great event. At shooter registration I received the same plastic bag of catalogs and decals that you get at every level II match…. a plastic name tag and white logo T-shirt.

{snip}

As someone who has organized a sizable number of major matches, I have to point out a few adjustments to your numbers. Not all 800 shooters paid a match fee. Staff who worked one match were allowed to shoot the other for free. Also, sponsored shooters typically have their fee covered by a percentage of the merchandise that is donated to the prize table. The donated prizes are great (and much thanks to the generous sponsors who support our sport) but you cannot take gun parts to Home Depot to purchase paint. You cannot cover your staff lodging by offering the hotel 10 gun bags. The reality is that the actual budget available is significantly lower than many competitors realize.

The biggest match expenses are not the props you mentioned, but the volunteer staff you complimented. Lodging, travel and food for staff are easily the biggest expenses. Closely behind those expenses are range rental & printed materials (scoresheets & match booklets).

A large banquet room will set you back at least $1200 for a few hours. Food (even a budget buffet) will run around $20 to $25 per person. That does not include the set-up deposit. Sound systems & cash bars will also cost you. IPSC matches in other countries typically have more elaborate awards ceremonies along the lines you describe. Entry fees start around $325 to $350 for those events. Having run the IPSC Pan American Shotgun match this summer, I can tell you that extra time required & the price are both issues with most US shooters.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[Nolan]

My compliments to all the USPSA staff who produced an excellent pair of national events. I certainly picked the wrong matches to attend completely unprepared!

As to the prize table complaints, having the results posted to the web so quickly really helped during the chaos. I was able to access the results via my cell phone and only had to watch/listen for the shooters who had finished just ahead of me which helped since I could hardly hear anything over the general hubbub.

I would suggest the prize table crews use a pair of smart phones, a pair of laptops, or a combination of both to notify the competitors when it is their turn at the table.

At match sign up each competitor provides their cell phone number which then can be entered into the smart phone. Then using a prerecorded message, the prize table crew uses the phone list to call each competitor, one or two at a time, when its their turn. As they enter the prize room the next competitor is called.

Taking a page from Phil Strader (the GM of prize table organization) each prize bundle is numbered and it's details posted to the web plus handed out in hardcopy. Then as each competitor picks a prize, they check out at the exit and the number of their prize is removed from the list which is then immediately updated to the web or projected on the wall using a digital projector.

Nolan