dirty whiteboy Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) ===============-----------========== Edited October 30, 2010 by dirty whiteboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Where exactly does that cash payout come from? Since Nationals is run pretty close to budget. Unless you think sponsors would rather just give us cash instead of their product. Good luck with that. I much rather have some JB bore paste or Brownells friction defense oil! Other companies PAY to advertise, why can't the firearms industry? Do you think the people who attend a Golf match pay enough to award a million dollars to the winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Where exactly does that cash payout come from? Since Nationals is run pretty close to budget. Unless you think sponsors would rather just give us cash instead of their product. Good luck with that. I much rather have some JB bore paste or Brownells friction defense oil! Other companies PAY to advertise, why can't the firearms industry? Do you think the people who attend a Golf match pay enough to award a million dollars to the winner? Take your pick, you can have a company "PAY" in merchandise or "PAY" in cash for the advertising they get from the match... When you take your turn as a prize coordinator get back to us with how many cash donations you're able to drum up Until then I guess we could work real hard to squeeze more money out of those incredibly lucrative TV contracts USPSA is able to drum up since we have millions of viewers every weekend of the season on National TV...oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 If this were a spectator sport or tv friendly, different story. Too little ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Where exactly does that cash payout come from? Since Nationals is run pretty close to budget. Unless you think sponsors would rather just give us cash instead of their product. Good luck with that. I much rather have some JB bore paste or Brownells friction defense oil! Other companies PAY to advertise, why can't the firearms industry? Do you think the people who attend a Golf match pay enough to award a million dollars to the winner? How many people nationally golf or watch golf on TV. How many shoot USPSA or watch USPSA on TV. We can compare ourselve to Golf, or Football, or NASCAR, but the bottom line is USPSA doesn't have the market draw that mainstream sports do. So comparing their sponsorships to ours is about as relevant as saying the government pays for NASA so people can go into space so they should pay for USPSA because our shooting is out of this world. On a side note, there are sports that have large cash contributions from sponsors. The biggest that comes to mind is the Bianchi Cup. They manage to get sponsors to donate large sums of cash to that match. But that is based on the NRA's backing, which has millions of members that will see that sponsorship, and history. Bianchi has always been cash sponsorship and that's what they stuck with. USPSA has not and it would require a change. Another AD suggested this year going to a cash sponsorship only as opposed to product for Nationals. I spoke to several friends in the industry that are major sponsors for USPSA. Not one said they would give USPSA cash instead of product. Several, all but one, said it would be the end of their sponsorship of the USPSA Nationals. It's not a matter of whether you'd like a prize table or something else. It's whether you want a prize table or nothing. And the difference in match without a prize table would be minimal, if any at all. Maybe $10.00 a shooter? USPSA just doesn't buy that much for the Nationals prize table. It's almost all donated. The price difference would come from not having to rent the room for the prize distribution. As far as a cash payback, well we can do that, but the match fee is going up and the cash is going to come out of that. That literally would be a case of C and D class shooters subsidizing GM's. I'd fight tooth and nail against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 if you offered a TehcWear type version of the match shirt with all the sponsors I would absolutly buy one of those. Just an idea. +1!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) Where exactly does that cash payout come from? Since Nationals is run pretty close to budget. Unless you think sponsors would rather just give us cash instead of their product. Good luck with that. I much rather have some JB bore paste or Brownells friction defense oil! Other companies PAY to advertise, why can't the firearms industry? Do you think the people who attend a Golf match pay enough to award a million dollars to the winner? How many people nationally golf or watch golf on TV. How many shoot USPSA or watch USPSA on TV. We can compare ourselve to Golf, or Football, or NASCAR, but the bottom line is USPSA doesn't have the market draw that mainstream sports do. So comparing their sponsorships to ours is about as relevant as saying the government pays for NASA so people can go into space so they should pay for USPSA because our shooting is out of this world. On a side note, there are sports that have large cash contributions from sponsors. The biggest that comes to mind is the Bianchi Cup. They manage to get sponsors to donate large sums of cash to that match. But that is based on the NRA's backing, which has millions of members that will see that sponsorship, and history. Bianchi has always been cash sponsorship and that's what they stuck with. USPSA has not and it would require a change. Another AD suggested this year going to a cash sponsorship only as opposed to product for Nationals. I spoke to several friends in the industry that are major sponsors for USPSA. Not one said they would give USPSA cash instead of product. Several, all but one, said it would be the end of their sponsorship of the USPSA Nationals. It's not a matter of whether you'd like a prize table or something else. It's whether you want a prize table or nothing. And the difference in match without a prize table would be minimal, if any at all. Maybe $10.00 a shooter? USPSA just doesn't buy that much for the Nationals prize table. It's almost all donated. The price difference would come from not having to rent the room for the prize distribution. As far as a cash payback, well we can do that, but the match fee is going up and the cash is going to come out of that. That literally would be a case of C and D class shooters subsidizing GM's. I'd fight tooth and nail against that. 3 Gun Nation!??! Is three gun somehow more TV friendly than uspsa? It can be done, if it is decided that the shooters deserve more. Cars driving around in a circle probably didn't excite too many people once upon a time!! And you are assuming only uspsa members would watch on TV. Like thinking only football players watch football. Edited October 30, 2010 by dirty whiteboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 3 Gun Nation!??! Is three gun somehow more TV friendly than uspsa? It can be done, if it is decided that the shooters deserve more. Cars driving around in a circle probably didn't excite too many people once upon a time!! And you are assuming only uspsa members would watch on TV. Like thinking only football players watch football. Looks like you have the answers....make it happen There certainly can be improvements made, most notably in giving more back to the sponsors of our sport for the expenditure and efforts they do make at supporting us. This may open some doors. I will tell you this, I have had very little exposure with the sponsors and and vendors in our sport, but what experience I have had indicates to me that your ideas are at best unrealistic. It would be my suggestion to get involved with a major match on the prize/awards/sponsorship end of things. It will most assuredly give you some avenues to develop your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 There certainly can be improvements made, most notably in giving more back to the sponsors of our sport for the expenditure and efforts they do make at supporting us. Ugh...don't we give them a lot of support now? I'm pretty sure that everything that we purchase for <insert shooting sport here> came from a "sponsor" of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I am sorry I came to this posting late. From an organizational development standpoint there are areas for improvement. Edited October 31, 2010 by pjb45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 There certainly can be improvements made, most notably in giving more back to the sponsors of our sport for the expenditure and efforts they do make at supporting us. Ugh...don't we give them a lot of support now? I'm pretty sure that everything that we purchase for <insert shooting sport here> came from a "sponsor" of the sport. Can you quantify that support for me? The sponsors can. Yes we buy their products, however there is a practical limit as to how much they can give. There are 2 National Championships, 8 Area Matches, at least a dozen or more large regional matches, along with way too many to count smaller matches. That is only for USPSA Pistol, if you throw in IDPA, 3 Gun matches, Steel...etc etc. you might start to see that the sponsors are quite generous. As an example on the large vendor level, exactly how many M&P pistols did USPSA members buy last year versus how many M&P pistols did S&W give away as prizes to USPSA matches?? Now the downside. Given the nature of most matches, the staff is volunteer and there are many fires to put out, and even with the greatest effort the return for sponsors sometimes falls short. At times vendor logos are forgotten in match booklets, mention is forgotten at award ceremonies, banner placement is overlooked, etc etc. Bottom line we as participants of the sport can only expect so many freebies from the vendors in relation to the portion of their market share we represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 There certainly can be improvements made, most notably in giving more back to the sponsors of our sport for the expenditure and efforts they do make at supporting us. Ugh...don't we give them a lot of support now? I'm pretty sure that everything that we purchase for <insert shooting sport here> came from a "sponsor" of the sport. Yes, damn those greedy sponsors. All they do is give give give and now we're supposed to support them somehow too. What more do they expect of us!! I'm pretty sure that not everything you bought was purchased from a sponsor. Many shoot Kimbers, which while Kimber does donate quite a bit to other events, USA Shooting and NRA in particular, they don't give anything to USPSA. Do the primers you use come from a sponsor, does the powder. How about your range bag, holsters, belt, shoes, etc. I do my best to only buy from sponsors, but there are somethings I get stuck with having to get from a non-sponsor. But here is the big part, the simple part of what you can do to support sponsors. Tell them. I make it a point when I buy something from a sponsor to tell them that's why I'm buying it. Even if I didn't receive anything from them specifically, or if I'm actually using my own money. Some companies are one person shows and you telling that person who makes the decision about sponsorship can have a tremendous effect on which, if any matches they'll sponsor next year. If it's a company with a lot of people, like Smith & Wesson. Tell as many people as you can about how appreciative you are. Most companies at best break even because of the sponsorship they give, many lose money. Somebody else brought up 3 Gun Nation. I know FNH has spent about 1/2 million dollars on 3 Gun this year. Are they going to sell enough SCAR rifles, FNH Shotguns, FN-X pistols to recoup that investment? If you think they will to the couple thousand people who participate in three gun, guess again. When is the last time you thanked a sponsor. When is the last time you told them you made your purchasing decision based on that sponsorship. Because buying a gun from Smith & Wesson that you were going to buy anyway is not support. Unless they know, it might as well not have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 There certainly can be improvements made, most notably in giving more back to the sponsors of our sport for the expenditure and efforts they do make at supporting us. Ugh...don't we give them a lot of support now? I'm pretty sure that everything that we purchase for <insert shooting sport here> came from a "sponsor" of the sport. Yes, damn those greedy sponsors. All they do is give give give and now we're supposed to support them somehow too. What more do they expect of us!! I'm pretty sure that not everything you bought was purchased from a sponsor. Many shoot Kimbers, which while Kimber does donate quite a bit to other events, USA Shooting and NRA in particular, they don't give anything to USPSA. Do the primers you use come from a sponsor, does the powder. How about your range bag, holsters, belt, shoes, etc. I do my best to only buy from sponsors, but there are somethings I get stuck with having to get from a non-sponsor. But here is the big part, the simple part of what you can do to support sponsors. Tell them. I make it a point when I buy something from a sponsor to tell them that's why I'm buying it. Even if I didn't receive anything from them specifically, or if I'm actually using my own money. Some companies are one person shows and you telling that person who makes the decision about sponsorship can have a tremendous effect on which, if any matches they'll sponsor next year. If it's a company with a lot of people, like Smith & Wesson. Tell as many people as you can about how appreciative you are. Most companies at best break even because of the sponsorship they give, many lose money. Somebody else brought up 3 Gun Nation. I know FNH has spent about 1/2 million dollars on 3 Gun this year. Are they going to sell enough SCAR rifles, FNH Shotguns, FN-X pistols to recoup that investment? If you think they will to the couple thousand people who participate in three gun, guess again. When is the last time you thanked a sponsor. When is the last time you told them you made your purchasing decision based on that sponsorship. Because buying a gun from Smith & Wesson that you were going to buy anyway is not support. Unless they know, it might as well not have happened. Each and everytime that I get the opportunity. We see some of these people/companies at the matches. Nearly every sponsor in the match book has an e-mail address. It only takes a few hours to send a generic "thank you" to each of them. Most of them will even reply to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 And it wouldn't surprise me if the email you send is the only one they receive. Very few people do this. It's amazing the good will that can be generated from a handful of quick emails. Sponsors really don't want much, but throwing product into a black hole with no idea if anyone even receives it burns them out quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 It has long seemed to me that the entire concept of Prize Tables has lost its usefulness. The time and effort to acquire prizes and set up the distribution seems far out of whack with the benefit to the match. I wonder how many match directors have been burned out before their time by the demands of begging for and/or paying for prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 It has long seemed to me that the entire concept of Prize Tables has lost its usefulness. The time and effort to acquire prizes and set up the distribution seems far out of whack with the benefit to the match. I wonder how many match directors have been burned out before their time by the demands of begging for and/or paying for prizes. I was in charge of the prize table for the 2007 Michigan IDPA Championship. I know the prize format is completely diffent from USPSA, but the method for gathering the prizes is much the same. It was very time consuming and difficult. The prizes that were gathered were given to the staff. Shooters don't come to these matches for the prizes. They come for the challenge and if they are good enough that day, they will leave with a trophy. Of the things that are typically remembered or discussed are : what was offered for lunch and stage design (good and bad, but mostly bad ). Eliminate the prize table for the competitors and only collect enough "prizes" for the staff. That should make things easier for both the sponsors and the organizing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Spencer Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I am all for eliminating the prize table. All though I do like raffle tickets for large items, such as firearms. With the proceeds going to charitable groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Yeah, that's me: Knevel Boudreaux. I actually made it over a couple of skinny staffers, too, but they weren't spooning. Actually, I missed the last day due to being thrown out of my golf cart and smacking my head. Troy Have no fear, folks. Our engineers are working feverishly to complete the finishing touches on TroyMobile2011. **Please note this is NOT the finished product. They still have to affix the training wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Things that I would change with regard to prizes at Nationals: Get rid of the trophies at Nationals and use high quality medals instead, Gold, Silver and Bronze for the top three in each division/class Gold, Silver and Bronze medals for the categories, Women, Senior, Juniors If you have a prize table (as sponsors like to donate items rather than cash) then;Each competitor gets a raffle ticket free for the regular items (<$200) Allow competitors to buy raffle tickets for the big items (guns etc or a value over $200) Each member of Range Staff gets a free raffle ticket for both regular and high value items at no cost to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Have no fear, folks. Our engineers are working feverishly to complete the finishing touches on TroyMobile2011. **Please note this is NOT the finished product. They still have to affix the training wheels. That's a lot of glass. Are you sure it is Troy-Proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Things that I would change with regard to prizes at Nationals: Get rid of the trophies at Nationals and use high quality medals instead, Gold, Silver and Bronze for the top three in each division/class Gold, Silver and Bronze medals for the categories, Women, Senior, Juniors If you have a prize table (as sponsors like to donate items rather than cash) then;Each competitor gets a raffle ticket free for the regular items (<$200) Allow competitors to buy raffle tickets for the big items (guns etc or a value over $200) Each member of Range Staff gets a free raffle ticket for both regular and high value items at no cost to them And Super Seniors be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 And Super Seniors be damned. A little touchy this morning are we ? You assume a slight against super seniors when it was just a typo ? Allow me to change the bullet point... Gold, Silver and Bronze medals for the categories. Happy now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhop Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 this talk about the prize table is ridiculous, since when do we want to reward mediocrity and not reward those that put in the time and effort to perform good, i think the prize table could be improved by the list like the pro-am use's, post it on-line and then people can print it out if they want to view it and announce what number on the list is taken that way competitors know what is left on the table when they get in there, i like the trophies and think that they should be kept in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 (edited) the prize table has taken the focus of the event from the match to the prize table. How many sponsors actually sponsor something used, and or for the match and not just for the prize table? Bring the focus to the match and not what happens after the match. Shooters Connection and CED, Black Bullets and MGM are these types of sponsors(the good guys). They give to the match, items needed for the match, I don"t consider a gift certificate for a %discount to be sponsorship. nor the drink holder. As someone who has gone hat in hand, as others use the term, I know what it takes and Spent 80% of my prematch time working for stuff to give away, my time would have been better spent tweeking stages, arranging vendors, working on match issues. Edited November 1, 2010 by shootingchef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 And Super Seniors be damned. A little touchy this morning are we ? You assume a slight against super seniors when it was just a typo ? Allow me to change the bullet point... Gold, Silver and Bronze medals for the categories. Happy now ? I intend to sulk for two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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