DQ's at nationals

[rooster]

Was just looking at the ss match results and noticed there were about 16 DQ's. That seems to be an extraordinaly high number. Can anybody give an run down on what was going on.

[Corey]

11 in 2014 and 10 in 2015. Not abnormally high, but apparently a couple more people had trouble this year than the previous. Seems like a lot at first, but out of 350 shooters, its not that high. I haven't shot it in a few years, but its always a very technical match.

[Gary Stevens]

We lost several on my stage due to a variety of reasons. Some due to not applying the safety when they holstered their pistol. One for using an unmarked table on the opposite side of the range as a safety table and doing gun in hand things. One for being outside the designated safety area while doing gun in hand things.

I heard of others for sweeping their hands and 180 violations but I don't have first hand knowledge of them.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Gary Stevens

[Trent1k1]

4% DQs seems about average.

Need to ask yourself what caused the DQs. There are normally 3 things.

1. Shooters-inexperience, or inexperience at a higher level match

2. Stage Design-lots of traps like 180 or sweeping

3. RO's.-are they enforcing the rules, or 'looking for' things to DQ shooters over.

I wasn't there so have no idea.

[Gary Stevens]

4% DQs seems about average.

Need to ask yourself what caused the DQs. There are normally 3 things.

1. Shooters-inexperience, or inexperience at a higher level match

2. Stage Design-lots of traps like 180 or sweeping

3. RO's.-are they enforcing the rules, or 'looking for' things to DQ shooters over.

I wasn't there so have no idea.

I ran the standards so not a tricky stage to shoot. I guess I would take some issue with your number 3 point. Yes we look for things, not to DQ folks, but they are the rules, and most are safety issues. If anyone takes pleasure in issuing a DQ or is trying to be the DQ King/Queen I don't want anything to do with them.

[Trent1k1]

I'm saying that as a general rule, those are usually the 3 items that cause DQ's.

I'm not getting in to RO bashing. I wasn't there and you were only on 1 stage, so you also can't comment on what happened on other stages with accuracy.

My response was to the OP. It sucks to be DQ'd, but less than 5% DQ's is about where it should probably be for a match.

[mach1soldier]

The door on stage 1 got a lot of people, including me. I should have played it safe and didn't. Live and learn

[George Jones]

I usually consider 2% to be reasonable. Anything beyond that, I look for the same (possible) reasons as Trent, with the first two being the most common.

[TISCHLJ]

Sometimes, when shooters,are given lax rules at local level 1 matches bad habits manifest themselves. When those shooters get to a major match, and penalties are applied accordingly, they learn the error of their ways...this is why the USPSA rules must be applied consistently across the board at all matches...

[TISCHLJ]

To be more specific. .. finger in trigger guard while reloading or moving...180 violations....prob most common...

[ano]

It would be so much nicer to RO if people actually gave a f*#k and got a grip and trained properly, we had a guy doing a 90+ degree reload on left side with a 20-30 degree safety angle on left side as there was another stage there

Why on you would want to move the gun off target by a mile just to DQ yourself on a bad/slow/unsafe reload is weird.

Also why do you want the finger on the trigger during a reload? sounds pretty bad, we had 2DQ's on AD during reloads last week.

Some stages are supertight on angles, is it ideal? noop, but its idendtical for everyone, just make a stageplan that doesnt have you point your gun backwards at targets to save time.

I hate DQ'ing guys, but some of the shit they do is just unsafe and bad!

We had a close to 10% DQ rate recently at a match, reason was unexperienced shooters, running past the targets, then trying to engage at a 110-120ish when it was a 90 angle... trouble is, that IS unsafe, and yes, you could build around it, but that would have taken so much from that stage in perticular (the one I posted btw on my new superduperthread)

Edited May 10, 2016 by ano

[Gary Stevens]

Sometimes, when shooters,are given lax rules at local level 1 matches bad habits manifest themselves. When those shooters get to a major match, and penalties are applied accordingly, they learn the error of their ways...this is why the USPSA rules must be applied consistently across the board at all matches...

THIS

[JON]

I worked stage 1 and all of the DQ's were because of the door. Everyone of them opened the door but it did not go as planned, hand slipped off the door, opened it too hard and it bounced back at them or the timing was off and in and attempt to avoid the door they broke the 180 bringing the gun back to the right.

One way to help eliminate the problem would have been a bigger shooting box at the start position.

[JayWord]

A number of the DQs at the SS/REV Nationals were unusual or strange.

A shooter at the make ready had a snap cap come out of the gun.

Sweeping hands while staging/placing ammo on the table directly in front of loaded pistol.

Sweeping hand on holstering due to bad technique.

Sweeping hand and breaking 180 on reloading in the revolver match. Competitor was using a snubby and clearly got his hand over the muzzle as he also broke 180.

The two safety area violations are rare but not unheard of. The safety areas at PASA are very well marked and fairly large.

Holstering or placing loaded gun on table with safety off. (I think this may be due to a number of shooters in this match not being 1911 SS primary shooters, most production guns do not have thumb safeties.)

And then the usual suspects that will occur on any large competitive match where shooters are pushing the envelope.

Several AD's during either reloading and into a wall or over the berm.

And the usual 180 violations, several on stage 1 and another on another stage. The funny thing is there were no 180 violations during the revolver match on stage 1. All that really changed was the hand position on start. Are revolver shooters safer than bottom feeders??

I hate DQs at anytime, but ultimately in order to keep our sport safe we must have strict safety rules and be willing to enforce them if violated.

Nobody that works the SS/REV Match is a DQ king/queen or RN. We try to follow the golden rule as expressed by Troy. DBAD.

Jay Worden- SS/REV RM.

[Hi-Power Jack]

The snap cap is a new one on me ...

Why is that a DQ?

[ChuckS]

The snap cap is a new one on me ...

Why is that a DQ?

10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the Range Officer.

Loaded Firearm ................A firearm having a live round, empty case or dummy round in the chamber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a magazine inserted in the firearm.

[RJH]

What Jay, you mean to tell me that all the shooters violated a safety rule, and the DQ's were not the result of range Nazi Ro's just being jackasses? I don't believe it.

That was obviously a joke, in case someone's sarcasm meter was not working:-) What is not a joke is the fact that many shooters show up to matches, especially majors without reading/knowing the rulebook, and then other shooters think that there is a high number of DQs, and automatically assume that the ROs are at fault. It always surprises me how many shooters "know" the rulebook, but have never read it, and I am talking people who have been around a long time.

[ano]

Its pretty sad that something so basic as a table starts results in DQs, we have them all the time, people forgetting to decock mostly

Yes, guys "knowing" the rulebook is nothing new

good posts jay and rjh

[Trent1k1]

Interesting comment Jay about the Revolver shooters not DQ-ing as much just by slightly changing the start position.

Many of the same people shot S/S prior to shooting revolver, but obviously not all. Something for Stage Designers and RO's to keep in mind for their stages.

My "favorite" DQ, if there is such a thing, is a dropped, loaded gun. No one argues that call. Can't blame anyone else.

[mwx40x40]

What Jay, you mean to tell me that all the shooters violated a safety rule, and the DQ's were not the result of range Nazi Ro's just being jackasses? I don't believe it.

That was obviously a joke, in case someone's sarcasm meter was not working:-) What is not a joke is the fact that many shooters show up to matches, especially majors without reading/knowing the rulebook, and then other shooters think that there is a high number of DQs, and automatically assume that the ROs are at fault. It always surprises me how many shooters "know" the rulebook, but have never read it, and I am talking people who have been around a long time.

This why if you are going to get into the game enough to shoot Majors, by expensive guns and gear , shoot thousands of rounds in practice,etc. you should also invest the time and energy in taking an RO class. This will give you an in depth study of rules and new found respect for ROs

[Sarge]

The snap cap is a new one on me ...

Why is that a DQ?

Jack, you need a rule book in the bathroom like I have. I wear rule books out by reading them so much and still miss the occasional odd ball rule.

I had to DQ a guy at a major once for ejecting a snap cap in a safe area. Kind of a double whammy.

[bret]

My "favorite" DQ, if there is such a thing, is a dropped, loaded gun. No one argues that call. Can't blame anyone else.

Some will argue what a dropped gun is.

[jrswanson1]

What's the definition of "is"?

[pkm]

My "favorite" DQ, if there is such a thing, is a dropped, loaded gun. No one argues that call. Can't blame anyone else.

Some will argue what a dropped gun is.

Yea, some people forget that "loss of control" part.

[cnote]

basically lost control, does not have to hit the ground