kk4364 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 That is way flat! I would think that the weak hand finger in front of the guard helps! It is comfortable for me thats why I grip like that Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk4364 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Another good video kneelingatlas looked about the same Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk4364 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Nice video garmil Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk4364 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Hard to tell because of distance but that gun doesn't look like its rising much at all garmill! I wonder how much it is actually rising. You need a close up like kneelingatlas. Im just used to shooting this way Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yeah I need a better camera and location for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think how the dot returns is more important then how flat the gun is. I shot three different open guns today. The one I liked the best had the dot return to zero the cleanest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 AWL, how much is that result a function of the shooter's influence on the gun vs the gun itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I use a heavily modified XdM in Open, and use the front of the guard in combination with a "gaspedal" type thumb rest. I am sort of 'pinching', by which I mean that my index finger and thumb form a squeeze between the front of the trigger guard and the thumb rest. Obviously being a striker-fired gun with a 7-port comp and a 14lb recoil spring it CAN'T track as flat as a well-tuned 2011, but the dot never leaves the glass and returns to the middle of the window quickly after each shot. A friend of mine went to a TPC class, and when he got back he showed me how my grip was all wrong, and I would have better control and faster recovery using the thumb forward grip that is so popular with the limited guys. Well, let me tell you. My scores went to hell. I couldn't find my dot after each shot, my fast pairs went every-which-way on the second shot, it just wouldn't work with my setup. Every setup is different. Barrel length. Comp design. Powder choice. Bullet weight. Hand size. Grip strength. Barrel weight vs slide weight. Thumbrest position and angle. Spring arrangement and balance. The list is endless. The PERFECT setup on a 5" 2011 with a 5 chamber and popple holes and a .200 stroke shooting 115s might be useless on an unstroked CZ launching 124s. The trick is finding enough time to play the variables and test your setup in a scientific fashion until you find the hot ticket for you. Then 3 years later whenyou have a Gorilla Grip, you will have to tweak it to make it right again. To me, half the fun of competing is the tweaking in the off-season Edited November 20, 2015 by openclassterror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 AWL, how much is that result a function of the shooter's influence on the gun vs the gun itself? I would say the shooter does influence the gun. I shot three different set ups and found one to be quite a bit better then the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk4364 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Absolutely I agree AWLAZS I would say that the shooter makes a huge difference Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staudacher Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 A lot of interesting video and info in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTP_Shooting_Sports Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I have been watching all these comp testing threads with great interest. It appears to me, that the majority of the muzzle flip is due to the slide hitting the frame during recoil. The actual difference between comps seems very small. With that being said, wouldn't it be more beneficial to concentrate on limiting the impact force against the frame and/or modifying/improving your grip to control that upward movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I have been watching all these comp testing threads with great interest. It appears to me, that the majority of the muzzle flip is due to the slide hitting the frame during recoil. The actual difference between comps seems very small. With that being said, wouldn't it be more beneficial to concentrate on limiting the impact force against the frame and/or modifying/improving your grip to control that upward movement?There are bigger differences in comps than you probably realize. Do you shoot Open? Open Major in particular? As far as the frame and slide collision, you are correct. We do a lot of spring testing on our Open guns. At least I do. Light springs are the ticket. Heavier spring MAY reduce the rearward collision speed but will increase the forward speed of the slide causing even more movement. Since we have kind of concluded that PREDICTABLE dot movement is key it stands to reason we want to find the happy medium for slide travel and velocity. Dots are going to move, no question. Getting them to move as little as possible and predictably is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTP_Shooting_Sports Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) I have been watching all these comp testing threads with great interest. It appears to me, that the majority of the muzzle flip is due to the slide hitting the frame during recoil. The actual difference between comps seems very small. With that being said, wouldn't it be more beneficial to concentrate on limiting the impact force against the frame and/or modifying/improving your grip to control that upward movement?There are bigger differences in comps than you probably realize. Do you shoot Open? Open Major in particular? As far as the frame and slide collision, you are correct. We do a lot of spring testing on our Open guns. At least I do. Light springs are the ticket. Heavier spring MAY reduce the rearward collision speed but will increase the forward speed of the slide causing even more movement. Since we have kind of concluded that PREDICTABLE dot movement is key it stands to reason we want to find the happy medium for slide travel and velocity.Dots are going to move, no question. Getting them to move as little as possible and predictably is key. Yes I shoot open. I have a CZ Czechmate and an STI Trubor. Yes, I agree tracking the dot and having the dot stabilize for the next shot are very important. The comp obviously does help in the tracking but a lot of the stabilization for the next shot seems to be spring related. I have probably read every thread on this topic and there are so many comp designs out there. However, all the videos seem to show that any decent comp is doing it's job and the majority of the flip is when the slide hits the frame and the wiggle when the gun goes back into battery is spring related more than anything. I have done my own slow motion video testing as well to verify this view. What I see are the guns that have a very short stroke seem to flip the most when the slide hits the frame but they also return to battery very quickly. If you try to control the slide speed with a heavier spring, the gun dips when it returns and your follow up shot will likely be very slow. A lighter spring means the frame takes a bigger pounding but the gun goes into battery much smoother and less dipping. My Czechmate breaks a lot of slide stops and I have had mutile barrel breakage where the slide stop goes through the frame. CZ has a new barrel design that is supposed to help with this issue but I will not know for sure until I get the new version fitted and tested. I look at guns like Eric Grauffel's and it has a very small, ancient designed comp and relies on barrel porting more than anything. They lightened the slide for greater slide speed and the barrel porting means you have to run an even larger charge of powder to make power factor. Obviously, he does pretty well with what seems like old comp technology. I have shot the Tanfoglio and it cycles very fast and the the dot settles down pretty quickly when the gun goes back into battery. He probably could have had any gun he wanted and had Tanfoglio modify it to suit his needs and look at what he chose. Early Tanfoglios suffered many durability issues like sheared lugs, cracked slides etc which all make sense given how they designed the gun. For longevity, all the longer stroke guns seem to cycle much slower and the hit to the frame is a lot lighter. They seem to last a lot longer before breakage. A gun cycles way faster than anyone can shoot so really it's when the dot is reacquired and settles would seem to be the most important criteria for faster follow up shots. A great deal of this is subjective to the individual shooter as well. Edited December 16, 2015 by flgcwpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Sarge, do you run standard or progressive rate springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 My setup is getting closer to zero muzzle flip........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 CHA-LEE, Looking good. I wish I could get 170 PF with 115 gr and 8.3 gr HS-6. I gotta run 8.3 gr to get 170 PF with a 124 gr pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Sarge, do you run standard or progressive rate springs?Wolf 8lb variable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Sarge, do you run standard or progressive rate springs?Wolf 8lb variable I was thinking about trying an 8lb variable recoil spring to see if that would eliminate the little bit of muzzle flip due to the slide bottoming out hard on the frame. Currently I am using a standard 7lb Wolff recoil spring. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Charlie: Try a 8lb ISMI recoil spring and see what it does. 8.3grains of HS-6 seems a little on the light side to make major through the barrels I have been using. Try some 115 grain JHP's and you will be surprised on how accurate they are. I load to 1.170" OAL by the way. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) I was running a var 7# and switched to a var 8#. I really liked the difference. Give it a try. Edited December 16, 2015 by echotango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Sarge, do you run standard or progressive rate springs?Wolf 8lb variable I was thinking about trying an 8lb variable recoil spring to see if that would eliminate the little bit of muzzle flip due to the slide bottoming out hard on the frame. Currently I am using a standard 7lb Wolff recoil spring. What do you think? I'm sure I'm not the level of shooter you are but for me the 7 lb spring produced a much flatter cycling gun when I tried it but in my gun I had to keep the gun spotless or it would start hicupping. With the 8 I can run several matches with no worries. All guns are different though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudukai13 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm curious to know - Does anyone have an Akai Custom "gill" comp that they can film and compare with a more traditional vertical "port" comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have one and it's in my queue to be filmed both with no barrel ports and with two barrel ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTP_Shooting_Sports Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) STI Trubor shooting minor 9mm load : ST Trubor shooting major 99 load: Edited December 17, 2015 by flgcwpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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