rtr Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 10.5.4 says: "Retrieving a dropped handgun. Dropped handguns must always be retrieved by a Range Officer who will, after checking and/or clearing the handgun, place it directly into the competitor’s gun case, gun bag or holster. Dropping an unloaded handgun or causing it to fall outside of a course of fire is not an infraction, however, a competitor who retrieves a dropped handgun will receive a match disqualification." At a match a shooter is resetting some steel downrange from most of the squad, including the RO. He is using a Limcat holster and somehow dislodges his gun and manages to catch it before it hits the ground. Another shooter who was setting steel with him says that the shooters gun became dislodged and he caught it before it hit the ground. Shooter is standing there with his strong hand taking almost a normal grip with the gun basically next to his holster in the same position it would roughly be in if in the holster (ie muzzle pointed down). The RO is summoned. If you are the RO what do you do and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) 10.5.1 Handling a firearm at any time except when in a designated safety area or when under the supervision of, and in response to a direct command issued by, a Range Officer. DQ He should have let it hit the gound and had an RO retrieve it, clear it, and holster it for him. Edited August 29, 2009 by boz1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I hate that one's natural instinct to catch the gun (especially if it's not to prevent damage but with the half formed thought of trying to keep other's safe) is not considered the right thing to do, but I'm pretty sure the posters above have the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Yes, unfortunatly it's a DQ. I hate to see a nice gun hit the dirt (or concrete), but it must be let go of, if you feel the gun come out of the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Something falls, human nature is to catch it. Not to mention a multi-thousand dollar blaster hitting the ground isn't a pleasant thought. I'm sure I'd just reach out and catch it too. Ah heck, who doesn't like DQ Blizzards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Hmmm, let's see.... $5,000 dollar gun hitting the dirt or concrete? Or forfeiture of a $25.00 match fee?.....I think I'll catch mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Yumm! DQ Blizzards! Been there once because of a dropped gun. Freekin chair starts! Adios, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't know if it was the right call or not, but my gun came loose during a walk through when I bumped into a barrier. Out of instinct, I caught the gun by the magwell and IMMEDIATELY placed it on the ground. The RO was advised of my actions and in this case I was not DQ'd. As for catching the gun, it was totally instinct and I would have a hard time faulting someone in a similar situation from at least trying to catch their gun. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I had a gun drop out of a holster on 3 occasions. One time I got my foot in the way and slowly lowered it to the ground... Not technically handling is it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I know this seems like a tough DQ but think about it from the safety aspect. Remember one of the Cardinal rules of shooting is that all guns should be treated as if they are loaded at all times. Would you try to catch a loaded gun if it fell or would you try to back away? Imagine reaching for a falling gun. There is a significant possibility that the shooter would allow one or more fingers to enter the trigger guard and contact the trigger. Yes, I understand that there was no ammunition in this particular firearm but it should still be treated as a loaded gun. While it is a tough rule and one that runs counter to our normal reactions I understand the logic behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I know this seems like a tough DQ but think about it from the safety aspect. Remember one of the Cardinal rules of shooting is that all guns should be treated as if they are loaded at all times. Would you try to catch a loaded gun if it fell or would you try to back away? Imagine reaching for a falling gun. There is a significant possibility that the shooter would allow one or more fingers to enter the trigger guard and contact the trigger. Yes, I understand that there was no ammunition in this particular firearm but it should still be treated as a loaded gun. While it is a tough rule and one that runs counter to our normal reactions I understand the logic behind it. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Y'all may want to check out the updated definition of dropped in the Sept 2008 addenda to the rules. Makes this situation much clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) If you bag it between stages this won't happen. Edited August 29, 2009 by Jeff686 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 i was at Nationals sitting in the bleachers with a Ghost holster when i bang my gun. It fell. Called the RO. He picked it up and etc. Sure I was embarassed but followed the rules. A lot of our safety rules in in conflict with some of our natural reflexes but the bottom line is that as intelligent beings we are suppose to learn those things that are contrary to our natural reflexes. I fully emphasize with the situation but we need to do what is right (according to our rule book ) vs what is natural. When I was in the service they really push the idea of not doing what seemed natural but what is the smart call. The first example was a guy working with an electricity, the first instant is to grab the guy but that only kills two people rather than potentially one. It is like you do not try to grap a hot iron if it is dropping, you only get burn. When a guy tosses a knife at you, you do not grab it, you let it fall. All this is contrary to our natural instincts. Think of baseball, the idea is to catch stuff, whereas in the real world catching things can get you hurt. DQ is the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 The September 2008 addendum says: "Dropped Gun (during the Course of Fire) ---- A condition in which a competitor loses control of their handgun. Loss of control does not require the handgun to land on the ground or other range surface or prop. It occurs anytime the handgun is no longer in control of either hand, even if it is trapped against part of the body or caught in mid-air." It also says: "Handling (as in “handling a firearm”) The act of manipulating, firearm while the trigger is functionally accessible." I think that is additive to my question. FYI the shooter in my example was not DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Catch it, bag it and help paste the rest of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 If after catching his gun he had placed it on the ground, I would consider it the same as a dropped gun. But he was standing there holding the gun in a grip indicative of a shooting position, so I think he should have been DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I took the DQ. Finished shooting,holstered and went to put on the lock and it went forward and down. Got it before it hit my knee- DQ- Just have a hard time letting mt 3k plus open gun hit the deck. BUT I did get a free DQ ice cream out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I took the DQ. Finished shooting,holstered and went to put onthe lock and it went forward and down. Got it before it hit my knee- DQ- Just have a hard time letting mt 3k plus open gun hit the deck. BUT I did get a free DQ ice cream out of it That's different than the scenario posed by the OP. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STInky Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 As far as the original senario....your gun falling from the holster while setting steel or reaching to pick up a pepper-popper while you are not actively involved in shooting the stage: I'm catching my gun !!! I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground ! Bring on the Ice Cream !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...,,,,but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground ! You know you're contradicting yourself here --- and putting everyone else on the range in danger, right? A better plan would be to bag the gun between stages, or get a better holster. Safety rules are designed to offer redundancies; breaking one gets you closer to having a potentially fatal accident. Is $2,000 really worth that level of risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STInky Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...,,,,but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground ! You know you're contradicting yourself here --- and putting everyone else on the range in danger, right? A better plan would be to bag the gun between stages, or get a better holster. Safety rules are designed to offer redundancies; breaking one gets you closer to having a potentially fatal accident. Is $2,000 really worth that level of risk? No further comment, so I don't violate the guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I had a gun drop out of a holster on 3 occasions. One time I got my foot in the way and slowly lowered it to the ground... Not technically handling is it...? Gamer!! (J/K) Edited August 30, 2009 by Cy Soto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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