Is Atlas worth the price difference over MPA?

[ltdmstr]

1 hour ago, RangerTrace said:

I've adopted AGW's clean/lube philosophy.  Clean every 2-3K.  Lube before every range session or match.  

 

Not sure I understand this.  What's the benefit of not cleaning the gun?  Why would you want to add clean lube to dirt and carbon fouling that's in your gun?

[davsco]

1 hour ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Not sure I understand this.  What's the benefit of not cleaning the gun?  Why would you want to add clean lube to dirt and carbon fouling that's in your gun?

yeah i generally clean my 2011's after every match.  the oil/dust/sand/carbon ends up being a rubbing compound which certainly doesn't help the tightness of the gun.

[mandiesel]

Im also the type of guy to clean / lube after each range session... just makes sense on something with such tight tolerances..

[RangerTrace]

11 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Not sure I understand this.  What's the benefit of not cleaning the gun?  Why would you want to add clean lube to dirt and carbon fouling that's in your gun?

Adam has a video on it if you care to look.  His theory is the lube takes the dirt and grime out with it.  He, like most of us, prefers shooting to cleaning.

 

https://atlasgunworks.com/blog/stop-greasing-your-guns-v2

[motosapiens]

i wouldn't buy any $3500+ gun to shoot idpa (or CO or LO).

 

We have 2 atlas titans that are good guns for the money ($3700 each when we bought them), but I don't know that I'd pay what they want now for them, and they are 40s for limited so the steel grip makes some sense. I don't see any reason for a steel grip on a minor gun. i can definitely draw, reload and transition faster with a polymer grip.

 

We have a brazos open gun, and an old very nice sti edge as well, but until recently i've been most happy lately shooting a much more reasonably priced shadow2. For idpa tho you may need the original shadow to make weight.

 

Recently I stumbled upon a staccato P, and I have to say I'm, pretty impressed with it so far. The dot doesn't jump noticeably more than my shadow2, and I seem to be able to shoot accurately slightly more quickly (probably due to the better trigger). Best of all, it didn't require any tweaks or mods or fixes other than the normal adjustments to the leaf spring to reduce pressure on the sear and trigger pull. I can't get it to malfunction at all, and the trigger is imho very nice for a gun out of the box.... nice enough that i'm not even going to bother getting my local gunsmith to clean it up.

 

regarding cleaning, i don't care what everyone else does. I typically do live fire practice 1-2 days before a match, and then clean the gun the night before the match, so I go 250-300 rounds between cleaning normally. every 2nd or 3rd cleaning i remove the extractor on a 1911/2011, and once a year in the winter I strip it down to individual parts, clean, inspect and reassemble. My guns seem to run reliably and last a long long time, so I don't see any reason to change, and my habit of cleaning a gun the night before a match gives me something constructive to do with my hands while i sip a beer.

Edited October 24, 2023 by motosapiens

[Boomstick303]

17 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Not sure I understand this.  What's the benefit of not cleaning the gun?  Why would you want to add clean lube to dirt and carbon fouling that's in your gun?

 

I agree, in that I at least do a field strip and wipe down any residue I can between sessions.  I use a similar cleaning cycle now that I have some time on the 2011 platform but I wipe down everything I can during the field strip.  I use N320 and Sport Pistol and those powders are so clean that I barely get any residue after shooting one match or practice session.  I field strip the gun(s), wipe off the limited amount of powder residue after each match/practice session.  I see next to no wear on any of the components.  I monitor Extractor tension with each field strip and address it if I think there is any issue, which there has not been to date.  

 

As far as a complete tear down, I cannot see how doing this more often than 2000-3000 rounds makes any sense.  There is a caveat to this if I attend a match or practice where sand is blowing around, or if something happens to the gun which introduces sand/dirt into the gun.  Wind, or going prone which kicked sand into the gun comes to mind.   

 

Once I figure out and implement a system of care for guns and magazines as well as ammo loads for any of my firearms, I get next to zero malfunctions.  

  

Edited October 24, 2023 by Boomstick303

[Boomstick303]

For the original question, you cannot go wrong with either.  Some say Atlas if overpriced.  I think that depends on who is buying and what they want.  For me, while Atlas guns are expensive, I have had nothing but good luck with the two Atlas guns I own.  Mind you I have a very limited round count on the second one, but it functions just as well as the first, and I have not had any issues running the first one.  I think Atlas now offers something a bit different with their Alpha grip system.  The guns have been worth every penny in my eyes.  It would seem that I am not the only one in that the wait time for an Atlas Athena has gone from from 3 month to 9 months the last I heard.  

 

What I do like about the 2011 market is there now seems to be an option at a lot of different price ranges.  This allows all kinds of different budgets to get into the 2011 game.  I think that is a win for everyone.  

 

To answer the question, be honest with your budget, and buy accordingly.  Is one gun enough or do you feel you need a backup gun as well?  How many mags do you think you need?  What does your ammo budget look like?  I honestly think the question answers itself once one is honest with their budget.  

 

[392heminut]

5 minutes ago, yourearequiredfield said:

Just hear for the comments/replies. 

And upping your post count?

[392heminut]

Just now, yourearequiredfield said:

Heck yeh! But yes that’s a given. 

[ima45dv8]

Strangely enough, his post count just went to zero.

Hmmm...

[Wrathen]

On 9/24/2023 at 7:27 PM, Rich406 said:

I wasn’t very impressed with the Atlas Athena I bought. It didn’t seem like it was fit very well and had issues with both the trigger and extractor.
 

Support was great, when you could actually get ahold of someone. But actually getting someone was an issue. Calls went unanswered, and voicemails were never returned. Their ticket system is ok, but it can take 3-4 days to get an actual response.

 

In the end I corrected the issues myself with the help of YouTube… they did offer to have me send the gun back, but I didn’t want to risk another extended wait after the initial wait for the gun. 
 

now everything runs right and I  haven’t had any further issues. but it was irritating to have multiple issues with a brand new gun. 
 

How does it compare with other 2011s? I have no idea.
 

 

move had opposite experience. My Athena has run great has had no issues but for I knocked the front sight loose. I called them got an answer and they sent me an RMA return label that day. Shipped them the slide and had the gun up and running the end of the next week. 
 

I also have an older Nemesis and it’s run well for 10k+ rounds with only having an extractor issue a few thousand rounds back. I submitted a ticket on a Saturday for an rma on Monday and gun back about a week later. 
 

my best friend shoots a MPA ds9, it’s the only one I’ve seen in person (so sample size of one). I would say the fit and finish is on par but likely slightly better than my Staccato P but short of my Athena. He did have issues using Staccato/STI mags MBX have been fine and I’ve loaned him a few of my atlas mags last week but no issues yet. 
 

I’ve recently met the local master gunsmith that focuses on 2011s (mostly open guns) … I’ve shot a few of his guns and they are great. If I met him before getting ether of my Atlas guns not sure I would have gone the Atlas route though I have no issues with ether Atlas guns but could have gotten similar gun but custom for less… but warrant or possible more issues hard to say. Custom can sometimes be finicky. 
 

depends on the route you want to go and if you have a local builder. If you want hassle free and good customer service I can’t recommend Atlas enough. If you want a project and don’t mind troubleshooting and tinkering. Start with a Prodigy or Sraccato and build up what you want. I shot an STI Hawk for IDPA for a long while then moved to a Staccato P till I got my Atlas. It’s a great shooting gun and works well for that sport. I mainly shoot USPSA now thoigh 

[RangerTrace]

I ran my XC today against another EX shooting a Titan with an optic.  The XC ate his lunch.  4th vs. 14th.  

[Wrathen]

13 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

I ran my XC today against another EX shooting a Titan with an optic.  The XC ate his lunch.  4th vs. 14th.  

The saying it’s the Indian not the arrow is an apt one. I often recommend for new and starting shooters to buy less expensive guns and ammo over more expensive guns. Training and experience will win out over most things. If funds aren’t an issue sure buy whatever and later after you have experience if you want a nicer gun sure

[donnyglock]

3 hours ago, Wrathen said:

move had opposite experience. My Athena has run great has had no issues but for I knocked the front sight loose. I called them got an answer and they sent me an RMA return label that day. Shipped them the slide and had the gun up and running the end of the next week. 
 

I also have an older Nemesis and it’s run well for 10k+ rounds with only having an extractor issue a few thousand rounds back. I submitted a ticket on a Saturday for an rma on Monday and gun back about a week later. 
 

my best friend shoots a MPA ds9, it’s the only one I’ve seen in person (so sample size of one). I would say the fit and finish is on par but likely slightly better than my Staccato P but short of my Athena. He did have issues using Staccato/STI mags MBX have been fine and I’ve loaned him a few of my atlas mags last week but no issues yet. 
 

I’ve recently met the local master gunsmith that focuses on 2011s (mostly open guns) … I’ve shot a few of his guns and they are great. If I met him before getting ether of my Atlas guns not sure I would have gone the Atlas route though I have no issues with ether Atlas guns but could have gotten similar gun but custom for less… but warrant or possible more issues hard to say. Custom can sometimes be finicky. 
 

depends on the route you want to go and if you have a local builder. If you want hassle free and good customer service I can’t recommend Atlas enough. If you want a project and don’t mind troubleshooting and tinkering. Start with a Prodigy or Sraccato and build up what you want. I shot an STI Hawk for IDPA for a long while then moved to a Staccato P till I got my Atlas. It’s a great shooting gun and works well for that sport. I mainly shoot USPSA now thoigh 

What’s a “master gunsmith” just checking how one gets that title. 

[Sarge]

6 minutes ago, donnyglock said:

What’s a “master gunsmith” just checking how one gets that title. 

For what it’s worth:

 

https://americangunsmithinginstitute.net/master-gunsmith-program/

 

[ltdmstr]

56 minutes ago, Sarge said:

For what it’s worth:

 

https://americangunsmithinginstitute.net/master-gunsmith-program/

 

 

Well, the AGI Master Gunsmith title and a nickel together would be worth about five cents.

[donnyglock]

7 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Well, the AGI Master Gunsmith title and a nickel together would be worth about five cents.

100%

[Sarge]

10 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Well, the AGI Master Gunsmith title and a nickel together would be worth about five cents.

 

2 hours ago, donnyglock said:

100%

I have no doubt! Kind of like ASE master mechanics who struggle with fixing cars.

[maur]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:53 PM, donnyglock said:

It should flat out run on any length ammo and decent mag. 9mm is easy to get running. I would worry about it being finicky and liking only a certain length ammo. 

I can run 1.2" oal out of my ds9 opens no problem. And that's just the longest I tested because I know I'll never load that long. I think that guy said later in this thread that it was a mag issue, which ime across multiple platforms staccato mags either run in your gun or they don't. If you put 3rd party guts or a basepad on them your chances drop even further. There's a reason people spend over a hundred dollar premium per mag to go mbx.

[donnyglock]

1 hour ago, maur said:

I can run 1.2" oal out of my ds9 opens no problem. And that's just the longest I tested because I know I'll never load that long. I think that guy said later in this thread that it was a mag issue, which ime across multiple platforms staccato mags either run in your gun or they don't. If you put 3rd party guts or a basepad on them your chances drop even further. There's a reason people spend over a hundred dollar premium per mag to go mbx.

Thanks for the education. 

[GunBugBit]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:44 PM, donnyglock said:

What’s a “master gunsmith” just checking how one gets that title. 

Acknowledgement from other gunsmiths and other people familiar with their work.  Kind of like being called a virtuoso in the music world.

 

The late Jim Garthwaite a master gunsmith?  Definitely.

 

Bob Marvel?  Oh yeah.  Matt McLearn?  You bet.

 

Geddy Lee a virtuoso bass guitarist?  No doubt.  The late Johnny Winter a virtuoso blues guitarist?  Of course.

Edited December 16, 2023 by GunBugBit

[ColoradoNick]

If you're trying to get better you are looking in the wrong place. Switching from whatever gun you're using now to ANYTHING is probably going to make you worse. At least in the short term. Take that money and put it towards ammo, training, etc. if you want to see a real improvement. I shoot with a guy who went from a P320, to a Shadow 2, to an Atlas Titan, and now a Glock all within a 12 month period. His performance has suffered and he can't figure out why he's stuck in A class. 

 

Disclaimer: I haven't read any replies other than the original post. 

 

Edit: As suspected most everyone is just going to recommend the gun they are familiar with. It's the Indian not the bow!

Edited December 16, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[donnyglock]

6 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

Acknowledgement from other gunsmiths and other people familiar with their work.  Kind of like being called a virtuoso in the music world.

 

The late Jim Garthwaite a master gunsmith?  Definitely.

 

Bob Marvel?  Oh yeah.  Matt McLearn?  You bet.

 

Geddy Lee a virtuoso bass guitarist?  No doubt.  The late Johnny Winter a virtuoso blues guitarist?  Of course.

Lol. Ok 

[GunBugBit]

Key concept:  people don’t declare themselves to be master gunsmiths.  Other people say they are.

[lroy]

Well atlas is rising prices again in Jan.