Russty Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Is it legal in USPSA Production to come to the line on a loaded start with 11 rounds in a magazine, chamber 1 round and start with 10 in magazine or must one do the load one round, eject magazine, put 10 round magazine in gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Magazine capacity is after the start signal so that is fine for loaded start condition. Appendix D4 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Homie is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russty Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Cool !!! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwishoot Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Just make sure you put the right magazine into the gun on LAMR Have seen people try to do similar, get flustered/distracted/screw up and find themselves in the odd position of trying to explain why they had more rounds in their magazine than their division allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Particularly on empty gun or "all mags on barrels" starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 13 hours ago, Russty said: Is it legal in USPSA Production to come to the line on a loaded start with 11 rounds in a magazine, chamber 1 round and start with 10 in magazine or must one do the load one round, eject magazine, put 10 round magazine in gun? The USPSA rulebook is a free pdf. I strongly suggest getting one and reading it. Doing so will help you not end up getting bumped to open, shooting for no score, or getting disqualified for things you thought were Ok but aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russty Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Yes, that is true. It used to be that going to the line with 1 rounds in a magazine was a bump out of Prodution and I heard that was no longer true. The quick and easy way was to consult the hive mind to verify. Yes, I was lazy. But, there are many folks who enjoy helping g and no one is obligated to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete627 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I have a colored base pad on my "start" (11 round) magazine ... and always put it in my rearmost mag holder (or in my pocket) for LAMR. You couldn't do this on a barrel or empty gun start as you would be grabbing them after the start signal ... in that case they could not be loaded w/ more than 10 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Russty said: It used to be that going to the line with 1 rounds in a magazine was a bump out of Prodution @ima45dv8 do you ever remember that being a thing? Edited June 13, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: I think that's tribal knowledge and never was an actual rule. Magazine capacity limits have always applied after the start signal. Another reason to not rely on what others say. This is incorrect. When production was a new division, if you loaded 11 out of one mag it was a bump to open, because the course of fire starts at make ready. Eventually the powers that be realized this made no sense and change the rule to what it is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: 5 hours ago, Russty said: It used to be that going to the line with 1 rounds in a magazine was a bump out of Prodution @ima45dv8 do you ever remember that being a thing? No, that's news to me. I think he meant 11 rounds, but even that is allowed, right up until the start signal. Homie made the correct cite, but a lot of folks who use an 11-rounder for loading forget that on unloaded starts. I've bumped my bestest friend to Open for that before. We didn't let him hear the end of that for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said: No, that's news to me. I think he meant 11 rounds, but even that is allowed, right up until the start signal. Homie made the correct cite, but a lot of folks who use an 11-rounder for loading forget that on unloaded starts. I've bumped my bestest friend to Open for that before. We didn't let him hear the end of that for a long time. Actually, prior to the 2004 rules the prohibition was 10 rounds whenever. And I know a guy who traveled back to Area 5 to shoot production and got bumped to open for having 11 in the mag on the first stage. He was not a happy camper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 hours ago, ima45dv8 said: No, that's news to me. I think he meant 11 rounds, but even that is allowed, right up until the start signal. Homie made the correct cite, but a lot of folks who use an 11-rounder for loading forget that on unloaded starts. I've bumped my bestest friend to Open for that before. We didn't let him hear the end of that for a long time. As an aside, I saw first hand on saturday why level 1 matches should be sticklers for enforcing ALL rules, including new shooters. I saw several guys in my squad get bumped to open at the Buckeye Blast on saturday because their CO mags wouldn't fit in the gage. They were all relatively new shooters, some of which I know for a fact were attending their first level II. If they had gone through a quick gear check (mag gage, holster position) at a local, they wouldn't have been as pissed and frustrated as they were this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: As an aside, I saw first hand on saturday why level 1 matches should be sticklers for enforcing ALL rules, including new shooters. I saw several guys in my squad get bumped to open at the Buckeye Blast on saturday because their CO mags wouldn't fit in the gage. They were all relatively new shooters, some of which I know for a fact were attending their first level II. If they had gone through a quick gear check (mag gage, holster position) at a local, they wouldn't have been as pissed and frustrated as they were this weekend. Yeah, can’t count the number of times I heard XXX company said these are legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Sarge said: Yeah, can’t count the number of times I heard XXX company said these are legal Or worse ... "That's not how we do it at my home club ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagellord Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: As an aside, I saw first hand on saturday why level 1 matches should be sticklers for enforcing ALL rules, including new shooters. I saw several guys in my squad get bumped to open at the Buckeye Blast on saturday because their CO mags wouldn't fit in the gage. They were all relatively new shooters, some of which I know for a fact were attending their first level II. If they had gone through a quick gear check (mag gage, holster position) at a local, they wouldn't have been as pissed and frustrated as they were this weekend. That's part of the reason I own a scale, shockbottle economy box, and a mag gauge. I'll bring them out whenever people need them so they can check their gear prior to a major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: As an aside, I saw first hand on saturday why level 1 matches should be sticklers for enforcing ALL rules, including new shooters. I saw several guys in my squad get bumped to open at the Buckeye Blast on saturday because their CO mags wouldn't fit in the gage. They were all relatively new shooters, some of which I know for a fact were attending their first level II. If they had gone through a quick gear check (mag gage, holster position) at a local, they wouldn't have been as pissed and frustrated as they were this weekend. pretty much the first thing I tell a new shooter with a 320 is their brand new mags likely don't fit the gage, then I hand them the club gage to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Sarge said: Yeah, can’t count the number of times I heard XXX company said these are legal In their defense, many disclaim that with statements to check their extensions with your own mags and gage. Magazines are sheet steel stampings. A process that cannot hold dimensions as consistently as machining. So the same extension that passed the gage when stuck on magazine #1 could easily fail when installed on magazine #2. And it's not the extension maker's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I'm guessing that at least part of what Sarge was referring to were the Dawson SNL (Sometimes Not Legal) basepads. Despite the name, a lot of people would install them without checking, only to get a painful bounce to the Open end of the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Grip tape on the basepad is another way to ruin your day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 pretty much everyone knows by now that the sig extended mags are not legal, but noobs (and even experienced shooters) have been complaining about it for like 2 years now. There's no reason for anyone to be surprised by this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 On 6/13/2022 at 1:19 AM, ChuckS said: Actually, prior to the 2004 rules the prohibition was 10 rounds whenever. And I know a guy who traveled back to Area 5 to shoot production and got bumped to open for having 11 in the mag on the first stage. He was not a happy camper... True. I forget the name, but I remember a hi-end shooter bumped at Nationals being the impetus for the change. It came too late for him, but is was the right move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 I have measured my Sig factory 21 round magazines several times with different rulers and they are always in compliance using the method in Appendix E-1. Just to be sure I shaved a little off the back of the basepad but remember there is an alternative of using a ruler if the mag guage does not work with a certain type of basepad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagellord Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 16 hours ago, ChuckS said: Grip tape on the basepad is another way to ruin your day... I almost got burned by this at SC sectional a few years back. A friend of mine I was shooting the match with told me to gauge the night before we shot. I discovered the tape had my mags out of compliance! Peeled it off and I was good to go. 1 hour ago, Paul B said: I have measured my Sig factory 21 round magazines several times with different rulers and they are always in compliance using the method in Appendix E-1. Just to be sure I shaved a little off the back of the basepad but remember there is an alternative of using a ruler if the mag guage does not work with a certain type of basepad. I think Sig fixed that issue, because I distinctly remember it being a problem when they first came out but not recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now