Occassional Failure to Fire CCI 500s

[DFIVE3]

Received my RL1100 back in January and I have been having issues with failure to fires since day one.  I have worked on a process of elimination and I am coming up dry on a solution.

 

Components and firearm info:

Range Brass, wet tumbled, case lubed

CCI 500 SPP

Shadow 2, 11.5lb hammer spring, extended fire pin and spring.

 

I started out with the 11.5# hammer spring and stock firing pin. Had zero issues with factory ammo of all brands (including Blazer that runs CCI primers).

 

Shot my first 200 rounds of reloads with CCI 500s and had approx 10-15 light strikes/ Failure to fires. Most would detonate on single action, but not double. Some wouldn't go off even after 5-6 trigger pulls.

 

I slightly adjusted my swage die for the primer pocket and ordered a extended firing pin and spring on recommendations from other shooters.

 

With extended FP spring I am still having issues lighting off my reloads (double and single action), but no issues with factory ammo. The only issue I can think of is that I am not seating the primers deep enough. Per the Dillon instructional videos, I have lightly adjusted my swage and primer seating stations slightly. Before I get cranking on some rounds to test, I figured I would reach out to see if anyone has any other ideas to check. Below are pics of what the swage station looks like with and without brass.

 

 

 

 

[AHI]

Stop adjusting the swage. Adjust the primer seating to .007 to .011 below flush.

If problems continue put the factory springs back in your gun. Lots of :tuned: guns

Will not fire cci primers.

Edited February 20, 2022 by AHI

[Alaskapopo]

CCI has harder primers the fact single action will set them off but not double (which has a shorter travel and less impact) means you need to increase your hammer spring if you want to keep using those primers. 

[zzt]

If you have no problem firing factory ammo with CCI primers, the problem is with your primer seating depth.  What you are describing is a classic example of primers not seated to bottom.  An extended firing pin will not help much with that.  Swaging only eliminated the crimp.  Seat you primers deeper.

[Rnlinebacker]

I seat mine really deep on the 1050. Should be well below the primer pocket edges

[DFIVE3]

1 hour ago, AHI said:

Stop adjusting the swage. Adjust the primer seating to .007 to .011 below flush.

If problems continue put the factory springs back in your gun. Lots of :tuned: guns

Will not fire cci primers.

 I''ll adjust and give this a try. Thanks

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Alaskapopo said:

CCI has harder primers the fact single action will set them off but not double (which has a shorter travel and less impact) means you need to increase your hammer spring if you want to keep using those primers. 

 

 I get that running a 11.5# HS is on the lighter side, but if I can light off thousands of rounds of standard Blazer Brass, then the only thing I can think of would be primer seating depth. The hammer spring is setting factory CCI primer loaded ammo just fine.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, zzt said:

If you have no problem firing factory ammo with CCI primers, the problem is with your primer seating depth.  What you are describing is a classic example of primers not seated to bottom.  An extended firing pin will not help much with that.  Swaging only eliminated the crimp.  Seat you primers deeper.

 

Going to adjust today and see how it goes. Thanks

Edited February 20, 2022 by DFIVE3

[XL6504ME]

I have the same issue and see light primer strikes, never thought of seating them deeper my g48 is stock. 

[Brooke]

If you can't fire aCCI 500 primer you have a gun or seating issue. Its most likely failure to seat the primer deep enough.

 

Forget about the swage die. It is not an issue. Just sort out out any crimped brass until you get this straight. Then you don't need a swage die.

 

I routinely fire CCI 500, CCI 450, CCI small rifle in 2 CZ2's, three Atlas Nemesis 40's, and three custom Open guns (9mm). Never have a misfire, ever.

 

Adjust your primer seating depth and move on.

[Postal Bob]

An 11.5 lb trigger is really light. You are on the cusp of reliable ignition and ftf. Everything has to be perfect(factory rounds) for it to set off primers. Your reloads may be less than perfect for the lighter hammer spring you're using. They probably will be fine in most guns, but not yours. You're also probably using mixed brass, so different brands, have different primer pockets. Whereas factory ammo is all the same brass.

Instead of trying to make sure the primers are seated perfectly in every different brand of brass, just increase the weight of your hammer spring.

[motosapiens]

so if it were me, the first thing I would try is a heavier mainspring, just to rule out the possibility that you got a batch of damaged/defective primers.

 

I also frequently use cci in a shadow2. I have had only a couple light strikes in several thousand rounds, but they always light off on the second pull. I managed to get hold of some s&b primers, and had to bump up to a 12lb mainspring to light them off.

[DFIVE3]

Last night after work I was able to send about 300 rounds down range.

 

 After adjusting my primer depth on the RL 1100, I ran about 100 rounds in double action. I still had 6 CCI primers not light off. Pic attached. The Winchester I used, all went bang with no issues in double action.

 

I dropped in a 13# hammer spring and had no issues, but that DA pull felt like a 4 banger Mazda when you have been driving a V8 sport (11.5#) car for so long. I ordered a Patriot Defense 12# spring to test out when it comes in.

 

For the match coming up this weekend, I'll run Winchesters primed rounds and wait for the 12# spring to come in.

 

I don't have a primer depth gauge and not looking to order one of these yet. I have tried the back of a digital caliper, but got inconsistent readings. 

https://bullettipping.com/products/precision-primer-gauge

 

Thank you to all that have put in their input and suggestions.

 

 

[Sarge]

Those look like light strikes. Primers should be seated at or below flush. For your next test try to fire again after initial misfire. If they go off then the primers are too high. 

[DFIVE3]

38 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Those look like light strikes. Primers should be seated at or below flush. For your next test try to fire again after initial misfire. If they go off then the primers are too high. 

 

I double check the primer height when I drop rounds into my Hundo for case gauging. All primers have been at least flush. For the most part they sit a little lower than flush.

 

I'm sure all of these (from the pic in last post) would fire on the second trigger pull. I had that happen at a local last weekend. Attached is a slow motion of multiple failure to fires. First two trigger pulls were DA, fired one round and then had a single action FTF. Two rounds later had another Single Action FTF. This happened on a couple stages.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/85quufqaunr79lp/Video Feb 23%2C 11 40 57 AM.mov?dl=0

[Postal Bob]

Curious, how old, or how many rounds through your 11.5 lb hammer spring? It could be your hammer spring weakened somewhat, and that is why it failed to set off your primers. And why putting in a 13lb spring felt so much heavier. A 1.5 lb spring difference really should be hardly discernable. So it's possible your 11.5 lb spring got so weak, it was probably more like a 9lb or so. Try a new 11.5 lb, and see how it feels, and if it sets off the primers.

[AHI]

Your regular calipers are all you need to check primer seating depth. No need for anything else.

[DFIVE3]

7 minutes ago, Postal Bob said:

Curious, how old, or how many rounds through your 11.5 lb hammer spring? It could be your hammer spring weakened somewhat, and that is why it failed to set off your primers. And why putting in a 13lb spring felt so much heavier. A 1.5 lb spring difference really should be hardly discernable. So it's possible your 11.5 lb spring got so weak, it was probably more like a 9lb or so. Try a new 11.5 lb, and see how it feels, and if it sets off the primers.

I have approx 2-3K through this spring. Probably another 1-2k in dryfire. So yes, it could be that my hammer spring has weakened a bit. I'll see how the 12# feels when it comes in. Worst case, I'll pick up another 11.5# down the road when I tag it on another order.

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, AHI said:

Your regular calipers are all you need to check primer seating depth. No need for anything else.

Right, I tried that and came up with inconsistent results. Probably just operator error when getting the measurement. I used this YT video. I'm new to the reloading scene and have been searching around forum searches and google to find better ways to measure.

 

 

[Farmer]

Your primers look very rounded like they were barely pushed into the brass. This is one of mine that’s been primed with a hand primer tool. A little more flat and definitely below the case. You don’t need a measuring tool, just your eyes and fingers. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Farmer

[AHI]

That is a property seated primer.

DFive3 now make yours look like that.

Edited February 23, 2022 by AHI

[DFIVE3]

5 hours ago, AHI said:

That is a property seated primer.

DFive3 now make yours look like that.

So the first pic with the Winchester primers is how I have been loading.  I adjusted the primer seating depth again for a deeper seat with the CCI 500s. These are definitely below flush and I feel like they are good. But I am not hand priming like Farmer. Just running them through the 1100. I ran a couple deeper, but was having issues with the bras getting caught up in the shell plate. So I backed off an 1/8th of a turn and the result is the Federal case in the second pic.

[Intheshaw1]

Is your brass completely dry? If you're wet tumbling, make sure you are completely drying your brass. My brass goes from the wet tumbler to spin dry to towel off to dehydrator and they are dry and I know they are. When I first started reloading I thought air dried was good enough but then popped some primers and it was still wet so I picked up a cheap dehydrator off marketplace.

 

I had primer depth issues when I moved from a 550 to a 1050 I had my first light strike with a slightly below flush primer, CCI 500s as well. I actually cut a piece of brass for setting swage and threw a primer in that to see what it looked like and realized there is a lot more you can adjust it down. I also measured with my calipers as the video shows to make sure I didn't go too far and I haven't had an issue since.

[ddc]

1 hour ago, DFIVE3 said:

So the first pic with the Winchester primers is how I have been loading.  I adjusted the primer seating depth again for a deeper seat with the CCI 500s. These are definitely below flush and I feel like they are good. But I am not hand priming like Farmer. Just running them through the 1100. I ran a couple deeper, but was having issues with the bras getting caught up in the shell plate. So I backed off an 1/8th of a turn and the result is the Federal case in the second pic.

 

Can you expand on "I ran a couple deeper, but was having issues with the brass getting caught up in the shell plate?"

I guess it is not obvious to me how seating primers deeper would have an effect on "brass getting caught up in the shell plate".

Just here to learn... thanks.

 

[Farmer]

Those look better, a little more flat surface to them. If you look at your first picture closely you can see that the primer in the PMC brass is concave yet it didn’t light. All the energy was used to seat the primer. Seating them firmly against the bottom not only keeps it from moving but also helps seat/push the anvil to the top of the cup. Beings the WW primers aren’t plated they may also seat easier and are more sensitive.  I take it when you say your cases were getting stuck was that there were burrs on the rim that were hanging up?

[DFIVE3]

4 minutes ago, Farmer said:

Those look better, a little more flat surface to them. If you look at your first picture closely you can see that the primer in the PMC brass is concave yet it didn’t light. All the energy was used to seat the primer. Seating them firmly against the bottom not only keeps it from moving but also helps seat/push the anvil to the top of the cup. Beings the WW primers aren’t plated they may also seat easier and are more sensitive.  I take it when you say your cases were getting stuck was that there were burrs on the rim that were hanging up?

 

Copy that, thank you for the input. As for the stuck cases, you are correct. I noticed that once I may the original adjustment of a 1/4 turn from my second adjustment (made the other day), I noticed that the brass was getting burrs on the rim. I wasn't sure what was causing that from primer seating.

My first thought (being new to all this) is that maybe I had adjusted too much on the primer depth and when I was seating primers I was pushing too much to the point where it might have been flexing the rim on the shell holder. I figured it was a long shot. Thinking that if I set them that deep, I would have one pop off. I figured it would be smarter to back off a 1/8th of a turn.

[DFIVE3]

1 hour ago, Intheshaw1 said:

Is your brass completely dry? If you're wet tumbling, make sure you are completely drying your brass. My brass goes from the wet tumbler to spin dry to towel off to dehydrator and they are dry and I know they are. When I first started reloading I thought air dried was good enough but then popped some primers and it was still wet so I picked up a cheap dehydrator off marketplace.

 

I had primer depth issues when I moved from a 550 to a 1050 I had my first light strike with a slightly below flush primer, CCI 500s as well. I actually cut a piece of brass for setting swage and threw a primer in that to see what it looked like and realized there is a lot more you can adjust it down. I also measured with my calipers as the video shows to make sure I didn't go too far and I haven't had an issue since.

 

Yes, I dried my brass and it has been sitting for at least a week. I use a light coat of case lube. I use the spray 2-3 sprays in a 1 gallon bag, drop 5-6 handfuls in, shake and move brass around. Then lit sit on a towel for about an hour method before loading.

 

As for cutting the brass to have a clean view, that is a good idea. Thanks

 

 

51 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Can you expand on "I ran a couple deeper, but was having issues with the brass getting caught up in the shell plate?"

I guess it is not obvious to me how seating primers deeper would have an effect on "brass getting caught up in the shell plate".

Just here to learn... thanks.

 

 Being new myself, I was more cautious than anything. Check the post above this, I covered it on there. Once I backed off a 1/8 turn, no more issues.

Edited February 24, 2022 by DFIVE3

[Cuz]

I have been using CCI primers in a Glock with 4.0 lb striker spring for years with no issues until I switched from my RL550 to a new RL-1100 press.  I didn't mess with the swage at all, but the primers were not being seated anywhere near deep enough.  I just kept making small adjustments until the loaded rounds started looking more like what I was getting on the 550, and once I did that the problem went away.  It took a while to get there because I was afraid I was going to detonate a primer by seating too deep.

 

I don't know if it's Dillon's lawyers, or covid related or what, but the press did NOT come setup and adjusted for 9mm like it was supposed to.  In truth, it was a good learning experience to go through everything myself to get it running.