Shok buf or no? Pros and Cons?

[G17fan]

Hey all, I’ve read so many threads about this on a few forums. 
 

I know they say it protects and it causes short cycle of the slide. 
 

what are the benefits of short slide cycle besides quicker reset. 
 

thanks. 

[MuayThaiJJ]

I like the alum ones on my 1911 45s

[gethirt]

In theory, and if you believe Wilson Combat, they will reduce the amount of punishment that the gun takes. I run SS major in .45 with a 14 pound recoil spring and I do use them. Even when they get pretty chewed up, I have never had one cause me any issues, so with as cheap as they are, I keep running them in the hope that I will get more life out of my guns. Give them a try. 

[G17fan]

11 minutes ago, gethirt said:

In theory, and if you believe Wilson Combat, they will reduce the amount of punishment that the gun takes. I run SS major in .45 with a 14 pound recoil spring and I do use them. Even when they get pretty chewed up, I have never had one cause me any issues, so with as cheap as they are, I keep running them in the hope that I will get more life out of my guns. Give them a try. 

What about this “short cycle” topic?

[RangerTrace]

I've used them on some lightly sprung limited guns.  They will get chewed up and cause your pistol to fail.  So, change them very frequently or run a Dawson  Alumabuff in from of a WC shock buff.  Shred told me about that and it worked great for 40 major.

[RePete]

I installed them in my STI Trojan (45) and after 300rds they were toast, I took them out never to be used again.

 

 

[Braxton1]

Pro:  A little cushioning effect at the rear of the slide stroke.  I never bitch because a Buff gets tore up.  They are getting that way because they are doing their purported JOB (preventing a hard metal-to-metal crash).  In most guns, that metal-to-metal contact occurs when the spring is fully-compressed.  In some, it occurs when the Recoil Spring Tunnel in the slide makes hard contact with the corresponding part in the frame.  That is brutal....

 

Con:  In some guns (or ALL guns when double-stacked or combined with an Aluminum buffer), it will shorten the stroke up so much that attempting to do the "sling-shot" method of slide release usually won't work.  The slide won't come back far enough to cam the Slide Stop out of the way.

 

BS:  They shorten the stroke to the point where the gun is faster.  Hold up there, Hero...  You ain't THAT fast to even be able to notice that.  A 1911 strokes from hammer fall, completing the cycle, to being ready for another hammer fall in 0.05 seconds.  The gun is sitting there waiting patiently for your trigger finger to reverse direction twice (coming off the trigger and then coming back on) for at least another 0.05 seconds, in the best scenario.

 

I believe that a Shok-Buff may give you a few more rounds before a Recoil Spring change would be necessary, but if you're changing those springs like you're supposed to be (every 3-4k), they're not absolutely critical to have.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Braxton1

[zzt]

I do not use buffers.  For one, the short cycle is problematic and requires using a lighter recoil spring to allow enough dwell time at the end of the stroke.

 

If you are using the proper recoil spring you do not need (or want) a buffer.  When testing recoil springs you start with heavy and go lighter if necessary.  What you are looking for is enough dwell time at the end of the stroke to allow the next round in the mag to fully rise into stripping position.  You also want to look at where your sights return.  If the sights return higher than you original POA, you need a heavier spring.  If the dip below POA, you need lighter.  If you change your load you'll have to go through this again.

 

Properly sprung you will not damage a 1911/2011 by not using a buffer.  I'll give you an extreme example; Open guns.  You often read Open is hard on the gun.  Well, it can be if you are running the 7 and 8 lb. recoil springs many use.  It is no wonder they crack slides and beat the gun up.  I shoot major Open with 115 JHPs @ 1470fps.  I run 11 lb. springs in one gun and a 10 in the backup.  After two complete seasons with lots of practice, my main gun looks pristine.  No damage, or even marks on the VIS.  No battering or peening of the recoil rod head.  So after about 25k through, it still looks new inside.

[G17fan]

11 minutes ago, Braxton1 said:

Pro:  A little cushioning effect at the rear of the slide stroke.  I never bitch because a Buff gets tore up.  They are getting that way because they are doing their purported JOB (preventing a hard metal-to-metal crash).  In most guns, that metal-to-metal contact occurs when the spring is fully-compressed.  In some, it occurs when the Recoil Spring Tunnel in the slide makes hard contact with the corresponding part in the frame.  That is brutal....

 

Con:  In some guns (or ALL guns when double-stacked or combined with an Aluminum buffer), it will shorten the stroke up so much that attempting to do the "sling-shot" method of slide release usually won't work.  The slide won't come back far enough to cam the Slide Catch out of the way.

 

BS:  They shorten the stroke to the point where the gun is faster.  Hold up there, Hero...  You ain't THAT fast to even be able to notice that.  A 1911 strokes from hammer fall, completing the cycle, to being ready for another hammer fall in 0.05 seconds.  The gun is sitting there waiting patiently for your trigger finger to reverse direction twice (coming off the trigger and then coming back on) for at least another 0.05 seconds, in the best scenario.

 

I believe that a Shok-Buff may give you a few more rounds before a Recoil Spring change would be necessary, but if you're changing those springs like you're supposed to be (every 3-4k), they're not absolutely critical to have.

Good info! Thanks. 

[G17fan]

6 minutes ago, zzt said:

I do not use buffers.  For one, the short cycle is problematic and requires using a lighter recoil spring to allow enough dwell time at the end of the stroke.

 

If you are using the proper recoil spring you do not need (or want) a buffer.  When testing recoil springs you start with heavy and go lighter if necessary.  What you are looking for is enough dwell time at the end of the stroke to allow the next round in the mag to fully rise into stripping position.  You also want to look at where your sights return.  If the sights return higher than you original POA, you need a heavier spring.  If the dip below POA, you need lighter.  If you change your load you'll have to go through this again.

 

Properly sprung you will not damage a 1911/2011 by not using a buffer.  I'll give you an extreme example; Open guns.  You often read Open is hard on the gun.  Well, it can be if you are running the 7 and 8 lb. recoil springs many use.  It is no wonder they crack slides and beat the gun up.  I shoot major Open with 115 JHPs @ 1470fps.  I run 11 lb. springs in one gun and a 10 in the backup.  After two complete seasons with lots of practice, my main gun looks pristine.  No damage, or even marks on the VIS.  No battering or peening of the recoil rod head.  So after about 25k through, it still looks new inside.

Good info also! Thanks!

[EEH]

No to much trouble.

[Nc1911]

Tried a shock buff in my PM9 Dan Wesson.

  Numerous failure to feed issues but it worked in my Springfield loaded just fine.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Nc1911
Added word

[shred]

Our host here used to run a stack of buffs to shorten the stroke of his Limited .40s back in the day.  Seemed to work pretty well for him.

 

But they're cheap.  If you think you might be missing out, get one and try it.  Toss it and you're out a few bucks.

 

[TommyK]

I still use them for practice and if it is new or in good shape I'd use them for a local match. Good guns are expensive, so I do what I can.

 

But, at an Area 1 match a few years ago, a buff cost me a complete stage. (gun locked up on the first round) Barely got the gun apart and ready in time for the next stage. Probably wouldn't have made it if my Brother hadn't helped me. That gun was totally locked and we both worked up a sweat getting it to open.

 

I won't be running a buff at any major matches ever again. For a few hundred rounds, it won't make any difference.

 

 

[WFargo]

I have buffs in my two competition 1911's in 9mm, in my .40 limited 2011 and in my Open 9 major. 

None of them have ever given any problems after many thousands of rounds. 

So as they are not causing any problems for me, why not use them, right? It will for sure dampen impact so, good thing, right? 

[G17fan]

2 minutes ago, WFargo said:

I have buffs in my two competition 1911's in 9mm, in my .40 limited 2011 and in my Open 9 major. 

None of them have ever given any problems after many thousands of rounds. 

So as they are not causing any problems for me, why not use them, right? It will for sure dampen impact so, good thing, right? 

agreed! What about the short stroke of the slide? Also are aluminum ones better than the squishy ones? I’ve read they bounce 

[WFargo]

Yes, the buff in fact short strokes the slide a bit.

I use the blue plastic buffs. 

With my 1911's in 9mm this 'disables' the sling-shot method for slide-lock reloads, but I use the slide stop on slide-lock reloads so no problem there. 

The Limited and Open 2011's don't stay open on empty mags so no problem there. 

I have tried to see / feel the difference between shooting with or without a buff.  I do not notice a difference to be honest. 

A fellow Classic shooter in the Netherlands does use lighter bullets, light recoil spring and buffs to short stroke and create a shorter/faster cycle and seems really satisfied with this set up.  Again for me, it's difficult to notice any significant change. 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by WFargo

[G17fan]

1 hour ago, WFargo said:

Yes, the buff in fact short strokes the slide a bit.

I use the blue plastic buffs. 

With my 1911's in 9mm this 'disables' the sling-shot method for slide-lock reloads, but I use the slide stop on slide-lock reloads so no problem there. 

The Limited and Open 2011's don't stay open on empty mags so no problem there. 

I have tried to see / feel the difference between shooting with or without a buff.  I do not notice a difference to be honest. 

A fellow Classic shooter in the Netherlands does use lighter bullets, light recoil spring and buffs to short stroke and create a shorter/faster cycle and seems really satisfied with this set up.  Again for me, it's difficult to notice any significant change. 

 

Thank you sir!

[Squirrel45]

 

i have also had issues with them. I have tried them in Rugers, Springfields and Les Baers. All with the same result as mentioned above. The only gun I run buffers is in my CZ Shadow II minor power factor of the 9 does not seem to tear it up much. But in my 45's a 215pf pin load rips them up in a no time. 

 

 

[TRG65]

One of the first things I do with any gun is install a buffer.  I have run them in CZ, Glock, Beretta, and various 1911.  On the 1911's, I have two types.  I have a thick and a normal.  Every gun I've tried will run on the "normal" but like others have mentioned, the thick (or a double stack) can cause issues with slide lock.  For the guns that have the issue, I just run a normal.  I have tended to run lighter springs, so I just use this as insurance.  I can't remember ever having one tear up to the point it caused a malfunction.  However, I only run 9's for matches (SS, production, CO) so mine don't take the abuse of major loads.

[Service Desk]

I use them in all my 1911/2011 style guns in the hope that they are prolonging the life of the guns. I change them out regularly and don't cry over 12 bones a packet....but my Scottish heritage would make me cry a lot for a new slide or frame, especially if a few packets of buffers could have avoided it.

[synchronicity]

No in .45acp, yes in .45super.

[yigal]

9 hours ago, Service Desk said:

I use them in all my 1911/2011 style guns in the hope that they are prolonging the life of the guns. I change them out regularly and don't cry over 12 bones a packet....but my Scottish heritage would make me cry a lot for a new slide or frame, especially if a few packets of buffers could have avoided it.

That's common sense and not your Scottish  heritage

[KAYZER]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:53 PM, WFargo said:

Yes, the buff in fact short strokes the slide a bit.

I use the blue plastic buffs. 

With my 1911's in 9mm this 'disables' the sling-shot method for slide-lock reloads, but I use the slide stop on slide-lock reloads so no problem there. 

The Limited and Open 2011's don't stay open on empty mags so no problem there. 

I have tried to see / feel the difference between shooting with or without a buff.  I do not notice a difference to be honest. 

A fellow Classic shooter in the Netherlands does use lighter bullets, light recoil spring and buffs to short stroke and create a shorter/faster cycle and seems really satisfied with this set up.  Again for me, it's difficult to notice any significant change. 

 

Man that dude sounds like a tinkerer.  . Yeah, I use light mainsprings, and light recoils. And prefer a snappy cycle, which seems more predictable for me than the dampened cycle form let's say a 147. The net effect is slide velocity and you do want to do what you can to lessen the impact on the frame. The side effect of "stroking" the slide is a nice bonus but not the intended goal. 

[jimbullet]

I've always used shok buffs and have not noticed significant short stroking that makes the pistol fail. Have used them for years and my rule of thumb is to replace them yearly - because I shoot a lot during the year. That way, they dont cause issues if they are heavily beaten. Besides that's only a few cents each as an insurance for your frame.

Edited March 13, 2022 by jimbullet