How To: Deal with a DQ

[UpYoursPal]

I should have been DQed, but....

[TK66]

This is not something I really like to talk about but... WTH    I earned a DQ at "The Battle for the North Coast" last summer.  It was such an embarrassment but I own it and have learned from it.  I was running open using a DAA Alpha X holster. I started with it in the unlocked position, leaning over with my hands low on a barricade, Had the stage solid in my head, gonna burn it down...lol     On the beep I sprang up stepping to the first shooting position and as I was going for the draw, the gun hit my hand on the way to the ground.  At first I wasn't sure what the heck was going on.  I quickly realized my gun popped out of the holster on my first movement.  So...  There I was standing looking at my gun on the ground.  Such a damn embarrassment!  

I couldn't let that go to waste.  I learned from it..  Learned more about the limitations of my equipment and I'm 100% confident that such a thing will never happen again.

 

Again, this was very embarrassing and is the first time I put it out there..

 

[Chris51080]

I’m relatively new to the game, but got my first DQ a little over one year into competing. 
 

The stage had a shooting box where I had to engage 4 targets, then run to a second box to engage the remaining targets. I want to say 22 rounds or so, regardless I had to do a reload. I chose to reload while running between shooting boxes. 
 

I had been indexing my trigger finger on the side stop to make sure that I kept it off of the trigger during reloads. Unfortunately, this created a situation where I ended up touching the trigger and setting the gun off. Somehow, that shot ended up about a foot away from my next target, but I was neither in the shooting zone, nor engaging the target and intending to shoot. I earned that DQ. 
 

I packed up, stuck around, and ran the score sheet for the rest of the day. Learned quite a bit by talking to two of the other competitors who gave pointers to avoid that from happening again. I’m now trying to get my trigger finger off of the gun and cranked away from it as much as possible during reloads. 
 

One thing I noticed about it all, was that prior to reviewing my video, I was certain that the gun went off two steps further down my run than it had gone off. I had assumed that it was inserting the magazine into the magwell had jostled my finger enough to have it contact the trigger. Nope, the video showed that I simply had a hard step on the ground that jostled things. 
 

 

[StefVanHauwe]

6 hours ago, Chris51080 said:

I’m relatively new to the game, but got my first DQ a little over one year into competing. 
 

The stage had a shooting box where I had to engage 4 targets, then run to a second box to engage the remaining targets. I want to say 22 rounds or so, regardless I had to do a reload. I chose to reload while running between shooting boxes. 
 

I had been indexing my trigger finger on the side stop to make sure that I kept it off of the trigger during reloads. Unfortunately, this created a situation where I ended up touching the trigger and setting the gun off. Somehow, that shot ended up about a foot away from my next target, but I was neither in the shooting zone, nor engaging the target and intending to shoot. I earned that DQ. 
 

I packed up, stuck around, and ran the score sheet for the rest of the day. Learned quite a bit by talking to two of the other competitors who gave pointers to avoid that from happening again. I’m now trying to get my trigger finger off of the gun and cranked away from it as much as possible during reloads. 
 

One thing I noticed about it all, was that prior to reviewing my video, I was certain that the gun went off two steps further down my run than it had gone off. I had assumed that it was inserting the magazine into the magwell had jostled my finger enough to have it contact the trigger. Nope, the video showed that I simply had a hard step on the ground that jostled things. 
 

 

Thanks for sharing. DQ's need to be viewed in a positive sense, helping you to grow as a shooter and motivating you to do better and improve your self image.

[Chris51080]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:43 PM, StefVanHauwe said:

Thanks for sharing. DQ's need to be viewed in a positive sense, helping you to grow as a shooter and motivating you to do better and improve your self image.

That’s very much what one of the other competitors told me. Learn from it, and help others to not make the same mistake. 

[valerko]

depends on a call 

 

[jim vaughan]

When a DQ is based on an RO's observation on a difficult 180 infringement due to a range setup with DQ traps then I feel sorry for the shooter.

The RO's statement that you exceeded 180 by a few degrees does not hold water with me.

Similarly I feel for competitors that trip on a range obstruction and are DQ'd.

For the rest, yes learn from it.

[Joe4d]

On 7/29/2022 at 8:59 PM, valerko said:

depends on a call 

 

only made it 2 seconds,,  , unsafe and probably deserved to be DQ'd  
Quite obvious he doesnt care about others safety... I mean good grief driving down the road staring at his selfie video screen instead of the road.

Far as 180 DQ's,, Its been awhile, buy I have RO'd and CRO'd a lot of shooters. Cant speak for today or what others have happened, but I have NEVER seen a DQ based on a few degrees... 
The ones I have called,  I saw peanut gallery diving for cover, Tacticool guy doing a speed reholster and missing the holster and flipping gun backwards so my scorekeeper saw muzzle . and a few falls where muzzle wasnt controlled.  
Unless things shave changed I wouldnt suspect 181 DQ's are a problem.

[coframer]

DQ’d twice this year at local matches with an AD both times. First one was rushing a reload. Second one shot an array went to move and bam. Owned them both. Stayed to help out afterwards. Down side was each one was about a week out from shooting a major match and I carried it with me to the matches. Funny how that can stick with you. Live and learn. 

[StefVanHauwe]

10 hours ago, coframer said:

DQ’d twice this year at local matches with an AD both times. First one was rushing a reload. Second one shot an array went to move and bam. Owned them both. Stayed to help out afterwards. Down side was each one was about a week out from shooting a major match and I carried it with me to the matches. Funny how that can stick with you. Live and learn. 

Thanks for sharing! DQ's do have a serious mental impact, but it's important to process, learn and move on. Nice of you to have stayed and helped!

[TK66]

After my DQ last year at the Battle for the North Coast match I went back again last weekend to the same match. The DQ stayed in my head all year! I learned from my mistake and moved fwd.  This year no DQ and actually did well. I'm glad to get that off my back!

[RangerTrace]

This one is close to getting locked.  Be polite or don't post.  

[THM7]

Got DQ’ed at Mystery Mountain 3 gun…the one year I actually did not pay for it (I was better then). Shooting box fed Saiga 12 which actually was extremely reliable. I put safety on within such force the top cover came flying off….and unknown to me when safety extends close to vertical it actually drops hammer. Quite spectacular when top cover blew off 30 feet into air. Oh well…I continued with squad taping and help reset. Disappointing yes but there is always next time. I don’t get too upset over stuff like that.

[StefVanHauwe]

11 minutes ago, THM7 said:

Got DQ’ed at Mystery Mountain 3 gun…the one year I actually did not pay for it (I was better then). Shooting box fed Saiga 12 which actually was extremely reliable. I put safety on within such force the top cover came flying off….and unknown to me when safety extends close to vertical it actually drops hammer. Quite spectacular when top cover blew off 30 feet into air. Oh well…I continued with squad taping and help reset. Disappointing yes but there is always next time. I don’t get too upset over stuff like that.

Thanks for sharing

[Blackstone45]

49 minutes ago, THM7 said:

Got DQ’ed at Mystery Mountain 3 gun…the one year I actually did not pay for it (I was better then). Shooting box fed Saiga 12 which actually was extremely reliable. I put safety on within such force the top cover came flying off….and unknown to me when safety extends close to vertical it actually drops hammer. Quite spectacular when top cover blew off 30 feet into air. Oh well…I continued with squad taping and help reset. Disappointing yes but there is always next time. I don’t get too upset over stuff like that.

Ouch. Surely that wouldn't be a DQ if it was clearly seen that your fingers were outside of the trigger guard? Or did the shot impact within 3m of you or in an unsafe direction?

[Joe4d]

gun goes bang when you dont want it to should always be a DQ.. Whether it is a malfunction or not. Either the gun is unsafe or you are. 
Note I said SHOULD,,, not getting into range lawyer discussion.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Blackstone45 said:

Ouch. Surely that wouldn't be a DQ if it was clearly seen that your fingers were outside of the trigger guard? Or did the shot impact within 3m of you or in an unsafe direction?

That was 3gun so who knows but in USPSA the gun only has to go bang for a DQ, no matter weather you pull the trigger or not. Except for detonation

[CHA-LEE]

All gun handling MUST be above reproach 100% of the time or you WILL get DQed if an RO even "Thinks" they see you do something unsafe.

 

Here are some Realities to Accept and Deal with...

 

1 - Should the RO's be 100% positive that they witnessed an unsafe action which justifies a DQ? Absolutely.

 

2 - Are RO's human and make mistakes on really close safety calls? Absolutely.

 

3 - Are there RO's out there LOOKING for opportunities to DQ people? Absolutely.

 

4 - Do some competitors get away with unsafe gun handling at local matches then get caught (DQed) doing the same unsafe stuff at major matches and whine about it? Absolutely.

 

5 - Does your behavior during and after a DQ show others your true character as a person? Absolutely.

 

6 - Are some competitors willing to circumvent their integrity in order to weasel their way out of a DQ? Absolutely.

 

7 - Does your chosen decision to not understand or avoid the above realities justify circumventing safety rules so you can continue to participate in the match? Absolutely NOT!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by CHA-LEE

[CC3D]

2 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Do some competitors get away with unsafe gun handling at local matches then get caught (DQed) doing the same unsafe stuff at major matches and whine about it? Absolutely.

 

As a local only guy going to his first major in a few months, what sort of things are you referring to here? 

[CHA-LEE]

4 minutes ago, CC3D said:

 

As a local only guy going to his first major in a few months, what sort of things are you referring to here? 

 

The list is endless. ROing and Officiating in General is usually more lax at the Local Match level than it is at Major matches. Read the rule book then observe what does or doesn't happen at your local matches from a Safety Rule enforcement perspective.

[motosapiens]

28 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

All gun handling MUST be above reproach 100% of the time or you WILL get DQed if an RO even "Thinks" they see you do something unsafe.

 

Here are some Realities to Accept and Deal with...

 

1 - Should the RO's be 100% positive that they witnessed an unsafe action which justifies a DQ? Absolutely.

 

2 - Are RO's human and make mistakes on really close safety calls? Absolutely.

 

3 - Are there RO's out there LOOKING for opportunities to DQ people? Absolutely.

 

4 - Do some competitors get away with unsafe gun handling at local matches then get caught (DQed) doing the same unsafe stuff at major matches and whine about it? Absolutely.

 

5 - Does your behavior during and after a DQ show others your true character as a person? Absolutely.

 

6 - Are some competitors willing to circumvent their integrity in order to weasel their way out of a DQ? Absolutely.

 

7 - Does your chosen decision to not understand or avoid the above realities justify circumventing safety rules so you can continue to participate in the match? Absolutely NOT!!!

 

only thing I would add is regarding #2 that it's a really good idea to just not even be close on safety calls. I point the gun more downrange than I need to when moving side to side or backwards to make it near impossible for an RO to make a poor judgement call.

Edited October 4, 2022 by motosapiens

[Boomstick303]

3 minutes ago, CC3D said:

As a local only guy going to his first major in a few months, what sort of things are you referring to here? 

 

If local clubs are loose with DQ rules and let people slide when they should have been DQ'd it becomes common for participants of that club to become comfortable being lax with the rules that could lead to DQs.   

 

There was a local club here that would allow shooters to finger bang their PCC during un-bagging.  This includes turning on optics, etc, This is clearly against the rules and they were surprised once it was  pointed out to them during a pre-match brief.

 

As an RO there are instances where I want to be sure I saw what I saw, meaning the gun typically will pass the 180 and not be at the 180 for me to call that.  It rather obvious if the gun continues past the 180 where it makes the call easy.  In an instance like the video on this thread where sweeping someone's arm/body the impetuses on keeping the shooter safe as in keeping the shooter from shooting themselves, I am going to not be so lenient.  From the video it looks like a sweep of the arm occurs to me.  If it did not it would have been close enough for me to say STOP.   The OP does not help matters by throwing his weak arm down and back right after the infraction did/seems to occur.  ROs do not have slow motion to help them make the perfect call all of the time.  In real time with the movement of the gun, weak arm up, then snapping of the weak arm down, would make it seem like sweeping of the arm occurred.

 

There is an easy way to prevent that and its to hold the gun high.  When you don't you place yourself and the RO in a crappy position and you can find yourself DQd.   If the gun is held high the RO is not put in a position to make any judgement call.  

 

A good rule of thumb is if your Brain indicates for you to YELL stop, you are making the correct call.  Do mistakes happen in these instances?  Of course.  But we have to remind ourselves that safety comes first.  It that means blowing calls on a rare occasion so be it.     

 

I have not been in USPSA a long time, but I have yet to see ROs, that are out there to "GET" people.  That is not to say they  don't exist, but I would think it is super rare.   

[RangerTrace]

2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

only thing I would add is regarding #2 that it's a really good idea to just not even be close on safety calls. I point the gun more downrange than I need to when moving side to side or backwards to make it near impossible for an RO to make a poor judgement call.

Totally agree.  Early on I was taught to run with the bore to the berm rather than pumping your arms which "might" help you run faster.  I watch Grey Beard Actual run his stages and I keep wondering how he hasn't been DQ'd yet.  Frenchie does it right.

[JoeMKY]

Ok hold my beer.

 

in 2011 at a 3 gun match there was a 180 trap which can be argued that it wasn’t a break, but no big deal it was the last stage at the match.

 

in 2015 at a 3 gun, a possible flagged my self, I was slightly doubting that call but since I wasn’t 100 percent on it I didn’t argue.

 

in 2017 at a uspsa level ii match a 180 on the last stage.  Not a trap but at the unload and show cleared I had it cleared and the ro repeated it again since he was behind me and could see and I turned a bit so he could and that was a 180 break.

 

in 2021 at a idpa match my 1911 was having extractor issues and when I unload and showed clear I thought the bullet dropped in though the bottom, at the angle I could see that is dropped back in the barrel and at the slide down hammer down command it went off. 3 stages into the match.

 

Normally I don’t shoot in Jan and feb cause it’s too cold but early this year there was a big prs match in February that I wanted to do so I shot in 20 degree weather by stage 3 I couldn’t feel the trigger with my fingers. When I tried to steady the rifle to hit the 2nd target in the 2nd string I didn’t feel that my finger was on the trigger and the round went off early about 100 yard down from a 300 yard target.  The ro asked “do you mean to do that” and I told him the truth and said no. So that was a nd dq.

 

so many lessons learned. Watch for 180 traps. If the ro can’t see the empty chamber ask the to come around or something to keep it down range.  Have a back up gun if it’s not extracting right during a match change it out. And there is a reason I don’t shoot in cold weather and I should stick to having an off season from matches or at least be more weather aware before going.

 

what did I do when I got dq…. I stuck around and helped with pasting and what ever else was needed for help and watched the other members shoot.  In the prs since there are no targets to paste I just help with spotting to verify they hit the targets.

 

yeah it sucked, but i learned something from it to pass on to others.  No need to get pi$$y about it, just accept it and learn from it in my opinion.