If they recognized it, would you shoot it ?

[revolver45]

Also, after a little over a year of gathering information to have this presented, I never once heard about any proposal to keep track of the Revolver shooters in RFPI or RFPO. Have you?

[10mmdave]

16 hours ago, ZackJones said:

I will tell you about an idea I was thinking about on the drive home from WSSC though related to Rimfire Revolver. A couple of times Sherwyn has mentioned sub-categories for certain guns. Using Rimfire Revolvers as an example we could create a sub-category under RFPI and RFPO for Revolver. This way when you register and shoot a match with your revolver we could track usage over time. This would give us good data to use to make an informed decision on the viability of such a division.

The above example is the way Steel Challenge was run years ago imo, new gun platform shows up, let's create a category for them. If you are going to record the different guns times then it seems like it would be just as easy to make different divisions.

 

A little history on why we are proposing these new divisions.........

This all started because a generous man wanted to offer a $500 prize to the "Revolver Master" at a large East Coast Steel Challenge match (his own funds btw), after talking with the match officials they thought it was a great idea but they had no idea how to use Practiscore to do it since the s/w didn't recognize the revo rimfire guns, and if it wasn't a USPSA recognized division how could they "legally" do it ?

 

This brought us to "hey ?? how come us revo rimfire guys aren't recognized" and "jeez, I wonder how many other rimfire revo shooters there are out there?"

 

So, as I mentioned in my last reply to Zack’s post, we started proposing something.

 

Now granted, folks have mentioned there is a way to do this for lower tired matches but our ultimate goal is to compare rimfire revo times with the rest of the country/world, not just at major matches or the occasional bigger state type area match.

[10mmdave]

46 minutes ago, revolver45 said:

Dave. I did have a conversation Jake about this and it was at his suggestion that we proceed through the Area 7 Director with this proposal. I seems like there is a lack of communication again, on this subject within the Steel Challenge powers to be. 

Yes, that was the USPSA starting point, I was just being nice in my replies and not mentioning names

 

[10mmdave]

45 minutes ago, revolver45 said:

Also, after a little over a year of gathering information to have this presented, I never once heard about any proposal to keep track of the Revolver shooters in RFPI or RFPO. Have you?

(I guess I have to brush up on my multi post reply technique)

 

I knew this was going to be a long road revolver45, with the 30k loss at the WSSC this year and new elections coming up that all adds to it, maybe now that we have Zack's ear we can get this worked out.

[10mmdave]

16 hours ago, ZackJones said:

There is no formal request from anyone that I have any knowledge of that has brought this before the board. I've participated in every BoD meeting this year.

Annnd one final reply, our A7 Director did bring our initial request up at a BOD meeting back in Jan/Feb/Mar of 2021 and it was shot down due to not being a formal proposal, thought it was covered here in an earlier post but it might have been in another forum.

[varminter22]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:45 PM, ZackJones said:

There are a bunch of things in the works for Steel Challenge in the coming months. I would recommend everyone go read the January in person BoD minutes to see what exactly I presented. It's a big enough topic that it deserves its own thread. I have held off saying anything because I was curious to see if anyone would mention anything. Seems Steel Shooters don't read the minutes. Going forward you probably will want to ;). 

I'm having a hard time finding the January in-person BoD minutes.  

 

Might you provide a link please?

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, varminter22 said:

I'm having a hard time finding the January in-person BoD minutes.  

 

Might you provide a link please?

https://uspsa.org/bod_minutes

[AzShooter]

How doyou lose 30K on a match?  Something is seriously wrong there. 

[revolver45]

10 hours ago, varminter22 said:

I'm having a hard time finding the January in-person BoD minutes.  

 

Might you provide a link please?

I read the minutes from the BOD January meeting and other than you being appointed as the head of the Steel Challenge committee, there wasn't anything said about RFPI/RFPO Revolver. 

[Squirrel45]

15 minutes ago, revolver45 said:

there wasn't anything said about RFPI/RFPO Revolver

Dang....

[revolver45]

27 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said:

Dang....

I'll keep look over the minutes for all meetings but so far nothing on Rimfire.  It was asked by another member to recognize Optic Revolver in USPSA but that's it as far as Revolver goes. 

[10mmdave]

13 hours ago, Squirrel45 said:

Dang....

Not to worry Squirrel, we are working on it

[l98ster]

Absolutely!  This would be great!

 

George- A68613

[ZackJones]

On 5/5/2022 at 10:30 AM, 10mmdave said:

I also have to admit I had not heard your name mentioned on this forum or others during this time and I honestly thought you were up to other things, then imagine my surprise when just after I submitted our proposal for RRFO/RRFI I read that you have submitted a proposal for the changes/additions for 2022 !

 

I'm just a nobody. I'm not surprised you hadn't heard of me before :). 

 

If you don't mind please send me the proposal you guys had written up even if the data isn't current I'd like to see it (zack@uspsa.org). One idea that has been bounced around is the ability to track activity by Category. For example MD's could add RRFO/RRFI as categories. Your division would still be RFPO/RFPI respectively but by tagging your entry as an RRFO/RRFI category we could track activity over a period of time. I know the rules committee will be looking into this sort of thing for a possible change on the USPSA handgun side so now would be a good time to present this to them for additional consideration. 

 

[10mmdave]

Ok Zack, I will send you the proposal we made up and sent to the board, thanks.

[10mmdave]

50 minutes ago, 10mmdave said:

Ok Zack, I will send you the proposal we made up and sent to the board, thanks.

Done !

[AR_James]

From the 7/19/2022 Rules Committee Meeting Report:

 

Rimfire Revolver in SCSA competition:

The committee discussed adding a rimfire revolver division to Steel Challenge rules. The committee decided not to add this new division. Reasons were: no significant member demand for a new revolver division, costs to matches to recognize another division, no advantage to USPSA in terms of increasing membership or overall participation in higher level matches.

[revolver45]

And that's why a lot of us will be switching over to the Rim Challenge Matches at our Clubs. Again. Thanks for nothing USPSA. 

[Gregg K]

3 hours ago, revolver45 said:

And that's why a lot of us will be switching over to the Rim Challenge Matches at our Clubs. Again. Thanks for nothing USPSA. 

Looking at the RCSA rulebook, they only have 2 divisions, Open or Limited. No special revolver division there either.

I also see no form of classifications.

[revolver45]

15 minutes ago, Gregg K said:

Looking at the RCSA rulebook, they only have 2 divisions, Open or Limited. No special revolver division there either.

I also see no form of classifications.

Local Clubs in my area have been separating the handguns class to auto and revolver irons or optical. It's done when there are enough revolver shooters. At least they make the attempt and acknowledge that it's really not a big deal to do. 

[Darqusoull13]

3 hours ago, revolver45 said:

And that's why a lot of us will be switching over to the Rim Challenge Matches at our Clubs. Again. Thanks for nothing USPSA. 

I know it feels like all 3 of you were slighted, but the reality is there are not enough participants to make any difference. 

The best way to change that is to be a good enabler like our "Token Revolver" guy Jason. He's let a ton of people borrow his wheel guns and gear to the point that there were 5 entries out of 45 at our last local SCSA match. Most of those folks wanted to do it because Jason showed them it was fun. 

When you've got 300 people competing weekly in revolver rimfire you might be able to get some attention. 

[revolver45]

3 minutes ago, Darqusoull13 said:

I know it feels like all 3 of you were slighted, but the reality is there are not enough participants to make any difference. 

The best way to change that is to be a good enabler like our "Token Revolver" guy Jason. He's let a ton of people borrow his wheel guns and gear to the point that there were 5 entries out of 45 at our last local SCSA match. Most of those folks wanted to do it because Jason showed them it was fun. 

When you've got 300 people competing weekly in revolver rimfire you might be able to get some attention. 

And it's people with the mentality like yours that is a big part of the problem.  First off, in our area, we have over 18 people shooting revolver. If you choose not to  shoot one, great. But don't stop the ones that do. My suggestion to you is be a part of the solution or stay on the porch. 

[Darqusoull13]

2 hours ago, revolver45 said:

And it's people with the mentality like yours that is a big part of the problem.  First off, in our area, we have over 18 people shooting revolver. If you choose not to  shoot one, great. But don't stop the ones that do. My suggestion to you is be a part of the solution or stay on the porch. 

I'd still rather people focus on things that will move the needle. 

18 people in an area. Is that your USPSA Area? Because that number is still exceedingly low. 

Are all 18 shooters members? Have any of them emailed their Area Director? 

I got off the proverbial porch to play in a dead division because of our revolver guy being so outgoing and welcoming. For 8 years he's been 1 of maaaaybe 4 active revolver shooters in our Area I can think of. 

I'll always design matches to be revolver friendly as best I can. But at the end of the day, it's a novelty. Nothing is stopping you from continuing to run your rimfire wheelgun in SCSA in a current division. Betting lunch and beating your rimfire revolver homies at a match is still more fun than a silly plaque anyway.

All you're asking for with "Recognition" is a plaque. 

[Joe4d]

Shopping for a Gp100 or 617 22 now,,, Id shoot it in rimfire with or without its own division. Shooting againt myslef anyways.
Have shot against myself at pin matches, using  a 7 shot 686 and a 6" 1911... Thing I noticed ? the guys that practice a bit tended to win way more than who had an auto or revolver

 

[AR_James]

10 hours ago, Gregg K said:

Looking at the RCSA rulebook, they only have 2 divisions, Open or Limited. No special revolver division there either.

I also see no form of classifications.

 

Yep, only two divisions; but they have Cowboy/Cowgirl Special Recognition Category for single action revolvers.  It is up to the match whether or not they recognize it.  It use to be pretty common to see it included, but it is much more rare these days as less and less folks participated in the category.  Plus, RCSA is .22 only; so that excludes the center fire folks.