If they recognized it, would you shoot it ?

[NMBOpen]

15 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

I shot my 617 all summer for our local Steel Challenge Matches and had a ball shooting in the RFPI.  It's what I like.  It would be nice and I know of a few more shooters that want to come out and shoot their .22s as well.  There are no prizes at the local matches so why not let them at least be recognized in Practiscore for their efforts?

Match Director can add Divisions in PractiScore under Shooters.  Just created a test match as SCSA, and added RFWI and RFWO (W for wheelgun, RFRI and RFRO already used for rifle).

Edited September 22, 2021 by NMBOpen

[Thomas H]

15 hours ago, AzShooter said:

I shot my 617 all summer for our local Steel Challenge Matches and had a ball shooting in the RFPI.  It's what I like.  It would be nice and I know of a few more shooters that want to come out and shoot their .22s as well.  There are no prizes at the local matches so why not let them at least be recognized in Practiscore for their efforts?

 

As someone pointed out, MDs can add divisions as they like--the only problem is that when the scores are reported to SCSA, then those scores don't count for anything unless the MD goes back and changes those folks back to RFPI/RFPO before officially reporting the scores.  (I'll note that given that SC is straight-time scoring, everyone shooting a revo shouldn't have any issues comparing scores already, I'd think.  Other than the "percentage of the division winner" part, but a calculator can fix that.)

 

Has someone already mentioned petitioning the board (or at least petitioning the ADs) to add RFOR and RFIR as probationary divisions for a year or two to see what numbers they'd have, and after that time discussing whether or not to keep them?  (If they did, I must have missed it.)

 

I've seen "we should add these divisions!" comments but the normal process (to the best of my knowledge) is for new potential divisions to be first created on a probationary basis, which means that local matches can add them, but that majors don't have to initially (unless they want to do so) and so then you'd be able to collect data over time on how much people shoot them, and use that to attempt to convince the BoD to keep them as official divisions.

 

If people want to do this---how many of you are from different Areas, and therefore could each send a member request to your AD asking the BoD to officially discuss (and therefore, put on the record) adding rimfire revolver divisions on a probationary basis?  How many ADs could you cover?  If you could put in requests to half the ADs (or more!) then that should at least get _something_ going, I'd think.

 

 

 

 

 

[mchapman]

3 hours ago, Thomas H said:

?  (If they did, I must have missed it.)

Yeh I think you did miss it, try looking at the the very 1st post, you know the post that started this mini-series. Dave was asked by the powers that be/ad/bod, that he talked to about putting together some numbers and proposals to warrant or justify adding these divisions. A simple yes or no would have been sufficient, but much too easy for some I guess.

[AR_James]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:30 PM, Thomas H said:

I mean, ICORE is literally ABOUT revolvers, and they do a ton to support matches.  And yet, they are having trouble with numbers also.  What exactly can an organization do to help this?  And what of that is SCSA not currently doing?

 

And who knows?  Maybe even someone who doesn't shoot revolver currently might have a good idea.  After all, if the point is to get more people to shoot revolvers including rimfire revolvers, we should probably talk to the others who DON'T do it right now, and see if anything like that would make them interested.  Saying "you don't shoot a revolver, so you should shut up" probably isn't going to help grow those numbers.

 

Excellent post with a lot of valid points.  

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

I was looking at the results from the 2021 World Speed Shooting Championship, which you'd expect to have the best shooters and a big turn out being the most prestigious match of the year. The revolver divisions had  about a dozen shooters each. I'd expect adding 2 more revolver divisions would see similar participation. 

 

So that means they could do a super squad and have the entire division on the same squad and if you beat 2 guys you can claim to be top 10 in the world. 

[Thomas H]

3 hours ago, mchapman said:

Yeh I think you did miss it, try looking at the the very 1st post, you know the post that started this mini-series. Dave was asked by the powers that be/ad/bod, that he talked to about putting together some numbers and proposals to warrant or justify adding these divisions. A simple yes or no would have been sufficient, but much too easy for some I guess.

It is always interesting when people react in that fashion.  Odd how many people are hostile to discussion.   Particularly when there has been plenty of other discussion that they haven't been hostile to...

 

The original post said:  "The PtB has said come back with some numbers and a written proposal so here I am asking the BE Universe what they think. "

Which is interesting. His AD told him that?  The BoD collectively told him that?  The President at the time told him that?

 

Because those are three different things...and it seems odd that the Board would ask someone else to provide data to them, when their organization would literally be the best source of data.

 

We all know that Benos people are a limited subset of shooters, and therefore a poll here won't actually tell us how much interest there is among most shooters.  Creating a poll online and asking USPSA HQ to add it to the next weekly email would get a much larger set of data---or show directly that few people care.  Either way, that would be useful to know, and something that any AD could do/request to be done fairly easily.  It would certainly be a larger dataset than what we've got here. 

 

That isn't to say that asking here couldn't be useful---but again, 15 people on Benos won't convince anyone.  However, asking on Benos how many people would be interested, and of them, how many Areas are covered so that people could simultaneously ask multiple directors to look into the same thing, is definitely something that would be likely to at least make the Board discuss the idea--and therefore, discussing that idea here is useful, no matter how much some people apparently want folks to only answer yes or no (except to other posts that they don't mind).

 

If you want to convince the board to do something, you'll need a useful data set, and enough people asking about it that the board has to react to it.  Hence my commentary.

 

 

[10mmdave]

I don't have the "cut & paste" skills to answer/reply to all of ThomsH and the others comments so here goes the best I can do.....

 

As far as the request to come up with some info ?  That did indeed come from HQ and my AD

 

As far as USPSA not supporting Revolvers, we're all in this together, if I shoot a match with a revo I expect to see my name in Front Site (USPSA mag ??), even if I am the only Revo shooter     I pay my dues just like everyone else.

 

Practiscore letting you add a division that SC does not recognize is useless for comparing times to other shooters around the country, only works for that shoot.

As folks have mentioned in this thread, they are already shooting a rimfire revo in SC and their times are being compared to semi-auto times.

 

Will more people shoot Rimfire Revo ???  I don't know !!  I've already seen a number of new revo shooters this past season and when asked why the answer usually is that they wanted to give it a try or that they had a lot of revo ammo in storage and wanted to use it up instead of their auto ammo.

 

Talking about ICORE here has nothing to do with the thread.

 

Numbers, it's been a tough couple of years/seasons for attending matches, plus the cost of attending matches is out of control, annnnd there is a primer shortage out there and the worse to find are the Federals that all us revo folks need, I'm down to 1k and have no plans to spend $90/1k for new primers so I'll be shooting A LOT of rimfire in the future I think.

 

And somewhere in the past posts it was mentioned that we could submit articles to support/promote Revolver shooting, that sounds like a great idea, something I will have to look into.

 

I believe there are other threads to discuss the problems (real or imagined) with Steel challenge and I would like that discussion to stay over there, as the first post asked, if Steel Challenge recognized Rimfire Revo Iron and Open, would you shoot it ? (Maybe you already do ?? Let us know)

 

 

[10mmdave]

This topic will becoming up with BOD next month or the next,

let your Area folks know you want to see the addition.

[Darqusoull13]

11 hours ago, 10mmdave said:

This topic will becoming up with BOD next month or the next,

let your Area folks know you want to see the addition.

What specifically is coming up for discussion? 
 

@ZackJones

[xpierrat]

I will note as a RO at worlds last 4 yrs I have seen a number of wheel shooters shoot a wheel rimfire as a warm up knowing that against the traditional rfpo and rfpi guns they had little chance but did it for the joy ( and practice ) anyway

Edited February 16, 2022 by xpierrat

[revolver45]

We're hoping they put the politics aside and add Revolver Rimfire as it's own class. I'm sure more people will shoot it than they think. Let's try it and see where it goes. 

[10mmdave]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

What specifically is coming up for discussion? 
 

@ZackJones

I should say I hope it comes up, My Area Director can bring it up but if the majority of the board doesn't want to talk about it then no joy.

Edited February 16, 2022 by 10mmdave

[Sinister4]

Sure why not ? I'll shoot anything at steel  

[10mmdave]

Deleted

Edited February 16, 2022 by 10mmdave
i'm in the wrong thread !

[AzShooter]

I often shoot my 617 for our Steel Challenge Matches.  It's a lot of fun and at my age I'm only competing against myself but after 40 years of primarily shooting revolver my SCSA scores are lower with the revo than with my auto.  I just feel more comfortable with the revolver and will continue to enjoy it for years to come.

 

BTW I ordered a RevUp kit for the action.  It sounds interesting and well, it's a new gadget, I can afford it and I want it.

 

I've got enough DS-10 loaders and loading blocks to get my through a match very easily.  I keep 16 loaded speed loaders in my bag and can shoot 3 stages before I have to recharge them.  "Commercial": The DS-10s are the best.  They hold the bullets better and the cases will not fall out when doing a reload but just drop in as fast as my old Comp IIIs in my 686.

 

My 617 has been up graded a plenty with a new Dawson green fiber optic sight, LPA rear sight and an Apex Mass Drive Hammer with a set of Hogue Big Butt grips.  Trigger pull is around 7 pounds.

 

 

[ZackJones]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:39 AM, Darqusoull13 said:

What specifically is coming up for discussion? 
 

@ZackJones

Thanks for tagging me. I participated in the January in-person BoD meeting down in Tampa FL. There was a very brief side discussion regarding Rimfire Revolver but nothing official was discussed at the meeting. I do know that a couple of years a go it was on the agenda, brought up, and it failed to get any interest. We (USPSA) have the ability to add provisional divisions but historically every provisional division has become an official one. 

 

There are a bunch of things in the works for Steel Challenge in the coming months. I would recommend everyone go read the January in person BoD minutes to see what exactly I presented. It's a big enough topic that it deserves its own thread. I have held off saying anything because I was curious to see if anyone would mention anything. Seems Steel Shooters don't read the minutes. Going forward you probably will want to ;). 

[Hoops]

55 minutes ago, ZackJones said:

Thanks for tagging me. I participated in the January in-person BoD meeting down in Tampa FL. There was a very brief side discussion regarding Rimfire Revolver but nothing official was discussed at the meeting. I do know that a couple of years a go it was on the agenda, brought up, and it failed to get any interest. We (USPSA) have the ability to add provisional divisions but historically every provisional division has become an official one. 

 

There are a bunch of things in the works for Steel Challenge in the coming months. I would recommend everyone go read the January in person BoD minutes to see what exactly I presented. It's a big enough topic that it deserves its own thread. I have held off saying anything because I was curious to see if anyone would mention anything. Seems Steel Shooters don't read the minutes. Going forward you probably will want to ;). 

Zack, would you consider starting a new topic/string summarizing the points and some of the thoughts were behind what is written in the BOD minutes?

[Darqusoull13]

12 hours ago, ZackJones said:

Thanks for tagging me. I participated in the January in-person BoD meeting down in Tampa FL. There was a very brief side discussion regarding Rimfire Revolver but nothing official was discussed at the meeting. I do know that a couple of years a go it was on the agenda, brought up, and it failed to get any interest. We (USPSA) have the ability to add provisional divisions but historically every provisional division has become an official one. 

 

There are a bunch of things in the works for Steel Challenge in the coming months. I would recommend everyone go read the January in person BoD minutes to see what exactly I presented. It's a big enough topic that it deserves its own thread. I have held off saying anything because I was curious to see if anyone would mention anything. Seems Steel Shooters don't read the minutes. Going forward you probably will want to ;). 

Yep, after reading the minutes when they released them I was very happy with your new role. I'm a USPSA shooter too though so I suppose that's the part of me that read the minutes 

Jokes aside, knowing all the work going on right now, adding a division for 10 shooters doesn't seem like a good use of resources. Expanding WSSC to 2 x All 8 Stages to double match slots sure does sound like a good idea though. 

[ede]

Been shooting revolvers in rimfire for years.

[Squirrel45]

Any movement / news on this at the latest meeting? 

 

 

[10mmdave]

1 hour ago, Squirrel45 said:

Any movement / news on this at the latest meeting? 

 

 

I will check Squirrel, been meaning to but with Worlds going on figured folks be busy.

[ZackJones]

21 hours ago, Squirrel45 said:

Any movement / news on this at the latest meeting? 

 

 

There is no formal request from anyone that I have any knowledge of that has brought this before the board. I've participated in every BoD meeting this year. I will tell you about an idea I was thinking about on the drive home from WSSC though related to Rimfire Revolver. A couple of times Sherwyn has mentioned sub-categories for certain guns. Using Rimfire Revolvers as an example we could create a sub-category under RFPI and RFPO for Revolver. This way when you register and shoot a match with your revolver we could track usage over time. This would give us good data to use to make an informed decision on the viability of such a division. 

 

As luck would have it I picked up a speed bees loader and block off the prize table at WSSC so I'm going to shoot some Rimfire revolver in the future. I just need to find the gun first. 

[Thomas H]

14 hours ago, ZackJones said:

I will tell you about an idea I was thinking about on the drive home from WSSC though related to Rimfire Revolver. A couple of times Sherwyn has mentioned sub-categories for certain guns. Using Rimfire Revolvers as an example we could create a sub-category under RFPI and RFPO for Revolver. This way when you register and shoot a match with your revolver we could track usage over time. This would give us good data to use to make an informed decision on the viability of such a division. 

 

As luck would have it I picked up a speed bees loader and block off the prize table at WSSC so I'm going to shoot some Rimfire revolver in the future. I just need to find the gun first. 

 

This sort of data would be really useful, I'd think.

 

And congrats on the loader/block.  Man, those things are expensive!  (But really, really handy.)

 

[10mmdave]

14 hours ago, ZackJones said:

There is no formal request from anyone that I have any knowledge of that has brought this before the board. I've participated in every BoD meeting this year. <snip>

 

As luck would have it I picked up a speed bees loader and block off the prize table at WSSC so I'm going to shoot some Rimfire revolver in the future. I just need to find the gun first. 

And that is disturbing Zack, there has been a formal proposal submitted to the Area 7 director that was sent back in Feb. Back when this proposal started (a year ago plus I think!!) your name was never brought up to submit anything to, I have to add, during that time when we were talking with the USPSA BOD, matches were very lightly attended and cancellations were happening all over the country. I also have to admit I had not heard your name mentioned on this forum or others during this time and I honestly thought you were up to other things, then imagine my surprise when just after I submitted our proposal for RRFO/RRFI I read that you have submitted a proposal for the changes/additions for 2022 !

 

So to sum up, we proceeded with the RRFO/RRFI proposal the way we were told to by the USPSA BOD (or agents of said BOD) I apologize that you were not included in our proposal submission and would be happy to share what has been written up and discuss. I did talk with my Area Director the other day and he said he would be talking to Troy at the Classic Nationals about bringing this up at a future rules meeting.

 

Congrats on the Speed Beez prize, great loaders, I know a guy who makes holders for those along with some other Rimfire Revolver items

[revolver45]

Dave. I did have a conversation Jake about this and it was at his suggestion that we proceed through the Area 7 Director with this proposal. I seems like there is a lack of communication again, on this subject within the Steel Challenge powers to be.