Indoor USPSA Match

[TC1017]

Shot my first USPSA match yesterday that happened to be an indoor match at Personal Defense in Raleigh. If you haven’t done an indoor match before know that the ventilation is kinda poor.   Was hacking out black loogies all day but over all good match. By the way the shooters and md did great, made me realize how much more practice I need. Great match though had fun

[MHicks]

Great to get started. There is usually a big difference between indoor and outdoor matches but you're on your way. Have fun!

[rowdyb]

I stopped shooting weekly indoor matches at facilities without up to date ventilation. My blood lead level thanked me.

[BillChunn]

What was the size of the range (as in how many "lanes") and how many stages did they run?

 

BC

[gerritm]

3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I stopped shooting weekly indoor matches at facilities without up to date ventilation. My blood lead level thanked me.

This. Several of us that shot matches on a regular basis indoors had elevated lead levels. 2 guys were at the threshold of serious lead poisoning & hospitalization. I tested slightly up. So bottom line be careful and especially if you see black or coughing the  next day, might want to consider not going there. Some of the guys starting wearing full respirators until they shot.

 

gerritm  

[BillChunn]

The air make-up systems are critical to an indoor range.  It's one of those things that can drastically impact your life. Fine particles of melted lead float in the air, unseen, end up in your nasal passages and eventually your blood stream.  The first evidence (as already mentioned) is black snot.  If you are already seeing this, run, don't walk, RUN and stay away from that range until they improve the filtration of their make-up air system. 

 

Lead is stored in your bones so it is very difficult to extract once it gets in you.  For those whose blood lead levels are confirmed around 45 μg/dL(micrograms per deciliter) or higher, doctors might recommend chelation therapy as a means to remove some of the lead that has built up in the body.  This type of therapy involves administering a drug that will bind to (or chelate) lead, breaking particles down to make them less toxic and more easily removed from the body through waste elimination.

 

The side effects are not fun.

- Fever

- Nausea

- Headaches

- Red and/or watery eyes

- Runny nose

- Rashes

- Reduced white blood cell count

- Blood in the urine

- Damage to the liver or kidneys

 

Getting the make-up air system to work correctly is almost an art form.  The heating system along with balancing the incoming and outgoing air volumes must be done as near perfect as possible.  Along with spent lead removal, the air systems and their associated filters are some of the highest expenses for indoor ranges.

 

BC

[MikeyScuba]

At the indoor club I belong to got brand new deulling trees so they set up a fun match.  What wasn't working that day - the air system.  We should have just left but didn't and it got so bad my eyes were stinging.  I don't like to think about how much lead I breathed in that day.

 

Nothing beats the clean up day at the club I belong to.  There were 3 scrap metal guys pounding at the backstop for hours with zero protection. I could could see the fine lead powder in the air.  And we stayed outside on tree duty but I peaked my head in quickly to witness that OSHA nightmare unfold.

[BillChunn]

1 hour ago, MikeyScuba said:

Nothing beats the clean up day at the club I belong to.

 

A while ago, the basement range impact area cleanout was an annual event.  The shredded rubber of the impact area was spread out on the range floor.  A second team used leaf blowers to move the rubber off the lead.  A third team then shoveled the lead into small coffee cans.  These were handed off to a 4th group that walked them up the stairs to the 55 gallon drum on the back of a truck.  Everyone wore full "bunny" suits and industrial level respirators.... in the middle of the summer.  

 

If you did it once, you never volunteered to do it again.  Soon, nobody volunteered and it was contracted out to a professional company.  They used specialized equipment to blow the rubber away from the spent bullets.  They took all the lead away and paid the club a portion of the recycle proceeds.  Best decision ever made.

 

BC

[Doge]

Ooof, indoor matches are fun but ventilation is important. If you make it a point to regularly shoot there I'd suggest getting your lead levels checked. 

[konkapot]

Oh and welcome to USPSA and welcome to the Forum and all that. 

[AverageJoeShooting]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:33 PM, TC1017 said:

Shot my first USPSA match yesterday that happened to be an indoor match at Personal Defense in Raleigh. If you haven’t done an indoor match before know that the ventilation is kinda poor.   Was hacking out black loogies all day but over all good match. By the way the shooters and md did great, made me realize how much more practice I need. Great match though had fun

Hey Im in Fuquay here. Tilley is a great guy and puts on great matches. you should check out his outdoor matches at the Tilley compound. He usually has them every weekend

[ima45dv8]

21 hours ago, BillChunn said:

For those whose blood lead levels are confirmed around 45 μg/dL(micrograms per deciliter) or higher, doctors might recommend chelation therapy as a means to remove some of the lead that has built up in the body. 

 

My highest was 42. 

Changing some habits and reducing my exposure from poorly ventilated indoor ranges helped me lower it to ~4-5.

I have been tested in about 4 years, so it may even be lower.

[regor]

4 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

 

My highest was 42. 

Changing some habits and reducing my exposure from poorly ventilated indoor ranges helped me lower it to ~4-5.

I have been tested in about 4 years, so it may even be lower.

 

Do you mind sharing your habit changes? My last one was 7, so elevated above the 5 ug/dL threshold, but not to the point of concern, but I'm still trying to get it lower. I don't shoot indoors in general, probably get some exposure from range brass processing. 

[George16]

17 minutes ago, regor said:

 

Do you mind sharing your habit changes? My last one was 7, so elevated above the 5 ug/dL threshold, but not to the point of concern, but I'm still trying to get it lower. I don't shoot indoors in general, probably get some exposure from range brass processing. 

Mine went up to 11 a couple of years ago. Since I started using nitrile/rubber gloves while processing brass, the level has gone down to 5. The gloves made a huge difference.
 

Just washing your hands with water and soap after dealing with range brass doesn’t remove all traces of lead especially underneath your fingernails. This is where the gloves are very beneficial. I also bought a pack of those D-Lead wipes which I use to wipe my hands with prior to eating a snack or opening a bottle of water to drink. My range clothes are washed separately and I always take a shower immediately after coming home from the range.

[regor]

8 minutes ago, George16 said:

Mine went up to 11 a couple of years ago. Since I started using nitrile/rubber gloves while processing brass, the level has gone down to 5. The gloves made a huge difference.
 

Just washing your hands with water and soap after dealing with range brass doesn’t remove all traces of lead especially underneath your fingernails. This is where the gloves are very beneficial. I also bought a pack of those D-Lead wipes which I use to wipe my hands with prior to eating a snack or opening a bottle of water to drink. My range clothes are washed separately and I always take a shower immediately after coming home from the range.

 

I've always used D-lead wipes after range sessions. Have not been consistent about wearing gloves while reloading and handling brass until my last test in December. I also got some d-lead soap to keep by the garage sink, plus cleaning spray to wipe down the bench and shampoo for after matches. Doctor wants me to get another draw this month to get it checked again, so I'll be curious what it is (it had been stable at 7 for a year prior). 

 

 

[PatJones]

59 minutes ago, regor said:

 

Do you mind sharing your habit changes? My last one was 7, so elevated above the 5 ug/dL threshold, but not to the point of concern, but I'm still trying to get it lower. I don't shoot indoors in general, probably get some exposure from range brass processing. 

5 is the threshold for children.  The OSHA limit is 50 μg/m3, with an action level of 30. At 50 you're removed from the workplace.

 

https://www.osha.gov/lead

 

I'm a gunsmith at an indoor range, I get blood tests every 6 months. I've varied between 12-16, it dropped when I switched to coated bullets.

Edited March 3, 2021 by PatJones

[gerritm]

Funny thing we were bored and shot a small indoor outlaw match last night, which we haven't done in 6 months or so. Good ventilation and usually have a slight cough & itchy throat, but nothing from last night. 

 

One of the other very modern indoor ranges that we shot at kind of regular would close to the public just before we started and the ventilation system was on a timer & shut off. If the MD remember to turn it back on all was OK.

 

Other range was very old and had none to speak of, just fans to direct the air away. Everyone that shot there on a regular basis had high lead levels. Mine got to 11 and when I got tested I received a notice from the State of Texas that it was reported and to take precautions. Never shot there again.

 

gerritm

[Schutzenmeister]

22 minutes ago, PatJones said:

5 is the threshold for children.  The OSHA limit is 50 μg/m3, with an action level of 30. At 50 you're removed from the workplace.

 

https://www.osha.gov/lead

 

I'm a gunsmith at an indoor range, I get blood tests every 6 months. I've varied between 12-16, it dropped when I switched to coated bullets.

 

Here is the complete reference to the OSHA standards ... I wouldn't bother reading them (again) unless I was having SERIOUS trouble getting to sleep at night!

 

1910.1025 - Lead. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration (osha.gov)

 

[ima45dv8]

I believe the EPA threshold is 10 micrograms/deciliter of blood. At least it was when the local health department called me to see if a site visit was in order (!). Apparently they were made aware of my test results and wondered if I was snacking on primitive lead paint between meals. 

 

What they and my doctor (and independent reading) told me was while inhaled lead is a very bad thing, ingested lead is even more readily or thoroughly absorbed by our bodies. I made some quick changes.

 

• I got pretty diligent about cleaning my hands before letting my fingers touch my face or lips (yeah, I smoke). 
• I started putting used dryer sheets in my tumbler to trap the lead dust, and disposed of them very gently.
• I became more selective about which indoor facilities I frequented. 

 

It started coming down within 6 months and continued on a slow but steady decline.

 

---------------

I went to work at a facility with an indoor range equipped with a massive, well-engineered system for scrubbing the air. Our quarterly service included replacing about $5,000 of filters along with contracted removal of the lead from the traps. To ensure year-round comfort on the range, they contracted a specialized firm to spend a few months installing the air handler in the back parking lot that was about 50 feet long and 20 feet tall in spots. The range is 9 lanes wide with a full 25 yards/line, and another 4-5 yards behind that for working room. That system turns over every single cubic inch of air in that space every 90 seconds. 

 

Gaston made that range available for employees to conduct paid training, demos for purchasers from around the world, and courtesy guest visits lots o' fun there). Our local director also made it available for personal training time. In addition he also loans that range to many local, state and federal agencies for training and qualifications, simply as a courtesy, and free of charge. I didn't take as full personal advantage of that privilege as I wish {sigh} but my numbers continued to drop even there.

 

**For those of you with small children or grandchildren, know that even washing your shooting clothes with theirs can cause a level of cross-contamination that their delicate central nervous systems cannot tolerate. 

[TC1017]

On 3/2/2021 at 8:06 AM, BillChunn said:

What was the size of the range (as in how many "lanes") and how many stages did they run?

 

BC

There is two ranges with about 4-5 lanes. 6 stages total though

[TC1017]

10 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

Hey Im in Fuquay here. Tilley is a great guy and puts on great matches. you should check out his outdoor matches at the Tilley compound. He usually has them every weekend

Yeah I plan on doing that when I have a chance

[zzt]

I would never, ever shoot an indoor match no matter how good the ventilation.  I shoot Open major and the noise is too loud indoors even double plugged. 33dB + 30dB.

[MikeyScuba]

5 hours ago, zzt said:

I would never, ever shoot an indoor match no matter how good the ventilation.  I shoot Open major and the noise is too loud indoors even double plugged. 33dB + 30dB.

I just got an open gun, wondered how loud it would be.  An RO friend said they HATE RO’ing 38SC shooters..

 

by the time I get mags it will be time for outdoor matches anyway.  

[zzt]

1 hour ago, MikeyScuba said:

An RO friend said they HATE RO’ing 38SC shooters..

 

Me too.  38SC shooters have lots of case capacity so they load up on powder so they can still make major with 4 3/16" poppels and a big comp.  I definitely double plug when I RO them.