How to set up Steel Challenge stages correctly?

[erwos]

I'm a coach on my kid's new SASP team, which is de facto Steel Challenge for kids.

 

We ran a practice match last month, and I had a lot of trouble getting the distances to/between the targets just right. I wound up bringing a LRF to laze them, but I feel like this was a real pain and I'm not sure I really think the end result was as precise as I wanted. Is there some sort of tool people are using for this sort of thing? Any other advice? Thanks!

[apoc4lypse]

Use a 100ft tape measure to establish the midline of the stage.  This is the one I use. 

 

Then, use a regular 25ft contractor's tape measure to measure out the distance of the plate from the midline.  Make sure you set the measuring tape down and confirm perpendicularity to the midline. 

 

I use small marking cones to mark each spot, then use a makeshift plumb line, hanging from the target's hanger hook, to ensure that the plates are centered above each cone.  Depending on your stands, the posts may sometimes lean either forward or to one side, so centering the base of the stand on the cone isn't always accurate.  If you're shimming your posts, make sure you do so before centering the plate above the cone.

 

Edited to add:  You can use a rangefinder to double check the distances once everything is set up, or to establish your stage depth from the back berm when creating the shooting box, but for target positioning, tape measures are much better.

Edited January 19, 2021 by apoc4lypse

[RickT]

If you use the same bays every practice use multi-color surveyor's whiskers to mark the target position.  One color for each stage. (provided you have permission of the range owner/club)

[BillChunn]

Howell Gun Club has a unique setup.  They have steel overhead baffles convering every range bay.  They measured everything out for position of each target on the ground and then hung a magnet on a wire from the overhead baffle.  The target post is placed under the hanging magnet, the steel target is then slid up the post until it touches the magnet.   Boom.  Done.  They have two different sets of colored magnets so they can swap stages on a given bay.

 

Not everyone has that capability but their solution to the problem was exceptionally creative.

 

BC

[erwos]

10 hours ago, RickT said:

If you use the same bays every practice use multi-color surveyor's whiskers to mark the target position.  One color for each stage. (provided you have permission of the range owner/club)

I wish we could do this, but it is not feasible for our situation. The other action shooting disciplines are pretty rough on the bays.

 

I've directed the head coach towards the contracting measuring tape mentioned in a different post. This seems like it will do what I want, hopefully.

[ChuckS]

We had one range that carefully laid out and sunk square steel tube to hold the target posts. At set up time, they just pulled the plugs from the tube (plugs kept the tube clear of debris) and set the target posts. Easy and repeatable. The bays were also used for freestyle field courses and the setup survived just fine. It is a lot of work up front, but a real time saver for each match!

 

Later,

Chuck

[zzt]

2 hours ago, erwos said:

I wish we could do this, but it is not feasible for our situation. The other action shooting disciplines are pretty rough on the bays.

 

Then use a flush boundary marker like one of these.  https://www.amazon.com/Survey-Marker/s?k=Survey+Marker

 

Then rent or buy a suitable laser lever.  Set it up in the shooting box and use the beam to set your targets at the correct height regardless of grade variations.  You will have to cut your 2x4s to the specific length required.  Mark the for the Stage and the specific target.  When you tear down the stage, keep all of the posts together and tape them into a bundle.  That way you can reuse them and get correct target presentations without using the laser level again.  Record the length of each post so you can cut replacements as needed.

[KelsonAK]

For practice... i use my highly calibrated 1 yard pace.  I usually get within a foot or 2 that way...

 

For matches, 100 foot tape and 25 foot tape.  If I'm feelin froggy I may even mark the ground with some orange marking paint. 

At our range, which does not have dedicated action bays at this time - if it's down range it gets shot.  So the whiskers, survey markers, etc - they all become targets once we leave the bay.  Damned people....

[apoc4lypse]

Might have to get some of those flush boundary markers.  I think they'd last a while at my range.

[bradhe]

There is an easier way to get it exactly right but requires 3 people and 2 tapes to do quickly.  Rule one tape down the center line, zero at the shooting box.  First guy holds end of second tape on first tape at downrange distance for a target.  Second guy grabs second tape at the horizontal distance.  Third guy stand in shooting box holding second tape at the sum of the horizontal distance and the hypotenuse of the triangle (you have to calculate these ahead of time).  Second guy pulls tape taught and has the exact point.    Sounds complex but is simple once you do one.   I have laid out markers on a range for all 8 stages this way in about 20 minutes.  (we pick up the markers each winter so the plow doesn't get them, we use painted fender washers and nails as markers.  My range is dead level 1.5% grade so I can use the same height posts.

Edited January 20, 2021 by bradhe

[broadside72]

On 1/19/2021 at 5:53 AM, erwos said:

I wish we could do this, but it is not feasible for our situation. The other action shooting disciplines are pretty rough on the bays.

 

I've directed the head coach towards the contracting measuring tape mentioned in a different post. This seems like it will do what I want, hopefully.

 

We use the whiskers and also run 2-days worth of USPSA a month plus LEO training 6-10x a month and special trainers several times a years on the same bays. The whiskers hold up fine. It's the sun that fades them after 1-2 years though.

[Sigarmsp226]

Just ordered 8 sets (each set is a different color for each course) of whiskers - 25 per pack so these should last our club for many years...Thanks for the suggestion to use whiskers....Mark

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[Bagellord]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:29 AM, zzt said:

 

Then use a flush boundary marker like one of these.  https://www.amazon.com/Survey-Marker/s?k=Survey+Marker

 

Then rent or buy a suitable laser lever.  Set it up in the shooting box and use the beam to set your targets at the correct height regardless of grade variations.  You will have to cut your 2x4s to the specific length required.  Mark the for the Stage and the specific target.  When you tear down the stage, keep all of the posts together and tape them into a bundle.  That way you can reuse them and get correct target presentations without using the laser level again.  Record the length of each post so you can cut replacements as needed.

 

Any recommendations on a laser level?

[zzt]

1 hour ago, Bagellord said:

 

Any recommendations on a laser level?

 

Not really.  Personally, I'd rent the Dewalt from Home Depot.  I'd also consider something like this for infrequent use.  https://www.harborfreight.com/motorized-rotary-laser-level-kit-64000.html  It is certainly cheap enough, but probably not bright enough to use outdoors in daylight.  

[UpYoursPal]

Quantico Shooting Club has a pretty clever solution for this: they take a length of braided steel cable that's about the distance from the shooting box to the back target, and that serves as a reference distance for the rear of the stage.  Then they mark off cross-sections at the distances indicated in the stage diagram for the targets that are off the centerline, and attach cables of appropriate distance there.  When it's done, they just roll up the cable and throw it in a box, and it makes for easy and accurate stage measurements every single time.  

 

For example: on Smoke and Hope they have a 42' center cable, then two cross-cables at 21' and 27'.  Those two cables measure out to 14' on each side for the near targets, and 9' each side for the far targets.

 

I may not be describing it perfectly, but it's a really ingenuous solution.

Edited February 16, 2021 by UpYoursPal

[outerlimits]

1 hour ago, UpYoursPal said:

Quantico Shooting Club has a pretty clever solution for this: they take a length of braided steel cable that's about the distance from the shooting box to the back target, and that serves as a reference distance for the rear of the stage.  Then they mark off cross-sections at the distances indicated in the stage diagram for the targets that are off the centerline, and attach cables of appropriate distance there.  When it's done, they just roll up the cable and throw it in a box, and it makes for easy and accurate stage measurements every single time.  

 

For example: on Smoke and Hope they have a 42' center cable, then two cross-cables at 21' and 27'.  Those two cables measure out to 14' on each side for the near targets, and 9' each side for the far targets.

 

I may not be describing it perfectly, but it's a really ingenuous solution.

kinda what i used to do many moons ago when i actually practiced the match.  made a graphic layout of the stages at the time (1999), laid out the marked rope and would place a stage down, shoot it for score, then reset to the next stage.  would shoot the match cold, twice each day.

98S_C Layout.pdf

[Gregg K]

I see in your layout that the closest plates in Showdown are marked 5 feet off center instead of 4 feet, has Showdown changed over the years?

[outerlimits]

25 minutes ago, Gregg K said:

I see in your layout that the closest plates in Showdown are marked 5 feet off center instead of 4 feet, has Showdown changed over the years?

lots have changed.  look at the distances of outer limits and speed option, back in my day.

[stick]

On 1/19/2021 at 9:24 AM, ChuckS said:

We had one range that carefully laid out and sunk square steel tube to hold the target posts. At set up time, they just pulled the plugs from the tube (plugs kept the tube clear of debris) and set the target posts. Easy and repeatable. The bays were also used for freestyle field courses and the setup survived just fine. It is a lot of work up front, but a real time saver for each match!

 

Later,

Chuck

^^This^^  One of the clubs I shoot at did this.  It works great and it's easy to setup and tear down.  Painted the caps red to easily identify the spots.