ampleworks Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 This video was shared on Reddit a few days ago about Area 8 where a RO was standing what is CLEARLY down range of the shooter to "check for 180 violations". I cannot begin to imagine this scenario in USPSA, much less an Area match nor would I ever agree to shoot a stage with someone standing there. There's a BIG difference with the angle of the gun and being hit by a bullet between someone standing 5' and 25' away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facedown Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 https://nroi.org/ro-best-practices/ro-position-and-the-180/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Camera right is downrange on the stage. Not a great place to stand, but he is technically up range. There were quite a few 180 traps at Area 8, this stage had two of them ;-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnlinebacker Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 This [/url] was shared on Reddit a few days ago about Area 8 where a RO was standing what is CLEARLY down range of the shooter to "check for 180 violations". I cannot begin to imagine this scenario in USPSA, much less an Area match nor would I ever agree to shoot a stage with someone standing there. There's a BIG difference with the angle of the gun and being hit by a bullet between someone standing 5' and 25' away. [emoji2959] http://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2020_08/image.thumb.png.14116ab52c98c6893e9771675e2d03ee.pngNo, he was up range. Although a little overzealous. I was at this match and competed on this stage. This was the left most position in the stage. You had the option to shoot across like this or run across and hammer the targets. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 The wide angle lenses in hat cams have enough distortion that what in reality is likely a fine place to stand look like they are in the line of fire. I will admit I was not at this match so I can't say for sure for this stage, but I have seen similar videos from matches I was at and it is very rare that reality matches the video perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, ampleworks said: This video was shared on Reddit a few days ago about Area 8 where a RO was standing what is CLEARLY down range of the shooter to "check for 180 violations". I cannot begin to imagine this scenario in USPSA, much less an Area match nor would I ever agree to shoot a stage with someone standing there. There's a BIG difference with the angle of the gun and being hit by a bullet between someone standing 5' and 25' away. Where he is standing he is not down range. I shot this this stage. These hat camera's make things look worse then they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampleworks Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, facedown said: https://nroi.org/ro-best-practices/ro-position-and-the-180/ The sad part about this article is that it was posted before Area 8 and they still did it. Put your air gun up against the photo in front of you, there's less than an inch of movement on the hands to go far beyond 180 and need to get the blowout kit. At least if the RO were closer, the angles would need to be more extreme. Edited August 28, 2020 by ampleworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) (Leaving the “was the actually dangerous” part out of my comment’s focus.) If you need to camp out at 181.001 this badly, you either need to loosen up on your crushing need to catch the slightest hint of a chance to DQ someone... ...or you need to reconsider the stage design. As I’ve said many times: There’s a chasm of difference between strictly enforcing obvious and serious safety violations in the course of your duties, and believing that your job is to hunt down and punish the tiniest little infractions you can possibly find. Camping on the 180 line is being a dick, pure and simple. Don’t be a dick. Edited August 28, 2020 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nghthwk1911 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 You are so wrong on this, the RO is several feet back from the Start position, the shooter would need to have the gun pointed "up range" to get the muzzle on him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, ampleworks said: The sad part about this article is that it was posted before Area 8 and they still did it. Put your air gun up against the photo in front of you, there's less than an inch of movement on the hands to go far beyond 180 and need to get the blowout kit. At least if the If I were to guess I'd say he's about 6' behind the shooter. I do think he could of stood back a couple more feet and accomplished the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampleworks Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nghthwk1911 said: You are so wrong on this, the RO is several feet back from the Start position, the shooter would need to have the gun pointed "up range" to get the muzzle on him at all. The RO is one step behind the rear tip of the next shooting box, technically "uprange" but if you're to the point that you're seeing the bullet come out of the barrel, and by bullet, I mean the tip, you're most certainly not "uprange". ROs are parallel to bullets all of the time but they're also within arms' reach of the shooter, not 25' away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattx Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 See this occasionally but regularly at local matches where people setup the corner shots a half step in from the rear fault line, except it's shooters milling around in those areas and not ROs. I tend to try to shoo them away and if they are new shooters explain why you are technically allowed to stand there, but that s#!t can also happen, and it's probably not the smartest place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: The wide angle lenses in hat cams have enough distortion that what in reality is likely a fine place to stand look like they are in the line of fire. I will admit I was not at this match so I can't say for sure for this stage, but I have seen similar videos from matches I was at and it is very rare that reality matches the video perception. This! I use a Hat Cam pretty regularly and in many videos it appears that I've swept my weak hand unloading, or manipulating a prop, or that someone is standing at almost 180 or LESS. I also have a camera on a tripod or a someone using my cell phone to video and when looking at the third party view, my hand is nowhere near being swept and that idiot standing on the 180 was behind the 200 degree line. The guy in the photo above is nowhere near as close as it looks in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 RO doesn't look to be downrange. Nevertheless, an RO's desire to DQ someone should never exceed his desire to live... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 The RO mistakenly believes that he is protected by some print in a rulebook. He is under the false impression that the 180 is protecting him from getting shot. If the competitor stumbles with their finger on the trigger or twitches badly then the RO is in danger of being shot. it does not matter where the targets are positioned, whether they are downrange or at 90 degrees to the competitor, standing that close to where a competitor is shooting is just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basman Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 No way I’m standing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieD Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: The RO mistakenly believes that he is protected by some print in a rulebook. He is under the false impression that the 180 is protecting him from getting shot. If the competitor stumbles with their finger on the trigger or twitches badly then the RO is in danger of being shot. it does not matter where the targets are positioned, whether they are downrange or at 90 degrees to the competitor, standing that close to where a competitor is shooting is just dumb. Completely agree. Take the stage and what is considered down range out of the equation. If that was a single target you were training on at the range, would you shoot if your buddy was standing there, or would you stand there when your buddy is shooting? Nope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, CharlieD said: Completely agree. Take the stage and what is considered down range out of the equation. If that was a single target you were training on at the range, would you shoot if your buddy was standing there, or would you stand there when your buddy is shooting? Nope! We should probably stop using side berms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ampleworks said: The RO is one step behind the rear tip of the next shooting box, technically "uprange" but if you're to the point that you're seeing the bullet come out of the barrel, and by bullet, I mean the tip, you're most certainly not "uprange". ROs are parallel to bullets all of the time but they're also within arms' reach of the shooter, not 25' away. Were you there? The people who were are telling you that this is an illusion from the camera lens and that this RO was farther back than what he appears to be. Who do you think should be believed? Stop your "safety" crusade. Edited August 28, 2020 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Looks like down-range is to the right. There is a berm behind the RO. He is close to 180, but nothing that I would worry too much if it was my regular squad. However, I would never stand that close to 180 if it was someone I didn't know or a new(ish) shooter. Just too close for comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 He is standing about 10 feet from the target, @CharlieDassessment is correct in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: He is standing about 10 feet from the target, @CharlieDassessment is correct in my opinion The people who were THERE say both of you are wrong. Who should I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Hold up a ruler that picture and measure the gap between the RO and the left edge of the target. Now measure the target using the ruler. Using those two measurements tell me how far apart you think they are.. its about 9-10 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Target is just under 18”, so 1.5 feet, scaling a ruler to represent 1cm = 1 foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 And yet, another reason why photographic “evidence” is not used in making calls and/or arbitrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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