Racinready300ex Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Good point, revolver is definitely a must reload division similar to Open which adds a additional hurdle for growth of the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasty618 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, RJH said: chances are damn good you will still win revolver at your match. Not because you're any good but because the next nearest revolver shooter is 800 miles away Well that's the thing, isn't it? Does winning a division with 2 people in it really mean anything? I mean... it's a competition, not a practice day where one shoots against himself trying to push to improve the times and learn new skills, right? And a competition, by definition, is a test of skill and ability; a contest among rivals. So wouldn't it be more meaningful to place 5th in a division that had 15-20 people, especially with a decent class presence? Both in terms of gauging current level of skill and mapping the path for improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, RJH said: Well, they can always "try" with the cheapest store bought ammo around. Cause if they are not reloading they probably don't have a chrono and can "assume" that their ammo makes minor. I think maybe one club match I have been to had a chrono stage in all my time shooting, so they will assume that the ammo is minor too. If someone is going to a major they will be past the trying phase, so chrono, reloads, for sure PF ammo, etc. should not be an issue Correct. In fact, I started shooting revo with factory stuff that didn’t even make ICORE 120 pf. It was a couple months of monthly matches before someone mentioned it but no threat of chrono. I’m thinking they were just happy to have a new recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I would disagree, at least in my area. When I shot revolver I was typically the only shooter with a wheel gun. If I wanted to shoot against another revolver I had to travel several hours. So typically I'd see the other wheel gunners at sectional and area matches. Currently there aren't any at the locals I attend, and pretty much all of the guys I used to shoot against at big matches have moved to other divisions. For me to shoot revolver again the division needs to grow, that's not going to happen. Even Nationals is kind of a joke. It has to be a stand alone match, right after another Nat's so guys who are already in town will be like "why not? we're here". But most of them it's not really their division. And most of the people that shoot the first match don't stay the extra day to shoot Nationals, that should say something Truth right here^^ I live half the way across the country from you, so it is not just your area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, nasty618 said: Well that's the thing, isn't it? Does winning a division with 2 people in it really mean anything? I mean... it's a competition, not a practice day where one shoots against himself trying to push to improve the times and learn new skills, right? And a competition, by definition, is a test of skill and ability; a contest among rivals. So wouldn't it be more meaningful to place 5th in a division that had 15-20 people, especially with a decent class presence? Both in terms of gauging current level of skill and mapping the path for improvement? %100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, RJH said: I have been shooting uspsa for 15 or so years, including myself there have about 15 revolver shooters that i have seen in all that time. VERY few people shoot revolver any time, so if you enjoy shooting by yourself or with maybe one other person revolver might be for you. That's 15 more than what the area match attendance would suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, nasty618 said: Well that's the thing, isn't it? Does winning a division with 2 people in it really mean anything? I mean... it's a competition, not a practice day where one shoots against himself trying to push to improve the times and learn new skills, right? And a competition, by definition, is a test of skill and ability; a contest among rivals. So wouldn't it be more meaningful to place 5th in a division that had 15-20 people, especially with a decent class presence? Both in terms of gauging current level of skill and mapping the path for improvement? Winning a division in Revolver (when not enough competitors) is similar to winning a high class in other divisions - it would be silly to celebrate or find it meaningful by itself. You look at your standings and performance relative to the closest division, you look at your hits and your times, you look at how you moved and where you had trouble. So, you can still be 5th when combined with Production shooters. There is a Practiscore app that will let you combine divisions so you see how it all went. It's all about what you strive for and what you're looking to get out of the competition. And, if you lose sleep because you can't "win" against production shooters, join the Open guys who cry about PCC in combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, IVC said: That's 15 more than what the area match attendance would suggest That is not quite true cause about 8 of those was at an area match several years back. This was before 8 rounders and Jerry M was going to shoot the area match so there was a "big" revo showing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Well, the Western States Championship (Level 2) that's coming up has 19 signed up in Revolver and I know that at least one GM is on the staff, so I expect him to shoot on the staff day. Since this is at my "home range," I also know quite a few of the guys signed up for Revolver - they often shoot other divisions at local matches and I don't recall ever all of us shooting Revolver on the same day. There is interest and there is place for Revolver. These types of dedicated L2 matches seem to be just the ticket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, IVC said: Well, the Western States Championship (Level 2) that's coming up has 19 signed up in Revolver and I know that at least one GM is on the staff, so I expect him to shoot on the staff day. Since this is at my "home range," I also know quite a few of the guys signed up for Revolver - they often shoot other divisions at local matches and I don't recall ever all of us shooting Revolver on the same day. There is interest and there is place for Revolver. These types of dedicated L2 matches seem to be just the ticket... According to PS there are 20 but no GM, and that is still less than %15 of the other locap division that this match recognizes. Also the match is in California, where i have been led to believe that getting a hi cap gun is harder than other places, so the margins between revo and others should be closer (that is speculation, i have not been to california and am not versed in their gun laws). If there was a match that should have a big revo turnout this would appear to be it, and with revo only drawing 20 people it shows how little the division means to USPSA. And don't forget, I like revolvers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen0ph0n Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, RJH said: According to PS there are 20 but no GM, and that is still less than %15 of the other locap division that this match recognizes. Also the match is in California, where i have been led to believe that getting a hi cap gun is harder than other places, so the margins between revo and others should be closer (that is speculation, i have not been to california and am not versed in their gun laws). If there was a match that should have a big revo turnout this would appear to be it, and with revo only drawing 20 people it shows how little the division means to USPSA. And don't forget, I like revolvers I think what I'm gathering from this thread is that it probably doesn't matter how much the USPSA org cares (or doesn't) about revolver - there's just not enough interest. And I get it - you don't have a lot of options for guns (929, 627 is pretty much it, right? Maybe the R8? 6 shot major isn't really viable anymore), it's pretty much necessary to reload, and it requires learning a whole new set of skills - especially if you don't already shoot a low-cap division. You just need to be the kind of person who really loves shooting wheel guns, despite their limited practical application (when compared to an autoloader). I'll probably do it anyway, and just compare myself to the other low cap divisions. But I certainly don't expect the same experience I had in CO where I slapped a dot on my g17 and started shooting at a "competent" level almost immediately (i.e. I'm still slow, but I don't have many mikes, and based on my classifiers so far it's looking like I'd be in B class by the middle of next year). I just wish ICORE and Steel Challenge was more popular in the Seattle area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchapman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, RJH said: According to PS there are 20 but no GM, and that is still less than %15 of the other locap division that this match recognizes. Also the match is in California, where i have been led to believe that getting a hi cap gun is harder than other places, so the margins between revo and others should be closer (that is speculation, i have not been to california and am not versed in their gun laws). If there was a match that should have a big revo turnout this would appear to be it, and with revo only drawing 20 people it shows how little the division means to USPSA. And don't forget, I like revolvers I don't think that most of you are looking at or seeing the whole picture when comparing some of these matches. This match in particular in the past , when it was at RIO, had way more revo shooters signed up because they could shoot revo on one day and while they are there shoot SS the next two days or vise versa This year with the move to Calli. every one shoots the same day. So you pick your poison in what you want to do. Now I know that this is about USPSA and revolvers, but as a side note we have run several ICORE matches here, 2 regionals and one IRC and we had a good turnout. 118 shooters in the first regional, 145 shooters in the second regional and 196 shooters at the IRC. So I really don't know what gives out there, I guess that they don't want to play in USPSA with the wheelies. I do and I enjoy it. One other mention that there were no revo shooters at area 2, and I think that could be attributed to the fact that they never even let revolvers sign up in the revolver division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, mchapman said: I don't think that most of you are looking at or seeing the whole picture when comparing some of these matches. This match in particular in the past , when it was at RIO, had way more revo shooters signed up because they could shoot revo on one day and while they are there shoot SS the next two days or vise versa This year with the move to Calli. every one shoots the same day. So you pick your poison in what you want to do. Now I know that this is about USPSA and revolvers, Hammer meet nail, when forced to choose %99.9 of shooters will not choose revolver. So i guess when asked, "what would it take for you to shoot revolver?" the answer basically proven out by almost all USPSA shooters is, "I would shoot revolver if there is no other option" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, RJH said: Hammer meet nail, when forced to choose %99.9 of shooters will not choose revolver. So i guess when asked, "what would it take for you to shoot revolver?" the answer basically proven out by almost all USPSA shooters is, "I would shoot revolver if there is no other option" To me that implies that 99.9% can’t shoot revolvers because it might be to hard to win by spray and pray and actually hit the A-Zone if they know what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnlinebacker Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 To me that implies that 99.9% can’t shoot revolvers because it might be to hard to win by spray and pray and actually hit the A-Zone if they know what that is. [emoji23]Ok boomer Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, Rnlinebacker said: Ok boomer Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk And proud of it ✌ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 45 minutes ago, revoman said: To me that implies that 99.9% can’t shoot revolvers because it might be to hard to win by spray and pray and actually hit the A-Zone if they know what that is. It implies to me that %99.9 of USPSA shooters don't have brain damage, also shows out why there are far more revolver shooters in IDPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, RJH said: It implies to me that %99.9 of USPSA shooters don't have brain damage, also shows out why there are far more revolver shooters in IDPA It is 99.9% not %99.9 and I have never shot IDPA but I imagine they still have to hit the A-zone or is it a spray and pray also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, revoman said: It is 99.9% not %99.9 and I have never shot IDPA but I imagine they still have to hit the A-zone or is it a spray and pray also? Uh oh, correcting punctuation/grammar, i must have hit a nerve. Not sure on IDPA, i don't shoot it or revolver cause I have a lack of brain damage, but i freely admit my punkuation skillz and ghrammer skilz are knot two grate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, RJH said: Uh oh, correcting punctuation/grammar, i must have hit a nerve. Not sure on IDPA, i don't shoot it or revolver cause I have a lack of brain damage, but i freely admit my punkuation skillz and ghrammer skilz are knot two grate No nerve hit here as people who know me know I am a nice guy. You can’t be that bad a guy as you are from Texas and that is where my wife is from. If you don’t like revolver that’s cool just shoot what you shoot and enjoy. ✌ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, revoman said: No nerve hit here as people who know me know I am a nice guy. You can’t be that bad a guy as you are from Texas and that is where my wife is from. If you don’t like revolver that’s cool just shoot what you shoot and enjoy. ✌ I like revolvers, said it a bunch in this thread. Agree people should shoot what makes them happy, hell why else go shooting And yep, I am a damn good guy, and modest too haha. I actually wish some more people would shoot revolvers. When i shot one for a while i tried to get someone to shoot with me, but they looked at me like I had brain damage haha. I finally got tired of shooting by myself, so went back to ss and then on to limited, where i slum around now. If there was ever 8 or 10 guys around here that would shoot a match in revo, I would probably throw in with them. So with that requirement , i probably won't be shooting revolver for a long, long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygunner77 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) When people complain about production being only 10 rounds.......you know how to finish this part. Edited January 22, 2020 by happygunner77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 18 hours ago, IVC said: You look at your standings and performance relative to the closest division, you look at your hits and your times, you look at how you moved and where you had trouble. So, you can still be 5th when combined with Production shooters. There is a Practiscore app that will let you combine divisions so you see how it all went. It's all about what you strive for and what you're looking to get out of the competition. With so few shooters all you can do is look at the overall. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking you could beat the guys above you if you were in their divisions. Sure you'd probably finish a little higher, but the only way to know where you'd be is shoot those divisions. Revolver is vary different from everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 55 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: With so few shooters all you can do is look at the overall. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking you could beat the guys above you if you were in their divisions. Sure you'd probably finish a little higher, but the only way to know where you'd be is shoot those divisions. Revolver is vary different from everything else. Agreed. Also, I don't know a single Revolver shooter who is exclusively shooting Revolver (there are probably some, but I don't know them). In fact, most revolver shooters around here shoot it as a fun secondary division from time to time and shoot other divisions regularly, so everyone is well aware of their standing and skill in race divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc68cal Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 23 hours ago, Mcfoto said: you forgot the action job. Tack on another $500+ oof. I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah, that just pushes the bar even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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