What would it take for you to shoot revolver?

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/36680

 

If people wanted big numbers at the nationals (I could care less but to each their own) they would move them back to the center of the country. 

 

Possibly, cause in 2018 there were26 and 2019 there was 31 shooters.  But don't most other divisions have solid numbers regardless of where they are held.....

[IHAVEGAS]

49 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Possibly, cause in 2018 there were26 and 2019 there was 31 shooters.  But don't most other divisions have solid numbers regardless of where they are held.....

 

I am too lazy to see if the + - 50% drop in attendance between 17 and 19 is reflected in other divisions. 

 

Seems like revolver folks tend to be older & more casual so I could see geography not hurting the other divisions as much, but just do not know. Working well attended level 2's it has amazed me how few local shooters show up, you get the hot dogs and the vacationers and the young/enthusiastic never-done-that folks but most locals aren't going to pay $100 plus and commit to a L2 when they can shoot every weekend for $20 and decide based on a last minute weather report and the spouses list of honey doos. 

[sc68cal]

20 hours ago, RJH said:

  Since 8 shooters have been allowed what is the highest a 6 shooter has been at nationals?

 

I went and looked at revolver nationals, and of the 30 or so competitors (!!!!!) there were _two_ that declared major. Oof.

[sc68cal]

23 hours ago, Mcfoto said:

I know this discussion is in the USPSA forum but if you’re partial to a standard 6 shot, then ICORE classic division is where you want to play. 

 

19 hours ago, RJH said:

If in all uspsa that don't happen then lets just kill it off.

 

Sort of riffing on what Mcfoto and RJH have said - maybe it's time for USPSA to kill off revolver division and turn it over to ICORE? There may not really be enough people shooting revolver to have two different organizations doing it, and maybe turning over revolver to ICORE will consolidate all the competitors into one organization that can do a better job?

 

Although, it's not like Revolver division in USPSA takes very much to keep around. I guess just don't put on a nationals for it unless there's enough interest (which there isn't).

[MikeBurgess]

19 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

 

 

Sort of riffing on what Mcfoto and RJH have said - maybe it's time for USPSA to kill off revolver division and turn it over to ICORE? There may not really be enough people shooting revolver to have two different organizations doing it, and maybe turning over revolver to ICORE will consolidate all the competitors into one organization that can do a better job?

 

Although, it's not like Revolver division in USPSA takes very much to keep around. I guess just don't put on a nationals for it unless there's enough interest (which there isn't).

So if we go back to 2012 we can see Revo participation at nationals only 12 shooters, when it was added as a extra day to the single stack nationals participation numbers went up to around 100, with the move away from the SS nationals at Berry participation went way down, this year it is going back to being the day after SS nationals but is combined with L10 so it will be interesting to how participation numbers look this year. 

 

I think Revo is for most people a secondary division, something they will shoot if a good opportunity presents itself, SS is similar in this respect (look at SS nationals participation vs regular club level participation) I think the problem with participation in the last 2 nationals was shooters had to choose to shoot Revo over either limited or SS, it will be interesting to see how the numbers stack up this year with Revo vs L10 will a bunch of shooters decide to just shoot their SS rig the next day for fun or will they take the opportunity to shoot Revo in a larger field?

 

 

 

 

[xen0ph0n]

On 2/11/2020 at 9:46 AM, cheby said:

I am actually surprised that the thread about revolvers got 7 pages already. 

Yeah, this thread got out of hand surprisingly quickly.

[xen0ph0n]

5 hours ago, sc68cal said:

 

 

Sort of riffing on what Mcfoto and RJH have said - maybe it's time for USPSA to kill off revolver division and turn it over to ICORE? There may not really be enough people shooting revolver to have two different organizations doing it, and maybe turning over revolver to ICORE will consolidate all the competitors into one organization that can do a better job?

 

Although, it's not like Revolver division in USPSA takes very much to keep around. I guess just don't put on a nationals for it unless there's enough interest (which there isn't).

Living in the Seattle area, there are at least 2 USPSA matches (1 weekday evening and 1 weekend) every week in the summer within 1.5 hours of me (even in traffic). The nearest ICORE match is 3+ hours away, and runs 4 times per year. I'd love to shoot ICORE, especially to run an optic on my revo, but until some clubs in the area start doing it, it's just not feasible for me. And for whatever reason, it's very difficult (almost impossible) to convince any of the ranges around here to run new events because the calendars are already so full - for example, there's only 1 range in the whole of western WA that runs an NRL22 match (because of me), despite the fact that it only requires 100 yards and a few steel targets, it's super beginner friendly, and has as relatively low cost of entry.

 

In the end though, I'm not going to win any matches, so I don't care too much if I need to shoot revo in production for USPSA and drive to ICORE matches a few times a year when I can.

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, RJH said:

 

My point is proven even more.  8 divisions, 7 are auto loaders, seems the ONE revolver division should be packed but instead pretty much no one shoots it.  So, I am not doing anything wrong, revolver shooters are.   Keeping a division with not only  no growth, but that is also hemorrhaging shooters with no turn around in sight seems pointless to me. 

 

I will ask you and @SGT_Schultz the same thing, if 30ish shooters at a nationals is not a small enough field to justify at least killing revolver nationals and possibly revo totally, what number is?  And don't forget revolvers are perfectly legal in production, L10, etc., so it wouldn't be that you couldn't shoot them, just that USPSA wouldn't be out the money hosting Nats for a division that no one shoots.  Well, that and a couple of people would lose a participation ribbon.  

 

PS I am not picking on revolver here, any division with the years of basically 0 participation should be scrapped IMO, but I don't keep shirts from the 90s that i never wear either

 

If you don't participate in Rev division, then its apparent pointlessness is irrelevant since you have no skin in the game.

 

I'm sure USPSA will stop hosting nationals for revolver shooters when the business case makes itself.  Since they're still holding them, I guess that point hasn't arrived.

 

Tell me this, how does the existence of revolver division negatively affects you?  We already know that it's not by siphoning off competitors from whatever you shoot......

[RJH]

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

If you don't participate in Rev division, then its apparent pointlessness is irrelevant since you have no skin in the game.

 

I'm sure USPSA will stop hosting nationals for revolver shooters when the business case makes itself.  Since they're still holding them, I guess that point hasn't arrived.

 

Tell me this, how does the existence of revolver division negatively affects you?  We already know that it's not by siphoning off competitors from whatever you shoot......

I despise having a division so that a few extra people get a participation ribbon idea, which is all revolver is at this point.

 

Also, you still haven't answered. What in your opinion Is the lowest number that we should continually have a national match for? If revolver gets down to 10, do we still have Nationals for it? Or is the big number of 30 enough? Remember, this is your opinion not what USPSA is doing. Also, remember there's nothing keeping revolver shooters from shooting production. It's not like we're going to send you home with your revolver never to get to shoot again.

 

If I was committed to a division and all it could draw was 30 people at Nationals, I would figure it was a joke and find a new division. But, I'm not a zealot.

[MikeyScuba]

What the **** are you talking about with the participation ribbon talk?

 

I get squat from shooting revo in ipsc.  There are not enough revo shooters @ L3’s to even get ranked or anything, I go to have fun and to practice for ICORE.  That’s more our game.  
 

I just don’t see the issue with removing divisions.  Up here IPSC keeps on adding more, like PO (prod. Optics) and PO light for those with plastic guns.

 

 

[Seancass]

I'd shoot revolver if more people did it.

I'd shoot revolver if more people did it!

 

I'd shoot revolver is more people did it!!

 

I'd shoot revolver if

if

if

if

[Acclaym]

I wonder how many folks who started shooting revo just had one fit for competition laying around so a holster and clips wasn't a huge leap. I can't see dropping 1k just to get started in that division. I'm in the "don't want to buy more gear" camp,  personally. 

[Bosshoss]

2 hours ago, RJH said:

I despise having a division so that a few extra people get a participation ribbon idea, which is all revolver is at this point.

 

Also, you still haven't answered. What in your opinion Is the lowest number that we should continually have a national match for? If revolver gets down to 10, do we still have Nationals for it? Or is the big number of 30 enough? Remember, this is your opinion not what USPSA is doing. Also, remember there's nothing keeping revolver shooters from shooting production. It's not like we're going to send you home with your revolver never to get to shoot again.

 

If I was committed to a division and all it could draw was 30 people at Nationals, I would figure it was a joke and find a new division. But, I'm not a zealot.

Really I have been avoiding this thread because some just don't get it.

Participation ribbons WTH I have shot Revolver many times at level 2 matches and there have not been enough shooters to recognize the division. I paid the same as everyone else and paid travel expenses and motels just like everyone else and shot for FUN as there was no ribbons involved. No nothing just shoot for fun. 

As the saying goes if we have to explain it you just don't understand it.

The National thing doesn't matter as there has never been a stand alone Revolver nationals it is always tagged on at the end of or during other division nationals.

I don't care what division you shoot and I care even less that you are worried about Revolver shooters.

 

Also you still haven't answered how or why killing off Revolver would help USPSA.

[RJH]

If y'all are shooting for fun and don't get a ribbon, why not just shoot your revo in production or open for that matter. 

 

If you don't kill off underperforming divisions (revo is the poster child for underperforming  divisions) then you might as well have a division for every whim that people have. Killing off revo would help streamline uspsa and more than likely save uspsa money. Renting a range and organizing match staff, hotels etc, probably cost more than the 30 people at nationals pay in fees. Revolver division is a joke. Even if you forget about nationals,  any division that can't draw an average of 10 shooters at area matches can't be taken seriously.  TEN shooters is too much to ask of the revolver faithful,think about that.  So there is a reason or 2 

 

Also, revo nats has been much more stand alone than CO, PCC, limited, and production.  If USPSA coupled revo nationals with any of those divisions, you would probably get the 12 shooters that revo was getting before it had nationals stuck on the end of single stack with the specific idea of drawing in more revo shooters. It worked for a while but the numbers are dropping again. 

 

Funny that no one will answer at what point a division should be killed off, maybe because you know in any reasonable metric, revolver should be done away with. Probably l10 too.  

[SGT_Schultz]

44 minutes ago, RJH said:

 Killing off revo would help streamline uspsa and more than likely save uspsa money. Renting a range and organizing match staff, hotels etc, probably cost more than the 30 people at nationals pay in fees. Revolver division is a joke. Even if you forget about nationals,  any division that can't draw an average of 10 shooters at area matches can't be taken seriously.  TEN shooters is too much to ask of the revolver faithful,think about that.  So there is a reason or 2 

 

Also, revo nats has been much more stand alone than CO, PCC, limited, and production.  If USPSA coupled revo nationals with any of those divisions, you would probably get the 12 shooters that revo was getting before it had nationals stuck on the end of single stack with the specific idea of drawing in more revo shooters. It worked for a while but the numbers are dropping again. 

 

Funny that no one will answer at what point a division should be killed off, maybe because you know in any reasonable metric, revolver should be done away with. Probably l10 too.  

 

USPSA's infrastructure and labor costs will not decrease one cent if rev is gone.

 

I don't follow which nationals are held in conjunction with which.

 

You don't shoot revolver, and based on the feedback of others in this thread it doesn't seem that your opinion of their chosen division matters any.  So it's probably you who shouldn't be taken seriously at this point.

 

As long as someone in the country wants to shoot it, keep it going. 

[RJH]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

USPSA's infrastructure and labor costs will not decrease one cent if rev is gone.

 

I don't follow which nationals are held in conjunction with which.

 

You don't shoot revolver, and based on the feedback of others in this thread it doesn't seem that your opinion of their chosen division matters any.  So it's probably you who shouldn't be taken seriously at this point.

 

As long as someone in the country wants to shoot it, keep it going. 

 

You're right i don't shoot revolver ANYMORE, but  i am classified in revolver and shot it quite a bit in the past. But since there is no realistic amount of competition at any level from local to nationals i have chosen to move to divisions that actually have other people in them to shoot against. I guess i am not a huge fan of playing with myself lol. 

 

Don't forget, this thread started by eliciting opinions,  and a good rule of thumb is don't ask a question that you don't really want answered. And you don't have to take me seriously, but no one takes revolver seriously anymore and no one will unless there is some growth at major matches.  That said,  many or most majors don't even recognize revolver because match directors know it is a joke and not worth typing "revolver division" in the match book cause no one is shooting it anyway. See, eliminating revo saved them some ink, one more reason to get rid of revolver haha

 

 

 

 

 

 

[perttime]

         

[JonasAberg]

I'd be open to trying it but getting a(ny) firearm license is somewhat costly and time consuming in this country. I'm also at a point where I'm thinking "yeah I could get <firearm X> but that translates to two years worth of 9mm".

 

I guess the bottom line for me is cost. If I had more money I'd probably get a revolver, maybe even compete in club matches every now and then but don't see myself getting into it in a big way.

[jcc7x7]

Just bought another revo for icore L6.

So it doesn't take much for me to shoot revolver!

[IHAVEGAS]

11 hours ago, RJH said:

 

You're right i don't shoot revolver ANYMORE, but  i am classified in revolver and shot it quite a bit in the past. But since there is no realistic amount of competition at any level from local to nationals i have chosen to move to divisions that actually have other people in them to shoot against. I guess i am not a huge fan of playing with myself lol. 

 

To each their own. I normally shoot production and am a B class hacker, I think you said you were also a B class hacker with the bottom feeders so it ain't like we are shooting the lights out or even competitive with the good shooters.

 

A good friend shots the wheel gun routinely & is a GM, he pays just as much attention to his score and who he beats as the next shooter, only difference is he is looking at the overall. It is fun to compete against him with the production gun, sometimes I win sometimes I don't, when I bring the wheel gun , no way. 

[IVC]

On 2/12/2020 at 8:35 AM, MikeBurgess said:

I think Revo is for most people a secondary division, something they will shoot if a good opportunity presents itself, SS is similar in this respect (look at SS nationals participation vs regular club level participation) I think the problem with participation in the last 2 nationals was shooters had to choose to shoot Revo over either limited or SS,...

This right here ^^^

 

Revolver is a great secondary division and many more would shoot it if there was an easy way to shoot it in addition to their primary division. Also, revolvers are a really good practice for trigger control, as well as a set of generic skills that are fun to possess.

[RJH]

56 minutes ago, IVC said:

 many more would shoot it if there was an easy way to shoot it in addition to their primary division

 

Sorry but that is pure speculation.   I see many people shoot PCC as a secondary division, but I have literally never seen anyone shoot revolver in conjunction with any other gun at  a USPSA match.  Some of our locals allow people to shoot in 2 divisions and I have seen pretty much every combo possible EXCEPT revolver and anything else.

[revoman]

20 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Sorry but that is pure speculation.   I see many people shoot PCC as a secondary division, but I have literally never seen anyone shoot revolver in conjunction with any other gun at  a USPSA match.  Some of our locals allow people to shoot in 2 divisions and I have seen pretty much every combo possible EXCEPT revolver and anything else.

May I ask what division do you shoot in?

Edited February 13, 2020 by revoman

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, revoman said:

May I ask what division do you shoot in?

 

Currently limited, but have classified in all but CO.  Started a long time ago in l10, cause that is what I had, then went to production for some time but tired of it, so i switched to  SS and shot it for some time but as the field dried up i switched limited which has always had a large following in this area.  I shot a little open and pcc in there too.  I shot revolver more than PCC, open and Carry ops combined, but not as much as L10, limited, production of SS.  In this part of the world limited and open have always had a decent following and CO is big right now too.  While the other divisions have ebbed and flowed over time it seems that open and limited is where it is at here, but i do think CO is going to keep a strong following.

 

All that to say I shoot limited, but am not married to any one division.  And I have switched divisions more than once as they died out in my area

[cas]

You know... all the divisions are hurting the other divisions. 

 

 

I'd go back to revolver if someone done gimmie a gun!