Magnets on belts

[Stafford]

Noticed for the first time last night that some guys were running magnets on their belts. We had a stage where all the mags had to be on barrels. During the walk through, guys were practicing putting one on their belt magnet and pretending to insert one in their hand. 

 

Pretty cool for the game and speed, but not realistic. Interesting.

[broadside72]

They can be cool but not legal in all divisions

[Rnlinebacker]

Noticed for the first time last night that some guys were running magnets on their belts. We had a stage where all the mags had to be on barrels. During the walk through, guys were practicing putting one on their belt magnet and pretending to insert one in their hand. 
 
Pretty cool for the game and speed, but not realistic. Interesting.

That's why it's a game lol

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[MemphisMechanic]

50 minutes ago, Stafford said:

Pretty cool for the game and speed, but not realistic. Interesting.

Doing things in USPSA matches that are legal is extremely realistic for shooting USPSA matches, which is what USPSA is intended to make you good at.

 

We’re all missing your point.  

USPSA will teach you gunhandling and movement skills that are superb to what you will develop anywhere else.

 

But you can’t learn or execute tactics realistically on the clock in a sport, and USPSA doesn’t bother to pretend to try.

 

That’s the best thing about it.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[MikeBurgess]

1 hour ago, Stafford said:

Noticed for the first time last night that some guys were running magnets on their belts. We had a stage where all the mags had to be on barrels. During the walk through, guys were practicing putting one on their belt magnet and pretending to insert one in their hand. 

 

Pretty cool for the game and speed, but not realistic. Interesting.

Outside of marksmanship and gun handling what about our game IS realistic?

 

PS IDPA is not really any more realistic either. 

 

 

[Balakay]

1 hour ago, Stafford said:

Noticed for the first time last night that some guys were running magnets on their belts....

Either you have not shot many matches or are not very observant.  In my area, almost  everyone who is serious about USPSA and shoots a division that allows a magnet, uses a magnet

[Stafford]

42 minutes ago, Balakay said:

Either you have not shot many matches or are not very observant.  In my area, almost  everyone who is serious about USPSA and shoots a division that allows a magnet, uses a magnet

No, I've not shot many matches (5 maybe?). More focused on what to do for the stage, keeping my finger off the trigger, not sweeping the barrel, etc.... 

[racerba]

having to pick up mags from a barrel isn't realistic either...

 

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, Stafford said:

Noticed for the first time last night that some guys were running magnets on their belts. We had a stage where all the mags had to be on barrels. During the walk through, guys were practicing putting one on their belt magnet and pretending to insert one in their hand. 

 

Pretty cool for the game and speed, but not realistic. Interesting.

What division do you shoot? Might be a moot point to even ask.

[Stafford]

4 minutes ago, Sarge said:

What division do you shoot? Might be a moot point to even ask.

Shooting Limited Minor (G17) with my regular belt and kydex belt holster. So far, I've invested nothing toward USPSA as far as gear. Using a double mag pouch that I bought for an IDPA match. Will probably shoot another IDPA match and kind of get an idea if I'm going to focus more on one than the other. I did buy a 21 round p mag that comes in handy for Limited. So, I guess that's my one gear purchase for USPSA.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Stafford

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, Stafford said:

Shooting Limited Minor (G17) with my regular belt and kydex belt holster. So far, I've invested nothing toward USPSA as far as gear. Using a double mag pouch that I bought for an IDPA match. Will probably shoot another IDPA match and kind of get an idea if I'm going to focus more on one than the other. I did buy a 21 round p mag that comes in handy for Limited. So, I guess that's my one gear purchase for USPSA.

Good to go with a magnet then. And good magnets like the DAA will hold OEM Glock mags just fine because they are metal sleeved. 

[belus]

3 hours ago, Stafford said:

Shooting Limited Minor (G17) with my regular belt and kydex belt holster. So far, I've invested nothing toward USPSA as far as gear. Using a double mag pouch that I bought for an IDPA match. Will probably shoot another IDPA match and kind of get an idea if I'm going to focus more on one than the other. I did buy a 21 round p mag that comes in handy for Limited. So, I guess that's my one gear purchase for USPSA.

 

I think you're going about this right. Test the waters and experiment with you have available before dropping a lot of cash.

 

If I were you, my next shooting USPSA investment to consider would be a Dillon 550. It'll probably have a bigger impact on your shooting than any other gadget.

[pjb45]

On 10/18/2019 at 7:12 AM, MikeBurgess said:

Outside of marksmanship and gun handling what about our game IS realistic?

 

PS IDPA is not really any more realistic either. 

 

 

• There was a Tempe SWAT officer quoted in a national magazine that talked about stress and its effects. 
• People in IDPA (not a fan) and USPSA matches put themselves in a stressful situation and try to perform simple tasks under stress. 
• Stress is where fine motor skills start to degrade. 
• I do agree that our game is not tactical training or realistic in those regards.

[nickforney]

I saw magnets and though hell thats great.  I used it in training all the time for my unloading or my barney mag.  Didn't realize it was a no go for carry optics though so I shot in open class that day.  I have one on my limited setup though and it is good for that use you just mentioned.  

I have a pretty strong little magnet I got at work.  I put it in my back pocket out on the range now and am curious if I could have it in there not to affix mags for use in a stage but to slap my mag on at the unload and show clear.

[HCH]

On 10/22/2019 at 7:17 PM, nickforney said:

I saw magnets and though hell thats great.  I used it in training all the time for my unloading or my barney mag.  Didn't realize it was a no go for carry optics though so I shot in open class that day.  I have one on my limited setup though and it is good for that use you just mentioned.  

I have a pretty strong little magnet I got at work.  I put it in my back pocket out on the range now and am curious if I could have it in there not to affix mags for use in a stage but to slap my mag on at the unload and show clear.

 

I’m going to say that would be a no in Pro/CO. “Magnets may not be retained by magnetic means” and the COF ends at “range is clear”, so you would be using the magnet during the COF. 

 

I don't agree with the rule, but that’s the rule.  

[Sarge]

8 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

I’m going to say that would be a no in Pro/CO. “Magnets may not be retained by magnetic means” and the COF ends at “range is clear”, so you would be using the magnet during the COF. 

 

I don't agree with the rule, but that’s the rule.  

Correct. Keep magnets at home when shooting divisions that don’t allow them. In actuality the rule does not mention course of fire so mags on magnets would be illegal at any time.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Sarge

[vluc]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Correct. Keep magnets at home when shooting divisions that don’t allow them. In actuality the rule does not mention course of fire so mags on magnets would be illegal at any time.

 

I'd like to see a definitive on this one from Troy.  My thoughts are along your lines, Sarge, but don't want to get into a piddling contest with a shooter over it.

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, vluc said:

 

I'd like to see a definitive on this one from Troy.  My thoughts are along your lines, Sarge, but don't want to get into a piddling contest with a shooter over it.

Agreed! It’s certainly not hurting anything to have a mag on a magnet while walking around outside a COF. On the other hand the rule seems to be written without regard to being during COF only. 

[vluc]

7 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Agreed! It’s certainly not hurting anything to have a mag on a magnet while walking around outside a COF. On the other hand the rule seems to be written without regard to being during COF only. 

 

I wrote to ask him, we'll see what he has to say.

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, vluc said:

 

I wrote to ask him, we'll see what he has to say.

[vluc]

He referred me back to 6.2.5.1 

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared handgun Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. If a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements for PCC or Open Division during the course of fire, he will shoot for no score.

 

Appendixes for Production, SS and CO all clearly state under section 20:

• Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means.

 

Since it clearly states in 6.2.5.1 that it is during the course of fire that a magazine cannot be retained by a magnet, I have to go with they can use it anytime before and after, but not during.

[nickforney]

It makes a direct call for allowing barney mags to be loaded from a pocket though as well which flies in the face of being contained within a magazine pouch right?

[Sarge]

35 minutes ago, nickforney said:

It makes a direct call for allowing barney mags to be loaded from a pocket though as well which flies in the face of being contained within a magazine pouch right?

No. If you dig deeper in the rules pockets are allowed as long as they meet location requirements.

 

5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1). 5.2.4.1 Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point will be allowed providing they are not removed from the apparel pocket(s) between the “standby” command and the command “if clear, hammer down and holster”. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty).

Edited October 25, 2019 by Sarge

[nickforney]

Yea I wasn't clear sarge.  I meant to expand that a location for carry optic forward of the hip line is easily enforced for use of barney or start mag and after stage for showing clear.  I don't believe it will change and the sport need not cater to me but I shoot in golf shorts most of the time and pockets are tough to get to.  Its best to just drop the mag or slap it into a mag carrier.  Might all be null and void anyway as my limited gun has been a lot of fun to shoot lately.

 

[shred]

10 hours ago, vluc said:

 

I wrote to ask him, we'll see what he has to say.

 

Troy answered just this question back in April on the NROI web page-- https://nroi.org/rules-qa/magnet-use-in-co-prod-ss/

 

Key points:

Quote

A magnet can be on your belt for Production, Carry Optics, or Single Stack divisions, but it must be in the correct position, behind the point of the hip. If it’s on the front of the belt, during a course of fire, it’s a violation of division rules and a bump to Open.

 

Second, a magazine may be retained on the magnet, but not after Make Ready, and not before Range Is Clear. Where the other range commands come into play in your scenario makes no sense. Taking a magazine from a magnet, or having a magazine on a magnet at Make Ready is a bump to Open. Same thing applies when clearing the gun–you may not go to the magnet with a magazine until after Range is Clear.