dmshozer1 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 At a local USPSA match there were two shooters that would put their glasses on only when shooting. I waited for the RO to tell them to keep them on. He did not so I told them to put them on. Lasted for one stage and off they came after they shot. Went the rest of the match that way. The RO was also the match directer. Should they have been DQed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Someone should point out to the RO/MD that they will be part of any injury law suit and will have to explain why they didn't enforce safety rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5.4.1 All persons on the range potentially exposed to ricochet debris or bullet fragments are required to wear eye protection. All persons on the range where the sound of firearms being fired may potentially cause hearing damage are required to wear or use adequate hearing protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said: At a local USPSA match there were two shooters that would put their glasses on only when shooting. Should they have been DQed? Not DQ’ed but I would have told them to keep them on or leave the range. THEN if they wanted to argue I would have considered 10.6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5.4 and 10.6 are pretty clear. Problem is an MD/RM that wont enforce rules or is afraid of "Special" people and wont send them home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKorn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Sarge said: Not DQ’ed but I would have told them to keep them on or leave the range. THEN if they wanted to argue I would have considered 10.6? As the RO, I’d probably tell them to put them on, give them one reminder if I saw them again with them off, and then call the RM if it happened a third time. If they argued, I’d call the RM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 hours ago, dmshozer1 said: At a local USPSA match Was that at Dutchess County ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Was that at Dutchess County ? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Jeez, with the number of times I've been knicked by frag from steel shot by another shooter, I wouldn't even think of stepping into a bay with shooting going on without eyepro. Heck, I learned how to wear contacts just so I could wear wraparound non-prescription lenses rather than my regular eyeglasses, which leave the sides of my eyes exposed. WTF are these morons thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I won't even stand sideways when someone is shooting. These guys are just asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 7:39 PM, dmshozer1 said: Should they have been DQed? DQ'ed under what rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, mreed911 said: DQ'ed under what rule? That is what I asked, Is there a rule where they could be DQed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, mreed911 said: DQ'ed under what rule? Either 10.3.1 or 10.6.1 would cover the OPs scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said: That is what I asked, Is there a rule where they could be DQed? Understood - it's just that a lot of people jump to "DQ" without understanding you cannot DQ someone without a rule that allows it. As someone else mentioned, 10.3.1 might hold up, but it's not explicit given that 5.4.1 talks about "all persons" and the rest of 5.4 applies "during a course of fire." I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm saying that there's some discretion there. The RM and MD should have a talk where the RM reminds the MD of the safety regulations... and enforces them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, mreed911 said: DQ'ed under what rule? 5.4 Eye and Ear Protection 5.4.1 All persons near an area potentially exposed to ricochet debris or bullet fragments are required to wear eye protection. All persons near an area where the sound of firearms being fired may potentially cause hearing damage are required to wear adequate hearing protection. 5.4.2 If a Range Officer deems that a competitor about to make an attempt at a course of fire is wearing inadequate eye or ear protection, the Range Officer may order the competitor to rectify the situation before allowing the competitor to continue. The Range Master is the final authority on this matter. Honestly I’m surprised it’s even being asked. I’ve never been to a shooting range would would allow people onto their bays without eye & ear protection. If the MD isn’t taking action, I’d let the range owners know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, mreed911 said: As someone else mentioned, 10.3.1 might hold up, but it's not explicit given that 5.4.1 talks about "all persons" and the rest of 5.4 applies "during a course of fire." I'm thinking that "during a course of fire" would apply to everyone on the range at that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10.6.1 specifically the portion that says "failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official," pretty hard to argue that following the rules is a unreasonable direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, CSEMARTIN said: I'm thinking that "during a course of fire" would apply to everyone on the range at that stage. How do you DQ a non-competitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, mreed911 said: How do you DQ a non-competitor? 10.6.2 Other persons may be expelled from the range for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unacceptable. Examples of unacceptable conduct include, but are not limited to, failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, interference with the operation of a course of fire and/or a competitor’s attempt thereof, and any other behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfine Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Should we take a poll of people hit by fragments even when back from the stage? I would suggest pulling the RO or someone aside to let them know. Then they can "notice" it and ask them to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, lfine said: Should we take a poll of people hit by fragments even when back from the stage? I would suggest pulling the RO or someone aside to let them know. Then they can "notice" it and ask them to comply. Did you read OP's post? "The RO was also the match directer." The only other person to go to is the RM, who might also be the same person (but shouldn't be). After that, it's the actual range staff. For all the arguments we have on here about DQ's, it's funny to see people jump straight to DQ here. Safety violation? Sure. Something a competitor can do anything about if the RO/MD aren't willing to enforce USPSA rules? Beyond contacting their Area Director, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 8.3.1: “Make Ready” .....competitor must.....fit eye and hearing protection ...... Is it smart to walk around without eye pro? No. I’d be hard pressed to DQ someone for walking around the range without it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, HCH said: 8.3.1: “Make Ready” .....competitor must.....fit eye and hearing protection ...... Is it smart to walk around without eye pro? No. I’d be hard pressed to DQ someone for walking around the range without it though. How about if you told them twice and they still did not do it for the rest of the 5 stages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Aside from a DQ under USPSA rules, a decent club would insist on eyes and ears for everyone on the range when any shooting is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, mreed911 said: How do you DQ a non-competitor? you don't have to dq them, just eject them from the range. At our range, you are simply not allowed to be there without eye protection. period. Has nothing to do with USPSA. Edited June 5, 2019 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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